The Wink home automation thread

[Kneedragger]

Wow that would suck if they constantly have server issues.

 

[Kaido]

But... Smartthings runs in the cloud. So does Revolv. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if you want an off-the-shelf automation solution that just works, then you'll need to be OK with it running in the cloud.

Otherwise, you are probably going to have to build your own system from scratch using advanced networking and tons of Raspberry Pis or something.

Anyway, my main point is that the Cloud issue is not Wink specific. You'll have to decide, then, which automation companie's security you trust more.

That's why I think a hybrid system would work the best...the settings can be mirrored from local storage to the cloud. So if you run Wink, that all runs in the cloud. If you run Indigo, that all runs locally (with remote access via port forwarding). It's not like it'd be a ton of data either...the product code (ex. Leviton switch, Chamberlain garage door opener), the MAC address (or whatever identifier they use for Zwave etc.) of the device, and any misc. info like Robots or login info.

I would prefer a synced system...the cloud keeps a main copy & acts as the relay for offsite commands (ex. open garage door while you're driving home), but if you're at home (on Wifi), it sends the commands directly to the Hub for distribution to the devices - no delay from cloud lag. From what I understand, Wink is now caching commands locally, but if the cloud goes down, then it sounds like you're still screwed, which is super lame if true.

 

[Kaido]

Wow that would suck if they constantly have server issues.

I'd definitely like some more information on it...from what I understand, a recent update added more local caching to the Wink system, but according that review (posted August 26, 2014), that isn't the case if their servers go down.

I'd be curious to know if the same thing happens if your Internet goes down...does it see it as as "network unreachable" state & work off cached data, or does it see it as "server unreachable" & completely kill access to the devices? Because that would mean you'd for sure want backup equipment installed - wall switches for your motorized blinds, a PIN number & key for your electronic deadbolt, and so on.

 

[LegendKiller]

I'd definitely like some more information on it...from what I understand, a recent update added more local caching to the Wink system, but according that review (posted August 26, 2014), that isn't the case if their servers go down.

I'd be curious to know if the same thing happens if your Internet goes down...does it see it as as "network unreachable" state & work off cached data, or does it see it as "server unreachable" & completely kill access to the devices? Because that would mean you'd for sure want backup equipment installed - wall switches for your motorized blinds, a PIN number & key for your electronic deadbolt, and so on.

How is this a surprise - everybody knows these other systems rely on centralized external servers. The big one that doesn't, from what I can see, is Vera.

 

[Muadib]

How is this a surprise - everybody knows these other systems rely on centralized external servers. The big one that doesn't, from what I can see, is Vera.

According to the following review, Vera has issues. Has that changed in the almost 2 years since it was written?
http://www.networkworld.com/article...a-3---poor-but-promising-home-automation.html

 

[Kaido]

How is this a surprise - everybody knows these other systems rely on centralized external servers. The big one that doesn't, from what I can see, is Vera.

Some do, some don't. The majority don't. Imagine spending $50k+ on a high-end system & having your house not work just because the Internet went out...

 

[Kaido]

According to the following review, Vera has issues. Has that changed in the almost 2 years since it was written?
http://www.networkworld.com/article...a-3---poor-but-promising-home-automation.html

I've heard it's gotten better, but still has issues. But it's still one of the best options on the market, despite its flaws.

 

[Kaido]

Last day for the introductory Wink sale. I bit & got a couple lightswitches, which made the Hub a dollar. I can re-use the Zwave switches with other controllers, so it's not a big loss if Wink doesn't pan out long-term.

 

[Narumi]

I was waiting a few weeks before posting here my experiences with the wink and it's implementation. My impressions after using it for a few weeks are as follows:

Pros:
1) It's dead simple to set it up. And with Lutron being a major partner there were easy to set up instructions that the app went through with you to add a switch.

2) Support is actually GOOD support. When I contacted them about some internet connectivity issue through email turn around time was about 24 hours, INCLUDING weekends. They were top notch in trying to fix the issue I had (connectivity issues) and even sent out a new hub no charge to fix the issue.

3)The app is intituitive and it's getting better every update, albit with a few hiccups too(see #2 below)

4)It's easy to control the lights and I like being able to turn the lights on and off at a given time or make sure my lights are off when they are supposed to be off.

Cons:
1) All documentation is on the app, some people may not like this

2)The app updates are hit and miss, at one point everything was working great, update happened and things broke, another update and things are fixed again. So it is a bit of a loop right now but at least it's being actively worked on.

