The Wink home automation thread

[MjnMixael]

Oh yes, keep us updated on that doorbell!

 

[FreddieT]

Now I just need the Zwave enabled trap door that fires off when the doorbell is pressed and dumps the solicitor into the furnace!

I still prefer the old fashioned way of letting the rottweiler answer the door first. Much more entertaining that way!

 

[quagga]

So matt-wink, I have a question.

I see that Wink.com has pulled the Chamberline MyQ product in an effort to push its Ascend product. This despite the fact that those of us who have Chamberline Garage Door openers would likely be better off with the easier to integrate and use MyQ options.

I understand Wink taking the policy of pushing it's "invented here" products (the Ascend) over it's compatible products (the MyQ) in its own store but I want to make sure that's not going to be Wink wide. Those 3rd party products are in unique and in many cases superior to the Quirky equivalent (read: I'm never buying a Norm over a Nest).

If you're going to start excluding 3rd party products, I need to know now to make platform decisions. I don't care what the wink.com store does (your prices aren't competitive anyway), but I want to make sure Wink the platform stays somewhat agnostic.

 

[JFHughes08088]

Came home last night to many bulbs lost pairing (as evidenced by the grey wifi/question mark icon). Arghhhhh. Hub re-boots didn't fix it so I had to re-pair. Usually, the process is to remove the unpaired bulb, set it back to factory (by doing the power on/off 6 times in 3 second intervals), then adding it back as a new product. Unfortunately, it loses any association to groups, shortcuts or robots.

*****HOWEVER********

If you don't remove the unpaired bulb but still re-set it to factory and then add it as a new product, it keeps its name AND group/shortcut/robot associations.

Small victory but interesting none the less.

It makes me wonder if re-setting it to factory default doesn't really fully re-set it?

 

[MjnMixael]

So matt-wink, I have a question.

I see that Wink.com has pulled the Chamberline MyQ product in an effort to push its Ascend product. This despite the fact that those of us who have Chamberline Garage Door openers would likely be better off with the easier to integrate and use MyQ options.

I understand Wink taking the policy of pushing it's "invented here" products (the Ascend) over it's compatible products (the MyQ) in its own store but I want to make sure that's not going to be Wink wide. Those 3rd party products are in unique and in many cases superior to the Quirky equivalent (read: I'm never buying a Norm over a Nest).

If you're going to start excluding 3rd party products, I need to know now to make platform decisions. I don't care what the wink.com store does (your prices aren't competitive anyway), but I want to make sure Wink the platform stays somewhat agnostic.

I really, really doubt Wink is going to actively start excluding third-party products. Follow this through... Wink wants you to buy one of their devices. They advertise that it works with the Wink App.. oh and by the way, you already have Nest? You can control that with our app, too!

Wink's strategy has been to get you into their app at all costs so that you buy a Wink Hub and a Wink thingamajig. But the goal is to get you into the app, and that means working with Nest, MyQ, Honeywell, whatever it takes. Wink knows that to stop with the third-part stuff is to suddenly become irrelevant in the Home Automation market.

 

[quagga]

Exclude? I doubt it. Lag behind with support? Sure. It's natural to push your resources to where you're making money and I'd expect Wink to do that. I'm just trying to get a sense of how much impact that's going to have have long term on the platform. Do you buy an Outlink with the thought that it'll have more support than the Leviton outlet going down the line?

If Matt McGovern gets to market for Wink, market away! I don't know enough about where the platform is going to invest. So, I buy nothing. I want to interact more, but there's nothing to interact with. It's like reading tea leaves. I lurk on the Facebook group and read Ben Kauffmans messages. I read tweet replies from @thewinkapp to other people in order to get a sense of what's going on.

I'd love to have a conversation about Wink. You don't have to show us all your cards, but I think you need to ease fears the platform is going nowhere. Brand confidence and all of that.

