[Theregister] POWER8 Details revealed

[Blitzvogel]

Wow, nice to see that Power is still around and being pushed.

The thing is, how relevant is Power in an x86 and ARM world?

What if...........*CRAZY IDEA HERE*............IBM was to go Apple with a customized Linux distro or Unix OS, with possibly tri or sextacore Power8 based processors specifically for enterprise workstations, desktops, and laptops?

Just thinking here......

 

[Enigmoid]

Its the work done with this power that we care

Well work per watt in the server space.

 

[mikk]

At least get your facts right. Power7+ shipped on the first servers in oct 2012.

Both the Power 770+ and Power 780+ machines will be generally available on October 19

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/03/ibm_power7_plus_server_launch/?page=2

IBM Sells First Power 770+ In Europe, And It Runs IBM i: http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh020413-story07.html

Big Blue has announced its first big sale for the new Power 770+ servers announced last October in Europe, and the deal was done at SLIB, a software maker and service provider that specializes in for securities order, clearing, settlement, and risk analysis, among other things.

General first availability Q1-Q2 2013.

And how is Haswell-ex shipping in h2 2014 when ivy bridge-ex is only shipping in h1 2014. Ivy bridge-ex must have the shortest lifespan in the history of intel high end server chips (Westmere-ex will be close to 3 years old before being replaced by ivy-ex)

The register article quotes ibm saying that power8 will ship in systems in mid 2014.

That's really pointless since Power 8 won't be ready in the near future and delays are possible. It's not exclusive to Intel. And better don't trust IBM statements about availability. I guess you don't have a Roadmap.

 

[Homeles]

Wow, nice to see that Power is still around and being pushed.

The thing is, how relevant is Power in an x86 and ARM world?

What if...........*CRAZY IDEA HERE*............IBM was to go Apple with a customized Linux distro or Unix OS, with possibly tri or sextacore Power8 based processors specifically for enterprise workstations, desktops, and laptops?

Just thinking here......

Apple's not going back to IBM.

 

[thunng8]

IBM Sells First Power 770+ In Europe, And It Runs IBM i: http://www.itjungle.com/tfh/tfh020413-story07.html
General first availability Q1-Q2 2013.



That's really pointless since Power 8 won't be ready in the near future and delays are possible. It's not exclusive to Intel. And better don't trust IBM statements about availability. I guess you don't have a Roadmap.

It was the first sale in Europe and it is going into production in Q1 2013. i.e. sold to customer and then customer configures it for production. From the time the customer receives it and gets it into production environment takes time.

The company I work for had access to a 780+ box in November last year to start the environment testing. We didn't put the box into production until May this year.

And it also pointless talking about Ivy Bridge-Ex availability since it won't be available in the near future either.

 

[aigomorla]

What if...........*CRAZY IDEA HERE*............IBM was to go Apple with a customized Linux distro or Unix OS, with possibly tri or sextacore Power8 based processors specifically for enterprise workstations, desktops, and laptops?

Just thinking here......

macbook pro's would be the size of suit cases again.. and require a lithium suitcase to make macbooks last longer then 2 hours.

so no... dont think apple likes that idea at all.

This processor is a BEAST... but at the same time, it would make the AMD's FX's 200W TDP chip look like one of Intel's ULV Atom chips in terms of wattage.
There is just no way a chip with 96megs of L3 cache + 12 cores could "sip" power.

 

[Tsavo]

These would be great in iPads and iPhones.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I meant an Apple like business model, not Apple going back to IBM. I also mentioned three and six core variants of this 12 core processor as possible CPUs for such machines.

 

[Idontcare]

More Power8 slides from IBM can be found at Goto-san's weekly digest, I'll embed a few of the more interesting (to me anyways ) ones here:

60% more single-threaded performance than Power7!?

 

[insertcarehere]

I meant an Apple like business model, not Apple going back to IBM. I also mentioned three and six core variants of this 12 core processor as possible CPUs for such machines.

I don't think the business model that IBM operates in right now would provide enough volume at a low enough cost.

 

[seitur]

These would be great in iPads and iPhones.

I think it would be great CPU to embeed in washer or toster. :whiste:


On a more serious note - damn that thing is a monster !


I wonder what's TDP and peak power usage.

 

[krumme]

Everytime the IBM process consortium (ibm, gf and samsung) develloped a new process node the IBM power design team later found out it was a perfect process for their design.

"Lets see. Is it also SOI this time you say?"

 

[Homeles]

Geez, look at the size of the LSU on that thing.

 

[Idontcare]

Everytime the IBM process consortium (ibm, gf and samsung) develloped a new process node the IBM power design team later found out it was a perfect process for their design.

"Lets see. Is it also SOI this time you say?"

Oh yeah, it is pretty clear that there is one goal in the creation of IBM's fab club - to convince everyone else to subsidize IBM's R&D goals.

GloFo is going to separate themselves from that mess in a node or two and they'll be better for it.

 

[thunng8]

I think it would be great CPU to embeed in washer or toster. :whiste:


On a more serious note - damn that thing is a monster !