3) Sooo many updates, yes this is a new product, but there have been at least 5 updates wince I have bought the hub over a month ago

4)So much reliability on their servers. I was in the middle of my support ticket when their servers went down. They were honest and said that they couldn't handle the load and have since added more resources to help with the issue.

5) Wireless, I would have liked to have a wired connection, but they didn't do that here. I would have gone vera if not for the sale they had going on the hub.

6)Z-wave works....kinda I knew this going in but so far its been good. I was able to add a GE z-wave receptacle and so far it works great, though I can't change its properties much...

So after a month living with 4 light switches, 1 plug-in dimmer, and the GE z-wave receptacle I am satisfied. I look forward to the integration and future updates. It may take awhile but as others have said it looks like they are at least trying to shape the product up to what it was meant to do.

 

[Kaido]

I was waiting a few weeks before posting here my experiences with the wink and it's implementation. My impressions after using it for a few weeks are as follows

Thanks for the review! That's pretty much in-line with everything I've read so far. There are a few key things I'm hoping they'll update in the existing v1.0 hardware:

1. Offline support (if servers or the Internet connection is down)
2. Web GUI & mobile Web GUI (for computers, and Blackberry & Windows phones)
3. Improved support & reliability (which they've actively been working on)

I don't mind buying special Wink Certified gear, if it means that everything "just works". But part of that is having it work if the Hub can't get online due to an outage of any kind. And being able to do it from my computer via a webpage (Chromebook, Mac, Windows, Linux, etc.) or from something other than an iOS or Android device.

I think all of those features can be added to the existing hardware if they choose to make it happen, and it would make a world of difference. Otherwise, I think Samsung is going to step in with Smart Things & blow them away with improved features & reliability, despite Wink's partnership with Home Depot - and they already have stuff like door sensors, motion detectors, leak sensors, and so on.

 

[Narumi]

Thanks for the review! That's pretty much in-line with everything I've read so far. There are a few key things I'm hoping they'll update in the existing v1.0 hardware:

Your welcome!

I agree, the server reliance is a bit of a let down but hopefully they will cache more of the settings on the hub itself as time moves on. I can only see this going forward.

Smartthings and Samsung look like a good prospect, but at the same time I have little respect for big businesses..... things just don't go the way they should and well I am a bit skeptical things will stay entirely the same. Only time will tell though.

 

[Kaido]

Your welcome!

I agree, the server reliance is a bit of a let down but hopefully they will cache more of the settings on the hub itself as time moves on. I can only see this going forward.

Smartthings and Samsung look like a good prospect, but at the same time I have little respect for big businesses..... things just don't go the way they should and well I am a bit skeptical things will stay entirely the same. Only time will tell though.

When I last talked to their tech support, they mentioned that they had added more local caching to improve the command response time (for things like turning on a lightswitch); I'm hoping that since it's an embedded Linux system, they can do a fully offline solution via some simple programming changes. Their current FAQ is very clear on the matter:

The Wink HUB requires power and internet to connect you and your smart products. If your power or internet goes out you will still be able to manually control your products but you will not be able to control them via the Wink App.

So basically, it is sold as an Internet-connected device (in the same way it is sold as being compatible with Wink Certified devices, not with guaranteed general Zwave compatibility), so for now, it is what it is. I think it would be an enormous step in the right direction to add offline support, however. As far as their device support goes, at least they say "currently" supports (that's a maybe for future support on other devices!):

What about tablets?
Currently we are focused on expanding our mobile phone support but are looking to expand support to apps that are optimized for Android and iOS tablets. Stay tuned.

Can I access my Wink products through a desktop connection?
Wink is available on Android mobile, Android Wear, and iOS. Currently, there is no desktop support.

What about mobile web?
We currently do not support mobile web access. Download the free Wink app from iTunes App Store or Google Play.

I would imagine that as Home Depot gets more Wink Certified hardware & they have more sales, they'll be able to hire some more specialists to develop things like tablet apps, Windows & Blackberry apps, browser & mobile web apps, and so on.

I'm also trying to be careful to buy stuff that (1) has broader support from other hub & controller software systems, and (2) has their own control systems built-in. For example, the Honeywell thermostats have their own app, so even if Wink turns out to be a bust, you can still control it remotely via your smartphone. Bali works with Somfy's RTS system, so you can use any of their RTS remotes & wallswitches. The Caseta dimmers I got from Lutron have their own optional central control system as well:

http://www.casetawireless.com/Pages/Products.aspx

So that way you're not hosed if one vendors doesn't pan out (Wink in this case) & can fall back on either the manufacturer's control system or some other central control system like Smart Things or Indigo. And yeah, I agree on big businesses...they can lose focus on good products & products that have a lot of potential, although Samsung does have a pretty good track record for taking products in a competitive market & adding a lot of features for a competitive price (like their smartphones & tablets).

