The Wink home automation thread

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm posting more info over in the Smarthome thread, but as a quickie - Samsung did unveil a newer SmartThings hub:

http://blog.smartthings.com/news/smartthings-updates/new-hub-sensors-optional-services-integrations/

Key features:

* All IoT components and devices will be open; others can easily connect to their devices
* Local app engine
* Built-in backup battery power
* Expanded cellular connectivity
* New protocols including Bluetooth Smart
* Optional premium service that will offer advanced incident management control & improved home monitoring through DVR video streaming
* SmartThings is an open platform & supports a lot of new devices: Netgear cameras, D-Link cameras, Somfy window shades, Racchio water irrigation system, Chamberlain garage door openers, August locks, Weatherbug climate data, Samsung smart appliances

Specifically:



Wink, you have 4 months

The battery backup, while nice, has limited usage because many (probably most) of the devices you're controlling won't have battery backup, so you're going to have a hub running with nothing to control. I have a small, spare UPS and was about to use it for my Wink hub and then thought "Hey, wait a minute..."

No mention of the hardwired Ethernet port that is rumored but the local app engine is mentioned and spells doom for competitors IMO unless they get their act together. As you mentioned, adding some local processing/caching capability to the Wink is easily possible so I won't be surprised if we see a half-assed implementation from Wink in the next couple of months as a response.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Do you have a link from where you read that. If that is true then they really are crazy, I would buy more Hue lights if they would work with shortcuts and robots!

https://twitter.com/thewinkapp/status/542788264122654720

IOT would be alot better off if companies would be more transparent and open, its good to see Samsung taking steps in that direction. It is impossible to get answers from people about whether or not their devices will be Homekit certified... even if they have already announced partnerships with apple they won't tell you if the existing products will work (Chamberlin MyQ)

Indeed, SmartThings emphasizing "open platform" gives me a lot of hope. I wonder if I should eBay my Wink hub now while I can still get a few dollars.

 

[brinkbart]

The battery backup, while nice, has limited usage because many (probably most) of the devices you're controlling won't have battery backup, so you're going to have a hub running with nothing to control. I have a small, spare UPS and was about to use it for my Wink hub and then thought "Hey, wait a minute..."

If you have a Chaimberlain with a a battery backup as I do, or any deadbolt lock that uses batteries, you can still get into your home when the power's out!

Also, if your battery-backed-up hub is the thing responsible for alerting you if your smoke detectors go off, or unlocking all the doors if it detects a fire, I would like the peace of mind. To me, those are the most critical (and marketable, as it turns out!)

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you have a Chaimberlain with a a battery backup as I do, or any deadbolt lock that uses batteries, you can still get into your home when the power's out!

Also, if your battery-backed-up hub is the thing responsible for alerting you if your smoke detectors go off, or unlocking all the doors if it detects a fire, I would like the peace of mind. To me, those are the most critical (and marketable, as it turns out!)

Yeah, I suppose so. I still don't trust any door locks or garage door access via one of these cloud-based hubs though, so for me, it wouldn't really mean much unfortunately.

 

[brinkbart]

Yeah, I suppose so. I still don't trust any door locks or garage door access via one of these cloud-based hubs though, so for me, it wouldn't really mean much unfortunately.

Understood.

 

[GdgtSam]

If you have a Chaimberlain with a a battery backup as I do, or any deadbolt lock that uses batteries, you can still get into your home when the power's out!

Also, if your battery-backed-up hub is the thing responsible for alerting you if your smoke detectors go off, or unlocking all the doors if it detects a fire, I would like the peace of mind. To me, those are the most critical (and marketable, as it turns out!)

Something to consider with this however is that the Chamberlain MyQ and Nest require internet access for those functions to work, so you would also need to have your router/modem on backup power as well for those to continue working.

 

[Kaido]

Do you have a link from where you read that. If that is true then they really are crazy, I would buy more Hue lights if they would work with shortcuts and robots!

From a Wink Relay review:

http://www.amazon.com/Wink-Relay-Sma...ews/B00MU6GLT6

REALLY disappointed to learn (after spending over an hour on hold waiting for support rep) that Wink has a special, contractual agreement with Philips to omit several key features of the Wink platform when it comes to Philips Hue bulbs. The ONLY thing that the Wink platform is authorized to do is turn INDIVIDUAL lights on/off, change color, dim setting. NO grouping, NO robots, NO shortcuts. And according to the support rep with whom I spoke, there is no plan to change this. Wink Relay and Hub going right back to Amazon! So terribly disappointing...