 

[MjnMixael]

That's fair, I suppose. I guess I have just gotten a sense of confidence in the brand from being on the beta tester side of things. With a slightly more internal view of cool things coming down the pipe, I keep inching closer to being fully invested in Wink's platform.

In fact, things that are coming down the pipe just caused me to retire my Tasker Android that ran a few "robots" that Wink couldn't do yet.

 

[quagga]

I think it's good that you have a good feeling about what is coming down the pipe. To those of us not in the beta program though, it's hard to tell what they're actually prioritizing. And it puts those of us on the outside in the awkward position of trying to put together breadcrumbs dropped by Wink or by people in betas.

For example, I'm assuming that if you can retire Tasker, robots are getting a brain upgrade. I'm also assuming since you're in beta you can't say (and I certainly wouldn't ask). We now have IFTTT "that" support and Wink has hinted better stuff is coming, presumably with "If".

I really want aeotec support in Wink. Aeotec filled out the contact form but Wink hasn't spoken with them yet.. Of course, Wink has had a busy week. However I have to get that information from Aeotec since Wink just doesn't talk about it.

I really just feel they need to talk and put out information. We don't secret formulas, but I don't think it would be terrible to say "we're working on X which is probably X months out". Deadlines slip, etc but to at least know they're working on it is reassuring. Proactive information distribution - not just responding to 1 person's question on twitter which that person or a 3rd person has to post on a forum or Facebook group to disseminate to a wider audience.

 

[dennisj00]

I posted that we got the EggMinder on Sunday. . . well, tucked away in the fridge, nothing happened all week. Wife used a couple this week but no update.

Tonight she brought me the tray (30' closer to the hub - or outside of the fridge!) and nothing updated. Suddenly it came alive and updated to what was there and what should be picked next.

She took four (4) and it updated every time with the one to pick next.

It'll be interesting to see the mix as we add eggs.

 

[Kaido]

Gizmodo: My Wink Smart Home Is Just Plain Braindead Now

http://gizmodo.com/why-is-my-smart-home-so-fucking-dumb-1684949715/1700639570/+ace

Engadget: Developer makes Amazon's Echo control Wink and Nest devices

http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/23/amazon-echo-nest-wink/

 

[quagga]

Gizmodo: My Wink Smart Home Is Just Plain Braindead Now

I am at times rather critical of the Wink platform (because I want it to improve) but this Gizmodo guy is a joke. He nearly starts an electrical fire installing a Relay (and that's a lovely wiring job there anyway), destroyed a tripper since he can't comprehend the re-pair directions (the magnet side is clearly not meant to be opened), and has some love affair with animated gifs. Because you know, why use video when you can have poorly compressed, dithered 8-bit technology from the 90s? I think he should have gone with ASCII art.

And then there is the information which is inaccurate (I've paired groups of GE link bulbs at a time with no issue). And I'm reading the relay instructions; they're not just a photo and they're not that complicated. They also clearly state you should hire a professional if you're not comfortable doing this. When you run 15 Amps through your hand via a power drill, that's probably not comfortable ... "I'm not an electrician but I'm good with diagrams".

I got the sense when I read the article the first time he just wanted something to complain about. Assuming the DNS fix works, the hub fix isn't a big deal. If you have to mail it in, yes, then it's a PITA but that happens sometimes.

The part that irks me is that I'm getting the sense from the article that Wink gave him all of this stuff. Then again, this level of garbage is exactly what I'd expect from Gizmodo.

 

[Kaido]

Then again, this level of garbage is exactly what I'd expect from Gizmodo.

Gizmodo is weird. That original article was written like it was a mommy blogger on CNN or something. Usually tech heads are willing to deal with bugs when new technology comes out, and outside of Vera/INSTEON/X10 & the like, Wink is a pretty big deal in the consumer HA world - turnkey, available at Home Depot, etc. Although at the same time, I also like to see opposing viewpoints so things aren't just one-sided all the time, so it's good to get the complaints aired out too imo.