 

[Kaido]

You know, I had a thought for either a Wink Hub version 2 or a Wink Hub "Pro" model after reading through this thread:

http://community.smartthings.com/t/lutron-caseta-support-for-led-cfl-dimming/3400

The OP said:

The biggest bummer is that Quirky's new Wink3 system and hub has Caséta support in addition to everything SmartThings supports. Are there any plans for SmartThings to support Caséta? If so, I assume this would require a new hub? or at least having the Caséta bridge in addition to the SmartThings hub.

This is a valid point - technologies change all the time. I think what would be really cool is if (1) the Wink Hub Pro included an Ethernet port for hardwiring (plus all the stuff mentioned in the post above about offline access, web GUI support, etc.), and (2) if it simply had a huge USB hub underneath for expanding the hub's capabilities.

For example, SmartThings (now by Samsung) has a really nice multi-protocol support system - but what if you want to add Caseta support? That's a sub-division of Lutron's ClearConnect technology. How do you add it? The Wink Hub has a Lutron ClearConnect radio built-in, but from what I understand, it doesn't support the other sub-divisions of the ClearConnect product line, such as RadioRA 2-based stuff like the Maestro switches (someone mentioned having Maestro switches earlier in this thread). So wouldn't it be great if you could just add the modules you needed & buy repeater hubs as necessary to cover your entire abode? Let's say that the Wink Pro Hub came with only Ethernet (for hardwiring) & a serial port (for RS232 control) built-in. Then you could add: (via USB stick)

1. Wi-fi
2. Bluetooth
3. Somfy RTS (for various blinds & drapes, like those from Bali)
4. Lutron ClearConnect for Caseta
5. Lutron ClearConnect for RadioRA 2
6. Z-wave
7. ZigBee
8. Thread (future IPv6 modified ZigBee)

Since it's running embedded Linux, it'd be a cinch to add support for that stuff, since a lot of those USB adapters already exist off-the-shelf. Plus, if only have certain devices in certain areas (for example, a Bluetooth-controlled LED light on your porch, which might be on the other side of your house & out of range from your Wink Hub), then you could add a Wink Repeater Hub & just plug in the USB adapters that you need for that location. Because as we learned earlier with the Somfy RTS to Zwave hub, sometimes it's a distance thing (35 feet max for the Somfy Zwave adapter) & you need 2 or 3 adapters to get everything talking in your home (full coverage).

Indigo Domotics is almost like that, but it requires (1) a Mac, to (2) be on 24/7 in order to work. But you can do stuff like add a USB Z-wave adapter & then control Z-wave devices, plus setup more complex controls, custom iPad interfaces, and so on. But I really don't want to do all of that...I just want to buy some stuff from Home Depot, plug it in, and have it all work, which is why I ended up purchasing the Wink Hub - it's not perfect, but it's closer than anything so far, and at $1 (bundle price), it's hard to go wrong with it!

 

[Kaido]

Going back to the Wink Hub teardown thread:

http://community.smartthings.com/t/wink-hub-teardown/3288

To quote, the "CPU is a Freescale i.MX28 @ 454Mhz, 64MB DRAM and 128MB NAND flash":

433Mhz (Kidde): PIC16F883 Microcontroller w/TI CC1101 RF Transceiver
433Mhz (Lutron): STM32L100R8 (ARM Cortex M3 @ 32Mhz w/64Kb Flash) w/same TI CC1101 RF Transceiver
Z-Wave: Sigma Designs SD3502A
Zigbee: Ember EM357 (Cortex M3 based SoC w/192Kb Flash and 12Kb RAM)
WiFi/BT: Unknown; Chip with markings "5408E3 E423B1"
Host CPU: Freescale i.MX28 @ 454Mhz
Ethernet: Part of PCB layout but not populated

That last bit is what caught my interest...they have an ETH trace on the PCB: (middle-right side in this picture)

http://scdn-discourse.r.worldssl.net/uploads/smartthings/11963/f08f247c46ddcbfe.jpg

I'm not sure how much wiggle room they have with OS, updates, etc. on 128MB of NAND, so I guess we'll see how much they can do with offline caching & whatnot, especially if they decide to add a web interface on it down the road to control from your computer (if it has to relay out to the cloud & back again, I'd imagine there would be some noticeable lag from the time you issue the command to the time it takes effect).