Thanks for providing this feedback - I was looking into this item recently, and didn't even notice that grouping isn't allowed for Hue products in the Wink app. What a total PITA. Changes my opinion on this $300 immediately.

Such a shame Philips has to act this way - it's already borderline ridiculous paying $70 for a single light bulb. It'd be far more justifiable if it was open to other products and therefor future-proof (isn't that what z-wave is all about??)

I have the same combo. This may aid in my decision on what to do with the relay also. I love my hue bulbs and they work great but i do miss not being able to do anything worthwhile with wink.

Likewise, Lutron has a whitelist on the Wink Hub: (Wordpress is blocked here, so you'll have to enter the address manually)

http://winkhubroot. wordpress. com/2014/09/03/wink-lutron/

Next, we see there is a table called SupportedDevices. What’s this, a WHITELIST?! And only 13 out of the 35 possible devices on it!?

Essentially, the Lutron subsystem inside the Wink Hub appears to be more or less a Caseta Smart Bridge (Pro) running on shared hardware. And of course it is easy to guess what the difference between the Pro and standard Smart Bridge is (*cough*whitelist*cough*). The Caseta Smart Bridge, then, appears to be based on the Clear Connect Gateway which Lutron makes for AMX and explains why all those RA2 devices descriptions exist in the database.

Another interesting table is BusinessRules. Inside we find properties MaxNumberOfDevices 50 and MaxNumberOfRepeaters 1. So maybe these could come in handy if we build a large network of Lutron devices assuming we don’t run into other memory constraints.

I understand that there are business agreements, but how moronic is it to limit functionality when you're only going to have ONE hub in your home? I'm not going to buy a Lutron Smart Bridge AND a Wink Hub. Not to mention the Philips Hue bulbs requires their own hub (the Hue Bridge, which converts the ZigBee Hue bulbs to Wifi, which I believe is what third-party systems like Wink connects to via their API, rather than interfacing directly with the ZigBee standard). It is possible to connect directly to the Hue bulbs, like with a SmartThings system, but that's not without its issues:

http://community.smartthings.com/t/hue-bulb-without-hue-hub/3323/6

I'm VERY impressed with Samsung's statement yesterday that all of their smart devices & appliances will be open:

http://gizmodo.com/samsung-our-smart-home-wont-be-a-walled-garden-1677661998

If you're going to castrate your product when used with a third-party control system, like Hue does with Wink, I'm not going to support you by purchasing them. That's partly why I've been hesitant to invest in more Wink Certified equipment...will any of Wink's new made-for-Wink gear that they sell themselves work with other systems if I want to switch? Why doesn't Schlage have full integration in the system? Why can't I use my Pico remote for other things? This sums it up nicely:

http://community.smartthings.com/t/wink-hub-for-a-buck-starting-7-2-post-your-experience/3124/84

I also grabbed a Lutron Pico remote, figuring it would be a cheaper method to let the kids control their Hue bulbs than the Hue Tap. No luck. I can pair it to the Wink hub, but there is not way to assign it's buttons to anything. The app just says I don't have any Lutron devices paired. What's the point of having a hub if it can't let you link the different devices it supports? I'll probably keep it around and see where they go, but I am not impressed.

Yes, I understand there are company agreements, but how stupid is it to have an amazing wireless remote that can only control one branded piece of a multi-brand smarthome? That Pico remote would be awesome for controlling stuff like ceiling fans, Hue lights, and Somfy motorized blinds, especially since it has multiple buttons, but nope - limited. Ridiculous.

 

[Kaido]

Hmm, no mention of Lutron in there... I wonder if Smartthings can integrate with the Lutron Bridge?

I believe they mentioned multiple new wireless protocols, including Bluetooth Smart, so I'm hoping they have stuff like the Kidde smoke alarm radio & Lutron's ClearConnect, as well as the typical ZigBee, Zwave, and Wifi stuff.