But then you have really great & amazing stuff like like they post in the Sploid & Paleofuture sections. There was a time when I completely stopped reading them because every article had foul language & there was so much childish stuff going on (like the Apple hijinks). They seem to slip in & out of it. Although even Engadget is amping up the language & 'adult' material lately, which is annoying if you read at work. Very unprofessional imo. Same deal with stuff like Hackaday...good content, but it's like teenagers are editing the articles.

Oh well.

 

[wagohn]

I am at times rather critical of the Wink platform (because I want it to improve) but this Gizmodo guy is a joke. He nearly starts an electrical fire installing a Relay (and that's a lovely wiring job there anyway), destroyed a tripper since he can't comprehend the re-pair directions (the magnet side is clearly not meant to be opened), and has some love affair with animated gifs. Because you know, why use video when you can have poorly compressed, dithered 8-bit technology from the 90s? I think he should have gone with ASCII art.

And then there is the information which is inaccurate (I've paired groups of GE link bulbs at a time with no issue). And I'm reading the relay instructions; they're not just a photo and they're not that complicated. They also clearly state you should hire a professional if you're not comfortable doing this. When you run 15 Amps through your hand via a power drill, that's probably not comfortable ... "I'm not an electrician but I'm good with diagrams".

I got the sense when I read the article the first time he just wanted something to complain about. Assuming the DNS fix works, the hub fix isn't a big deal. If you have to mail it in, yes, then it's a PITA but that happens sometimes.

The part that irks me is that I'm getting the sense from the article that Wink gave him all of this stuff. Then again, this level of garbage is exactly what I'd expect from Gizmodo.

I don't know - the article has a point. Just for the whole 'hub fiasco' the wink platform is on sketchy ground. I'm still not convinced that Wink can recover from that.

I think the article is getting at the fact that the 'everyday Joe' will have similar issues with the Wink platform. If Home Depot is selling Wink, its assumed its reliable and within the tech know-how of the average customer. I tried explaining how my GE bulbs were automated to my father-in-law, you could watch his eyes glaze over as I discussed hubs, wifi, and other non-normal issues. He just wants it to work - like a light switch does.

The article has valid points. This stuff rarely works 'out of the box' and as expected. However, I have had 90% success with the GE 'mini-hub' and GE bulbs, but thats by keeping it extremely simple.

 

[Kaido]

I don't know - the article has a point. Just for the whole 'hub fiasco' the wink platform is on sketchy ground. I'm still not convinced that Wink can recover from that.

I think the article is getting at the fact that the 'everyday Joe' will have similar issues with the Wink platform. If Home Depot is selling Wink, its assumed its reliable and within the tech know-how of the average customer. I tried explaining how my GE bulbs were automated to my father-in-law, you could watch his eyes glaze over as I discussed hubs, wifi, and other non-normal issues. He just wants it to work - like a light switch does.

The article has valid points. This stuff rarely works 'out of the box' and as expected. However, I have had 90% success with the GE 'mini-hub' and GE bulbs, but thats by keeping it extremely simple.

It's a hiccup, but they'll get past it. It happens. At least the hub locked itself down rather than going haywire or getting hacked, you know? The technology is still progressing. I was showing off the GE Link Light I had on my porch to a buddy yesterday and of course it went the usual route: "So how does it work with the lightswitch?" "Well, you have to leave it on." "Oh right, because if you turn it off, it won't get power so it won't get the signal." "Yeah." "Well how much is a smart switch?" "Sixty bucks."

So barrier #1 is functionality...the GE Link lights are cool, but if you want to have enhanced functionality of existing workflows, then you need to replace the switch so you can still flick it on & off, but also remotely control it & schedule it. Barrier #2 is, of course, pricing. To me, $60 for a smart switch is relatively affordable - not that I'm rich, but for as long as I've been interested in Home Automation stuff, all of the gear to do is has been stupidly expensive & often requires a certified installer to come in because they won't sell some of the stuff directly to consumers, so even though $60 is crazy expensive, at least it's something you can buy off the shelf, install yourself, and have it work with minimal fuss. So that's pretty cool.