 

[jalaram]

I bought my wink hub just in time before the promotion ended. However, that was the US Amazon and I'm in CA. Waiting for the parents to bring it up on their next trip.

The two extra items I got was a Caseta plug in lamp switch and a Kwikset Z-Wave door lock. Will pop in here again once I get it hooked up.

Good news is that HomeDepot.ca announced that they'll start selling the wink stuff as well. So, if it works out, I'll be able to get more items.

 

[Kaido]

Wellllllllllll this is interesting:

Wink Teases ZigBee In-Wall Smart Home Hub with Touchscreen, Hard Buttons

* Wink Relay Hub
* Replaces most single (or double) lightswitches
* 4.3" multi-touch screen
* (2) smart light switches for controlling lights, scenes, and on/off on other smart devices
* MSRP $250
* Includes ZigBee to communicate with GE Link Bulbs (possibly other radios)
* Available temperature, humidity, and proximity sensors
* Upcoming intercom functionality via built-in mic & speakers

Screengrabs here:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/wink-preps-wall-mounted-touchpad-controller/

HTD's Lync keypad (controls audio & intercom) is $120 by itself:

http://www.htd.com/Products/Lync/LyncPad-Keypad

So for an extra $130 you're adding in two programmable switches (for lights, fans, whatever) plus a color touchscreen...that's a reasonable price when you look at it, especially if they do a good job integrating indoor & outdoor webcams for checking who is at the front door & so on. It'd be crazy expensive to retrofit your entire house, but not so bad if you were to compare it to say a high-end Crestron or Savant system (one switch per room @ say 10 rooms between bedrooms & areas like the kitchen = $2,500). I'm very excited to see how this pans out!

HOT.

 

[Kaido]

I think the programmable buttons are genius...I'm assuming they're touch-sensitive. My friend has had some basic off-the-shelf touch buttons for a few years now...you tap it on or off, or hold your finger for dimming functions. It'd be great to customize that for say a ceiling fan - tap once for low, twice for medium, and three times for high speed, then tap again for "off".

 

[Kaido]

Review of the GE Link Light is up:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/wink-ge-link-led-quick-look/

ZNF also has a comparison of some of the existing hub options on the market: (including Wink)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2014-08/battle-of-the-home-automation-hubs/

 

[Narumi]

That wink relay hub looks really nice and I would get one for some really cool HA that's DIY and looks like a pro install.

The hub, as much as I would have like wired, the truth is mainstream is going wireless. I have yet to see affordable 10 gigabit switches or even advances in the fiber optic industry to make it affordable for the home. But that's another story all together.

I would like a web based interface and with the embedded linux it's very possible to run a server on there. However, I have an ecobee thermostat and they host the web server in a datacenter and then your app and web ui runs off of that. So far, not a single complaint out of that system, so if that was they way to go, honestly it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

The "modular" type of hub you describe would be difficult, not because the hardware is not available but I would think more of royalties. Clearconnect and whatever else of wireless HA tech out there that big companies use is proprietary, as such they want money for people to pay for such tech. The hub is like $150 for a lutron made hub. Parts cost, and shipping... I would guess $50. so a 200% markup for something made by the company, but manufactured in china, you can only imagine the royalties they would want from someone else who is using their "tech".

The Wink HUB requires power and internet to connect you and your smart products. If your power or internet goes out you will still be able to manually control your products but you will not be able to control them via the Wink App.

I find it funny about the power thing. Power is needed for just about everything including your lights and whatever else you have automated, and well if it's that important you should be putting it on a battery backup or generator. My modem and router are on a battery backup so if the power goes out I have internet access still. Security, well I live in Texas so if the power goes out...well you either have a dog or a shotgun, whichever you prefer.

 

[Narumi]

That last bit is what caught my interest...they have an ETH trace on the PCB: (middle-right side in this picture)

Interesting, You know I have an ethernet port lying around from a build I did awhile ago. Wonder if you could solder one on and it would "work"

Too bad i didn't buy a second hub. For a dollar I would have sacrificed a board ^_^

 

[Kaido]

The "modular" type of hub you describe would be difficult, not because the hardware is not available but I would think more of royalties. Clearconnect and whatever else of wireless HA tech out there that big companies use is proprietary, as such they want money for people to pay for such tech. The hub is like $150 for a lutron made hub. Parts cost, and shipping... I would guess $50. so a 200% markup for something made by the company, but manufactured in china, you can only imagine the royalties they would want from someone else who is using their "tech".