It'd be nice if the Hub were modular, so you could just add new radios as new tech comes out (ex. Somfy's RTS system), or only buy the USB radio sticks you need to support the equipment that you have....that would make it SO simple!

 

[Kaido]

The battery backup, while nice, has limited usage because many (probably most) of the devices you're controlling won't have battery backup, so you're going to have a hub running with nothing to control. I have a small, spare UPS and was about to use it for my Wink hub and then thought "Hey, wait a minute..."

No mention of the hardwired Ethernet port that is rumored but the local app engine is mentioned and spells doom for competitors IMO unless they get their act together. As you mentioned, adding some local processing/caching capability to the Wink is easily possible so I won't be surprised if we see a half-assed implementation from Wink in the next couple of months as a response.

Yeah, I think it's more for alarm integration...like wireless door sensors that last for 12 months or whatever, those can talk to the battery-run Hub, which can then communicate to your smartphone & the alarm company via 3G.

At the very least, the Wink/GE/Home Depot partnership created some kindling to spark the fire for the DIY smarthome revolution...and Samsung is great at cloning ideas, filling in the gaps, making them better, and selling it cheaper, so I'm actually looking forward to what they have to offer in April!

 

[Kaido]

Yeah, I suppose so. I still don't trust any door locks or garage door access via one of these cloud-based hubs though, so for me, it wouldn't really mean much unfortunately.

Yeah, can you imagine a glitch that unlocks all of your doors & opens your garage door when you're not home? And glitches aside, if big companies like Target, Home Depot, and Staples can get hacked, imagine how easy it is to hack a little company like Wink. Or even hack a big company like Samsung (SmartThings)...just look at Sony. All it takes is one disgruntled employee or an enterprising script kiddie finding a beloved patriot in the armor to wreck havoc. Which again, is why I won't pair any cameras to a cloud-based system...at least it's only system data & basic control access if it gets hacked & not a livestream of my house, you know? Scary stuff.

 

[Kaido]

https://twitter.com/thewinkapp/status/542788264122654720

Indeed, SmartThings emphasizing "open platform" gives me a lot of hope. I wonder if I should eBay my Wink hub now while I can still get a few dollars.

And to be fair, I don't think most of the integration is Wink's fault...if Philips won't release full functionality for their API, there's nothing they can do about it legally, so they're just as stuck as we are.

Again, if Wink offered offline support (which hackers have already succeed in doing, and which has much better response performance for sending commands than the cloud/cache mode does now), that would be a big step in the right direction. I like my system. I deal with the occasional hiccups. But I'd be a lot more interested in continuing down this path if it hadn't already been six months - 6 months of historical bugs & not much progress. I dunno. Maybe I'm being too critical. But I'm definitely open to other platforms (SmartThings in particular)...

 

[TexasWinkUser]

There is an iOS activity log, but mine is empty. It's buried in a weird spot (under Sensors, click the 3 little dots in the top right, and activity is there).

I also have one tripper reporting a nearly dead battery after being installed for about only 4 days.

My robots have generally been working better after rebooting the hub on Saturday. Though for some reason now, I can't get my outside GE Link bulb to turn on via robot.

Does anybody have an issue when opening the wink app on iOS where it doesn't list the sensors at all, and then they show up on the app screen about 5-10 seconds later?

 

[nyvram]

Yeah, I suppose so. I still don't trust any door locks or garage door access via one of these cloud-based hubs though, so for me, it wouldn't really mean much unfortunately.

having had wink running for a solid month with the following devices i can give you my thoughts:

- chamberlain myQ
- schalge deadbolt
- honeywell wifi thermostats (2)
- GE link 60w bulbs (2)

Honeywell intergration is damn useless. I use the honeywell app instead.

Chamberlain is useful for the shortcuts to open & close garage but thats about it. you cant do anything meaningful like have wink notify you if the garage door has been open X amount of time. what a joke. that should have been baked into the first version of this.

Deadbolt has performed almost flawlessly for me however its another joke that wink REFUSES to allow you to schedule/detect when the deadbolt is unlocked and lock it automatically if so. A couple of times the geofenching has gone haywire (backed up on their server?) and then in the middle of the night the triggers from earlier in the day kick in REPEATEDELY so i hear the deabolt lock & unlock like 6x in a row. stupid shit. I have to pick my phone up after its calmed down & check to see if its locked or not after that.