But when you tell a consumer who is uneducated in smarthome historical pricing, they get sticker shock pretty quickly. And as much as I think it's cool, I still only have a single in-wall switch installed because it's hard to justify $60 per room (plus I'm upgrading all of my bulbs to 100-watt-equivalent Philips LED bulbs, which are $20 to $30 each). That project would be well over a thousand dollars, and that's just for lights - not to mention HVAC control, automated window treatments, and all the other gizmos I want to buy. However, if they could drop the price down to say $10 (versus a dollar for a non-automated switch), that would be more compelling because even though it'd be say $300 out outfit a regular house, 60w-equivalent LED bulbs are like $5 these days, so the cost savings story would start to get pretty compelling:

http://connect.xcelenergy.com/minne...by-switching-to-energy-efficient-light-bulbs/

 

[quagga]

I don't know - the article has a point. Just for the whole 'hub fiasco' the wink platform is on sketchy ground. I'm still not convinced that Wink can recover from that.

I'm not sure what Wink's long term game plan is if they have one. They seem to be focusing on niche products and giving the Hub away. For those of us interested in HA, honestly, I make sure every product I buy these days works either independently of them, or can be moved to another HA solution. Nests look cool; Honeywall makes a thermostat which looks almost exactly like the one I have on the wall but it has wifi. Both of those work independently of Wink. My light bulbs are almost all on the Hue hub and I only bought trippers as they were reported working in SmartThings (although apparently might not be since then).

I think the article is getting at the fact that the 'everyday Joe' will have similar issues with the Wink platform. If Home Depot is selling Wink, its assumed its reliable and within the tech know-how of the average customer. I tried explaining how my GE bulbs were automated to my father-in-law, you could watch his eyes glaze over as I discussed hubs, wifi, and other non-normal issues. He just wants it to work - like a light switch does.

I think Relay is a bit of a failed product. It's extremely expensive and doesn't work well as a smart switch. I think he would have been better off starting with a smart switch, particularly in an apartment complex which is wired who knows how. Or have an electrician come in and do it properly. Home Depot is the DIY demographic (which I fit right into and I imagine he does too). But if I start a project and get in over my head, I hire a professional to bail me out. Not blame the product. This was clearly over his head but he didn't realize that until he got into it. He could have opened up the wiring diagram and seen what he was in for.

I also get the sense that the relay has some promised features which are still not delivered. Wink has a bad habit of doing that.

The article has valid points. This stuff rarely works 'out of the box' and as expected. However, I have had 90% success with the GE 'mini-hub' and GE bulbs, but thats by keeping it extremely simple.

I think the marketed expectations are too high. Wink isn't the only platform which has strange issues with HA functions not working. You'd think they'd work to get the lighting issues fixed though because that's probably most people's entry way into this stuff. If you can't reliably turn off / on the lights, I'm not going to entrust a lock or garage door to you.

I still have my $50 and I honestly can't figure out what I'd use it for. I don't trust Wink to reliably shut off the Leviton appliance module. I'd love more Hue bulbs (they don't sell them) or couple of Nest Protects (they don't sell them). How about a Chamberline Garage Door opener ... Oh wait.

All 3 of those products have their own ecosystems separate from Wink. That's probably why they're the strongest products there.

 

[Mike A.]

Interesting article on Quirky:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/24/8488531/quirky-invention-powered-by-quirky

Which highlights what probably my biggest concern re Wink. I'm not convinced that they have the capabilities or resources in a lot of areas, financial included, to really make it work longer term. Dreaming up and launching something like this is one thing, continuing to operate successfully on a longer-term basis is another. Completely different deal.

 

[Mike A.]