Yeah, it's surprising that the Wink Hub is only $79 (MSRP) & Lutron's base Smart Bridge hub is $119; Lutron only does ClearConnect, whereas Wink does ClearConnect, Bluetooth, Kidde, Z-wave, etc. for $40 less.

 

[SchillerM]

Hi all, new here. Joined because of this thread.

I grabbed the hub, propane scale, and a Lutron switch w/remoteba few weeks back. Sync'd the scale but haven't put it in action yet. Installed the switch in a heavily used location and after ditching the CCFL that was in there and going back to a regular bulb is has worked great. Love the remote control, sits on wife's nightstand so she can turn on/off hallway light.

Picked up the GE bulbs yesterday, installed one and am having mixed thoughts on it. Compared to the Lutron it is slow to respond and send back status, not extremely bad though. My biggest concern is while playing with it I lost control of it more than once. Had to flip switch off/on to get it back. Since I was abusing it I am not sure how that will reflect daily use so we will see. Haven't installed 2nd GE bulb yet, will this week. Anyone know what range on ZigBee is? I was thinking I might be near limit?

FYI the deal is still on at Home Depot. Today (3rd) is last day.

On a side note, visited 3 HD that listed GE bulbs in stock, none had any idea what or where they were, very frustrating. At one they had the propane thing at $10 less, so I asked for price match, they wouldn't/couldn't do it because of the way the $0.99 hub is actually discounted. It took $49 off as a percentage of each item. I will be contacting customer service over both issues. 4th one I went to had an aisle listed for them and is right by work, they had 6 in stock, along with a bunch of leviton stuff that the others didn't.

Matt

 

[Kaido]

Hi all, new here. Joined because of this thread.

I grabbed the hub, propane scale, and a Lutron switch w/remoteba few weeks back. Sync'd the scale but haven't put it in action yet. Installed the switch in a heavily used location and after ditching the CCFL that was in there and going back to a regular bulb is has worked great. Love the remote control, sits on wife's nightstand so she can turn on/off hallway light.

Picked up the GE bulbs yesterday, installed one and am having mixed thoughts on it. Compared to the Lutron it is slow to respond and send back status, not extremely bad though. My biggest concern is while playing with it I lost control of it more than once. Had to flip switch off/on to get it back. Since I was abusing it I am not sure how that will reflect daily use so we will see. Haven't installed 2nd GE bulb yet, will this week. Anyone know what range on ZigBee is? I was thinking I might be near limit?

FYI the deal is still on at Home Depot. Today (3rd) is last day.

On a side note, visited 3 HD that listed GE bulbs in stock, none had any idea what or where they were, very frustrating. At one they had the propane thing at $10 less, so I asked for price match, they wouldn't/couldn't do it because of the way the $0.99 hub is actually discounted. It took $49 off as a percentage of each item. I will be contacting customer service over both issues. 4th one I went to had an aisle listed for them and is right by work, they had 6 in stock, along with a bunch of leviton stuff that the others didn't.

Matt

Welcome! :thumbsup:

Nice, glad to see them extending the sale. Although the bundle sale is over at Amazon, they're still selling the Wink Hub for $49 instead of $79:

http://www.amazon.com/Wink-Connected...dp/B002YVHYF2/

I've read that the ZigBee spec is supposed to be something like 30 meters, but that the practical range is 10 to 20 meters. Plus it's a mesh network, so the more gear you have, the stronger your network gets. I really wish they had a simple off-the-shelf range & signal tester available, even if it was just something that lit up with an LED to say that it received the signal (could probably go the DIY route with an Adruino Xbee setup).

Despite that, I wouldn't use the "abuse" qualifier - in a normal-sized house, you should be able to turn the bulb on & off as much as you'd like without having misfires or lag. That's the trouble with introducing additional "smarts" into wired systems like lightswitches...you don't always get 100% reliability or instantaneous response times. Plus, Wink bounces out to the cloud & back, which can add delays (there's not concrete info available yet about how their supposedly improved local caching system works).

At any rate, try moving the bulb to a location right next to the Wink Hub & see if the response time improves - that will tell you if it's a range/interference issue for sure. That's why I think having additional Wink Hub units (acting as relays) would be good because then you would have a built-in mesh network to overcome interference (fwiw their upcoming $250 color lightswitch has ZigBee, so that would be perfect for creating a strong network, assuming you want to spend some cash on switches for the entire house). I'm glad to hear the Lutron switch is working well for you - if I have time, I'll pop mine in tonight.