Speaking of stupidity, the older veriosn of the wink app had a workaround where i could SCHEDULE A GE LIGHT to turn off at 11PM and use that as a trigger to also lock my front door. after showing people on several forums how they could do this...the WINK GODS removed that functionality from the latest android app.

my older robot (created in older app) still works, but the new app doesn't list the lights in the 'trigger' section of robots.

why in the world would you remove something that was actually useful in the app?

I DONT CARE ABOUT TURNING LIGHTS ON WITH MY PHONE. I ***DO*** care whether my garage and deadbolt were accidently left open for 2 hours. Why in the world won't they add these 2 EXTREMELY BASIC features:

1. create a notification to use if it detects a door is unlocked (or garage open) for x amount of time?
2. allow you to SCHEDULE the door & garage to lock at a certain time each day ***IF*** it detects they're open.

 

[Kaido]

Does anybody have an issue when opening the wink app on iOS where it doesn't list the sensors at all, and then they show up on the app screen about 5-10 seconds later?

Yeah, I've had that happen occasionally - it's like it's pulling the latest inventory list of your equipment off Wink's servers or something.

 

[Kaido]

having had wink running for a solid month with the following devices i can give you my thoughts:

...

why in the world would you remove something that i finally found useful in the app?

Like I said...it's been out since July 2014. I keep reading about half-baked features & command hiccups like this. Hundreds of people have taken to the review comments section of Home Depot & Amazon to complain. At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'm pretty sure offline functionality would solve a lot of these concerns. Plus, you don't want issues when you buy this system. Can you imagine a non-techie shop guy buying a bunch of this gear, and then:

1. Scheduling works...sometimes. Geofencing works...sometimes.
2. Commands have a delay.
3. Stuff like locks & lights only have limited functionality, like the Pico remotes not controlling other stuff

Too many barriers. I'd hate to be the sales guy in the store - "well yeah, the Wink Hub talks to a variety of equipment, but the remote control only works with the Lutron lights and nothing else. And you'll only get limited functionality out of your MyQ, Philips Hue, Honeywell Thermostat, etc.". So part of the issue is that the manufacturers need to be open, and another part of the issue is that Quirky is firmly committed to a cloud-based solution, which obviously doesn't work well. Again, 6 months & still having issues. Quirky is quirky.

That's not to say I hate my system - I don't. I'm just very honest about my user experiences with it. In my house, I have to (1) convince my wife to let me spend part of our monthly budget on things like $20 bulbs, $50 smoke alarms, and $60 lightswitches, which then (2) don't work on schedule, sometimes don't take commands, have a lag in reacting from a button press, don't have full functionality, and not everything talks to each other (like the Pico remotes, which are awesome, just limited in software functionality). So in her mind, I'm buying expensive toys that don't work as well as the previous "non-smart" versions did. "The old lightswitch always worked when I flipped it". 'Nuff said :biggrin:

 

[SAWYER]

I havent followed any of this home automation stuff but saw the Samsung keynote yesterday where the ceo was talking about the iot(dumb term) and it has me interested. I want to do this but I think I will wait a few years for the tech to advance even more and prices to come down

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah, can you imagine a glitch that unlocks all of your doors & opens your garage door when you're not home? And glitches aside, if big companies like Target, Home Depot, and Staples can get hacked, imagine how easy it is to hack a little company like Wink. Or even hack a big company like Samsung (SmartThings)...just look at Sony. All it takes is one disgruntled employee or an enterprising script kiddie finding a beloved patriot in the armor to wreck havoc. Which again, is why I won't pair any cameras to a cloud-based system...at least it's only system data & basic control access if it gets hacked & not a livestream of my house, you know? Scary stuff.

Yeah, and I read one review somewhere (possibly on Amazon) where at least one user claimed Wink randomly unlocked his door. No thanks.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

There is an iOS activity log, but mine is empty. It's buried in a weird spot (under Sensors, click the 3 little dots in the top right, and activity is there).

The Android version has that Activity log and the other Activity log in the sensor's info page, and both are populated with the same information. On iOS, mine is also empty.