I wonder what's TDP and peak power usage.

IBM has always kept their high end Power processors at around 200W. I think Power7 was over that figure (~220w) but Power7+ was under. Should similar with Power8 but I don't know for sure as it wasn't mentioned in the article..

You can check all of the power usage of Power servers here

http://www-912.ibm.com/see/EnergyEstimator

For example

A p730 model with 2x4.2ghz Power7+ CPUs with 8 cores each uses 341w at 100% load. At worst each Power7+ processor is using 170w which is only slightly higher than 130w for Intel's server processors and Power7+ is a lot faster in server workloads than intel Xeons

 

[Fox5]

Oh yeah, it is pretty clear that there is one goal in the creation of IBM's fab club - to convince everyone else to subsidize IBM's R&D goals.

GloFo is going to separate themselves from that mess in a node or two and they'll be better for it.

I'd imagine if you're making high performance processors, IBM's goals match up pretty well with your own.

 

[SocketF]

Everytime the IBM process consortium (ibm, gf and samsung) develloped a new process node the IBM power design team later found out it was a perfect process for their design.

"Lets see. Is it also SOI this time you say?"

Yes I opened a thread for the process recently, but nobody was interested that time ...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2335170

 

[insertcarehere]

I'd imagine if you're making high performance processors, IBM's goals match up pretty well with your own.

I'd imagine that the design goals for a dedicated 150W+ TDP POWER7/8 processor will differ significantly from say, an Exynos SoC (also a part of the consortium), even if both may be classified as high performance processors in the grand scheme of things.

 

[krumme]

Yes I opened a thread for the process recently, but nobody was interested that time ...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2335170

I dont have the skills to understand the tech. But as a general rule IBM intentions for the process must go towards low power and speed at the expense of density and variable cost. (Contraire to eg. tsmc that had eg. Very dense but leaking 40nm)

Look at the selling price for such a power8. They dont give a damn if its eg. using soi or not from a cost view.

Agree with IDC here. Gf should leave. They are to far from each other. Different goals.

 

[aigomorla]

I dont have the skills to understand the tech. But as a general rule IBM intentions for the process must go towards low power and speed at the expense of density and variable cost. (Contraire to eg. tsmc that had eg. Very dense but leaking 40nm)

This chip can not be low power.
Again... there is no way a 12 core 8 meg each core, 96meg total L3 Cache chip can be "energy efficient".

Its like saying yea... my Bugatti Vayron is most definitely green.

Like the bugatti Vayron... this chip is a BEAST... and insanely quick too with 96megs of L3 cache.
That 93meg cache is the quad turbo on the vayron.

Compare that to the intel flag ship processors which have only 30meg cache.

 

[Homeles]

Yes I opened a thread for the process recently, but nobody was interested that time ...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2335170

There are very few people that have an understanding of that material around here. In addition, the details of many process nodes have not been publicized, so there's not much to compare those numbers to.

In the paper the key design rules are given as follows:
Contacted gate pitch: 100 nm
N-P Active Space: 72
Metal 1-5 Pitch: 80nm
6-7: 144 nm
8-10: 288nm
11-13:640nm
14-15: 2400nm

For comparison, here's a few of Intel's 22nm numbers:
Contacted gate pitch: as low as 80nm; generally 90nm
M1 pitch: 64nm
SRAM cell: 0.092um²
And a bit more: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lI3faVhyf3g/UMd0gfV1gXI/AAAAAAAAATk/QvtIA0ESveU/s1600/Table+1.png

 

[krumme]

This chip can not be low power.
Again... there is no way a 12 core 8 meg each core, 96meg total L3 Cache chip can be "energy efficient".

Its like saying yea... my Bugatti Vayron is most definitely green.

Like the bugatti Vayron... this chip is a BEAST... and insanely quick too with 96megs of L3 cache.
That 93meg cache is the quad turbo on the vayron.

Compare that to the intel flag ship processors which have only 30meg cache.

Ofcource its not low power

Some of the most difficult elements of designing cpu is probably to get power distruted and get heat away. On 650mm2 that is certainly an huge issue so a low power but expensive process like soi is the way to go.

And you dont care if you use expensive floor mats in your bugatti vayron.

 

[Bryf50]

Didn't we just have a few threads about IBM gutting the POWER team. What happened with that?

 

[thunng8]

Didn't we just have a few threads about IBM gutting the POWER team. What happened with that?

Pure FUD. Instead of gutting, it looks like they are expanding it. Work has already started on Power9 and they are working with their hardware partners to integrate the core technology to Google, Nvidia and others via the OpenPower consortium.

 

[thunng8]

This chip can not be low power.
Again... there is no way a 12 core 8 meg each core, 96meg total L3 Cache chip can be "energy efficient".

Well if you take into account the performance/watt, the Power8 should be very efficient if they manage to keep it within 200W. High end Intel server chips are 130-150W, so if Power8 is 200W, it will have higher performance/watt than Intel.