Yeah, I've had the same experience at Home Depot - that's just the system. I think Wink had high hopes that their rollout would be fantastic, but they screwed up in the packaging/marketing department themselves (trying to be cool & modern by having minimal instructions, which combined with the firmware status update bug gave a lot of users real headaches) & putting their faith in a big-box store where people are not paid well & don't have much incentive to do proper training & product rollouts. I went to 3 different Home Depot stores myself - one had nothing & the other had all of the Wink-certified equipment in a shopping cart, haha. But, that's reality - it is what it is (I ended up ordering off Amazon, lol).

Let us know how that propane scale works out - for the price, I decided to simply buy a second propane tank ($5 more than the Quirky Refuel) so that I could swap out the main one as needed, but I still think it's a pretty neat little device. The fuel gauges never really work right, so you'd always have to guess how much fuel was left by picking up the container - I'm curious to see how accurate their weight-sensing is in terms of measuring how much gas you have left.

 

[Narumi]

Hi all, new here. Joined because of this thread.

I grabbed the hub, propane scale, and a Lutron switch w/remoteba few weeks back. Sync'd the scale but haven't put it in action yet. Installed the switch in a heavily used location and after ditching the CCFL that was in there and going back to a regular bulb is has worked great. Love the remote control, sits on wife's nightstand so she can turn on/off hallway light.

Picked up the GE bulbs yesterday, installed one and am having mixed thoughts on it. Compared to the Lutron it is slow to respond and send back status, not extremely bad though. My biggest concern is while playing with it I lost control of it more than once. Had to flip switch off/on to get it back. Since I was abusing it I am not sure how that will reflect daily use so we will see. Haven't installed 2nd GE bulb yet, will this week. Anyone know what range on ZigBee is? I was thinking I might be near limit?

FYI the deal is still on at Home Depot. Today (3rd) is last day.

On a side note, visited 3 HD that listed GE bulbs in stock, none had any idea what or where they were, very frustrating. At one they had the propane thing at $10 less, so I asked for price match, they wouldn't/couldn't do it because of the way the $0.99 hub is actually discounted. It took $49 off as a percentage of each item. I will be contacting customer service over both issues. 4th one I went to had an aisle listed for them and is right by work, they had 6 in stock, along with a bunch of leviton stuff that the others didn't.

Matt

Greetings as well! :biggrin:

Hm I might grab another hub then just to play with that Ethernet port....

As for the bulbs, I never really liked the idea of them because it means whatever they are plugged into will always have power. For mainstream, I don't think that's a good idea (think about changing out a switch with the power on)

That's the main reason I bought 4 Lutron dimmer switches, also they work and Lutron is the gold standard for remote lighting (unless you go control 4 or HAI)

On another note, It would be nice if they had a on/off switch. I have seen it in their caseta lineup, but nothing in stores or online yet.

 

[Kaido]

Greetings as well! :biggrin:

Hm I might grab another hub then just to play with that Ethernet port....

As for the bulbs, I never really liked the idea of them because it means whatever they are plugged into will always have power. For mainstream, I don't think that's a good idea (think about changing out a switch with the power on)

That's the main reason I bought 4 Lutron dimmer switches, also they work and Lutron is the gold standard for remote lighting (unless you go control 4 or HAI)

On another note, It would be nice if they had a on/off switch. I have seen it in their caseta lineup, but nothing in stores or online yet.

Yeah, I was going to pick up a GE bulb, but I really like my existing Philips LED bulbs (100w for everything but task lamps, where I use their 40w SlimStyle, which I really love). I do think it's a really cool concept, especially like if you're renting an apartment & don't want to retrofit everything or buy plug-in adapters...maybe I'll pick one up for fun (two bulbs for $30 plus an additional Wink Hub for $1?).

I am curious to get my hands on the Pico remote. I plan on building a home (at some point) in the future; I'm thinking it might be best to run all of the load wiring into a central electronics closet & then just put a zillion Pico remotes with wallmount kits (completely wireless + 10-year battery life) around the house - ex. one at every room entrance, plus in convenient places (so like one by the bedroom entrance, then another one on each side of the bed so each partner can hit the lights - THAT would be convenient!). Like you said, Lutron is a pretty big name in lighting, so I don't think that would be a bad way to go...