I also have one tripper reporting a nearly dead battery after being installed for about only 4 days.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one having the issue. I'm hoping maybe they shipped them with cheap batteries. I guess I'll find out in a few days if my replacement battery suddenly dies too. I haven't replaced the battery in my second unit yet but I imagine it will be completely dead today or tomorrow.

Does anybody have an issue when opening the wink app on iOS where it doesn't list the sensors at all, and then they show up on the app screen about 5-10 seconds later?

Yes, this happens to me as well.

 

[damonblumenstei]

I am trying to get a robot setup that when you turn on 1 light, it will automatically turn on another. I set it up and it works with the phone app, but it does not work when we use the physical light switch. Same thing goes for garage door opener, trying to turn the driveway lights on when I open the door, but again, it doesn't seem to work.

 

[nyvram]

Yeah, and I read one review somewhere (possibly on Amazon) where at least one user claimed Wink randomly unlocked his door. No thanks.

it didnt randomly unlock it..the events were getting backed up on the server (probably because the user kept hitting 'unlock' on his phone) and when the server finally came back online..it was a lock/unlock fest.

completely unacceptable.

all these locks are zwave and as such..wink has an absolute OBLIGATION to manage those locally on the hub. its completely irresponsible knowing that internet hiccups happen..to route a door unlock through the web possibly causing it to open later once congestion has cleared or their website is back online.

i swear to God i can write better software. handle the request on the hub locally *FIRST* and if wink is so hell-bent to also manage this on their cloud, fine. just hold onto the activity in a queue and send it later when the cloud is in sync. BE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO RE-UNLOCK THE DOOR AGAIN.

DONT FREAKING LEAVE MY DOOR UNLOCK REQUEST HANGING BECAUSE YOU INSIST ON ROUTING IT TO THE CLOUD ONLY.

stupid programming 101 that my 14 year old knows better than to do.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

it didnt randomly unlock it..the events were getting backed up on the server (probably because the user kept hitting 'unlock' on his phone) and when the server finally came back online..it was a lock/unlock fest.

completely unacceptable.

all these locks are zwave and as such..wink has an absolute OBLIGATION to manage those locally on the hub. its completely irresponsible knowing that internet hiccups happen..to route a door unlock through the web possibly causing it to open later once congestion has cleared or their website is back online.

i swear to God i can write better software. handle the request on the hub locally *FIRST* and if wink is so hell-bent to also manage this on their cloud, fine. just hold onto the activity in a queue and send it later when the cloud is in sync. BE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO RE-UNLOCK THE DOOR AGAIN.

DONT FREAKING LEAVE MY DOOR UNLOCK REQUEST HANGING BECAUSE YOU INSIST ON ROUTING IT TO THE CLOUD ONLY.

stupid programming 101 that my 14 year old knows better than to do.

Exactly -- well said.

 

[dennisj00]

Like others, I wanted the Pico remote (or any remote) to do more. Particularly for our guests that could use the remote for specific functions.

I do have a robot set up with a GE lamp to turn off from the Pico, but the Caseta switch has to be on before the robot will turn off the group.

These companies need to realize that better inter-operability will sell more product - more volume means lower costs - which will also sell more product.

Samsung's announcement sounds good but probably half of what's announced / shown at CES never sees it to the retail shelf.

Other than contracts, there's no reason Wink couldn't expand the use of those buttons on the Pico and have a 'virtual' Caseta module.

There's so much potential that's still restricted by license agreements and inadequate software. Wink can certainly expand the second part.

 

[MjnMixael]

I read about the Philips Hue contractual No Robots thing... So I released my inner nerd's full fury.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBdrHdY20Vc

Using an old phone, the Wink app, and Tasker, I automated my Hue lightstrips for a theater room I'm building.

Soon I'll do the same with my Harmony Hub. (One example, when I hit the 'Away' or 'Night Shutdown' shortcuts in Wink.. make sure the TV system is turned off.)

 

[Kneedragger]

Any of you guys try this yet? https://electronichamsters.wordpres...k-hub-to-work-with-openhab-for-local-control/

 

[brinkbart]

Any of you guys try this yet? https://electronichamsters.wordpres...k-hub-to-work-with-openhab-for-local-control/

Not yet, but I cannot WAIT to settle in for a weekend and research/try this stuff!