I'm not sure what Wink's long term game plan is if they have one. They seem to be focusing on niche products and giving the Hub away. For those of us interested in HA, honestly, I make sure every product I buy these days works either independently of them, or can be moved to another HA solution. Nests look cool; Honeywall makes a thermostat which looks almost exactly like the one I have on the wall but it has wifi. Both of those work independently of Wink. My light bulbs are almost all on the Hue hub and I only bought trippers as they were reported working in SmartThings (although apparently might not be since then)...

Agree with pretty much all of your post. Wink has been effectively free for me to date and beyond a few Link bulbs everything that I have I already had working and will work with systems other than Wink. I can't see dropping bigger money on something like the Relay at this point. Not confident enough that it will be something that's still working a year from now. Most of the rest of their stuff is novelty-type products that I'm not likely to buy.

Btw, the Wink hub now is selling at a regular price of $20 at my local Home Depot. It's been less in the end with purchases of lights and other deals, but was $49.99 regular price.

 

[wagohn]

Interesting article on Quirky:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/24/8488531/quirky-invention-powered-by-quirky

Which highlights what probably my biggest concern re Wink. I'm not convinced that they have the capabilities or resources in a lot of areas, financial included, to really make it work longer term. Dreaming up and launching something like this is one thing, continuing to operate successfully on a longer-term basis is another. Completely different deal.

Which is why its critical that the Wink app allows LOCAL control of devices. if Wink servers go away, so does all the control of our devices.

For now, Im sticking with GE 'smart' light bulbs that, if needed, can be turned on and off with an old fashioned switch.

 

[quagga]

Which is why its critical that the Wink app allows LOCAL control of devices. if Wink servers go away, so does all the control of our devices.

For now, Im sticking with GE 'smart' light bulbs that, if needed, can be turned on and off with an old fashioned switch.

The Smart Bulbs - be them GE, Cree or Hue have the advantage that you can reset them and pair them with another hub (well, the GE and Cree can be - Hue presently is really tied to the Hue hub unless you want to get really complicated but that's it's own forum post).

If Wink implodes, you can go to your nearby Home Depot and buy a Hue Lux starter set, re-pair the GE bulbs to the Hue hub. You get local control and just use Hue apps on your phone to control the bulbs. My Link's are on the Hue hub presently.

But yes, your overall point is key - I'm not investing in any Wink proprietary technology as I don't trust their future. So no Relay, Power Strip, Spotter, Lutron Caseta (not Wink proprietary but not on SmartThings), Overflow, Ascend, Norm, Eggminder, Nimbus or Porkfolio. Essentially any of their wifi "cloud" products are out and only the Z-wave, Zigbee remain.

There are trust issues which I think originate in Wink not having a cohesive communication platform to tell us what's going on.

 

[smhawkes]

Just a heads up, if you have Android don't update the Wink app the update just force closes.

Seems they just updated the update to 3.1.0.10 and fixed it.

 

[trunzoc]

Looks like my Tasker project is going the way of the dodo...

https://get.google.com/tips/#!/tips/turn-your-lights-on-and-off-with-wink

 

[MjnMixael]

Looks like that only does shortcuts and not individual lights?

 

[FreddieT]

Just a heads up, if you have Android don't update the Wink app the update just force closes.

Seems they just updated the update to 3.1.0.10 and fixed it.

Dammit! Should have checked here first!
Oh well. Am I surprised that the update crashes? No.

 

[FreddieT]

Looks like my Tasker project is going the way of the dodo...

https://get.google.com/tips/#!/tips/turn-your-lights-on-and-off-with-wink

Not yet! At least your Tasker project actually worked! The Jury is still out on Wink's encarnation of it!

 

[MjnMixael]

Looks like my Tasker project is going the way of the dodo...

https://get.google.com/tips/#!/tips/turn-your-lights-on-and-off-with-wink

Honestly, I would be interested in your app being repurposed for people who want to do advanced tasker robots that Wink doesn't currently allow...