There's no pleasing the tea party

[Jhhnn]

Yes, yes. Slashing Medicare and phasing out SS are some heavy-duty progressive platforms, along with his stance on abortion, gay marriage, taxes, etc. etc.

Righties eat their own, using ideological impurity as a sort of taste test...

 

[TerryMathews]

This is just tired at this point, Terry. Republicans were asked for plenty of input. They proposed many ammendments and many were accepted. The negotiations went like this:

Dems: Here is the bill based on your own model straight from the Heritage Foundation. What do you think?
GOP: It sucks.
Dems: What would you change?
GOP: This and this and this.
Dems: Okay we changed some of that, better?
GOP: No it sucks.
Dems: What else would you change?
GOP: This and this and this.
Dems: Okay we changed some of that, better?
GOP: No it sucks.
Dems: Fine, fuck you we'll pass it by ourselves since you are acting like children.

Sorry youre tired of hearing it, but its still true. ACA is a fully Democratic endeavor. Members of the Democratic party dont like ACA either. Why are you so in love with it? Work for an insurance company?

ACA was nothing but a giant Christmas present for the industry.

Heh, not just delusional, but lashing out in denial. Google "government dependency'' for a lot of results like this-

http://www.teaparty.org/s-slips-into-government-dependency-under-obama-26373/

Like it or not, we depend on each other, particularly in our specialized world. That dependency has structure, defined in ways democratic or not- government, religion, and business.

Pick a position please. Is the tea party "a minority of the republican party" and "tehadists" or are they the republican party? Because right now you're conflating the tea party platform with the Republican platform, which is either a mistake or dishonest.

None of your duh-version has anything to do with how bad ACA is or how fiscal conservatives would prefer top to bottom single payer a la DOD health care - which has strong cost controls.

 

[hal2kilo]

Sorry youre tired of hearing it, but its still true. ACA is a fully Democratic endeavor. Members of the Democratic party dont like ACA either. Why are you so in love with it? Work for an insurance company?

ACA was nothing but a giant Christmas present for the industry.







Pick a position please. Is the tea party "a minority of the republican party" and "tehadists" or are they the republican party? Because right now you're conflating the tea party platform with the Republican platform, which is either a mistake or dishonest.

None of your duh-version has anything to do with how bad ACA is or how fiscal conservatives would prefer top to bottom single payer a la DOD health care - which has strong cost controls.

Wow I must have missed all the news coverage about conservatives wanting single payer.

Links?

 

[TerryMathews]

Wow I must have missed all the news coverage about conservatives wanting single payer.

Links?

I said they would support it if it were offered. Has ANYONE put it on the table?

Ask yourself why.

 

[hal2kilo]

I said they would support it if it were offered. Has ANYONE put it on the table?

Ask yourself why.

I guess especially if it did not come from Obama. AMIRITE?

You're really doing some major gymnastics, claiming conservatives are now for single payer when their whole philosophy is against government involvement in anything except for defense.

So much fail.

 

[TerryMathews]

I guess especially if it did not come from Obama. AMIRITE?

You're really doing some major gymnastics, claiming conservatives are now for single payer when their whole philosophy is against government involvement in anything except for defense.

So much fail.

You're twisting my words a bit. It would be more accurate to say my position was that they would be in favor of single payer vs ACA if the single payer had strong cost controls built it.

 

[thraashman]

LOL, that is pretty funny. Let's just throw some random data points of subjective measurements on a graph. Graphs mean science!

Also it shows that Democrats are getting more liberal at about the same rate as Republicans are getting more conservative, so I'm not sure how that's a win. The gulf is widening because of both sides, not because of Republicans, as Democrats would love to claim.

Well it's not "random data points". It's using the DW-Nominate scores, an explanation of which can be found here http://www.voteview.com/dwnominate.asp. I admit, it's not the most simple thing to understand. And the two different graphs I've linked both show polarization, but show that the Republicans have polarized more and faster and that the Dems briefly did a hard shift close to center before normalizing to left again. It also shows that the Republican shift right is much more stark in the House than in the Senate. I'll link them both again so you can see.


Senate (article explaining http://voteview.com/blog/?p=892)
You can see that the Senate dems hard shift from center to more liberal happened after WW2 and since the 70's the shift left has been gradual, and that the Reps shift was gradual until the last 90's and they've shifted faster since then and are further right than the Dems are left. (Dems -0.39 and Reps 0.53)

House (article explaining http://voteview.com/blog/?p=887) In the house the graph is more stark. You can see how the Dems went from -0.2 in the 50's to about -0.4 now, a gradual shift left over about 60 years. But the Republicans have gone from 0.2 in the mid 70's to about 0.7 now, making them almost twice as conservative as the dems are liberal. (Dems -0.4, Reps 0.71)

Just because you don't like what something shows or don't understand it doesn't mean you can discount it. Yes, both parties have moved from center. The Republicans though have moved further from center and the shift has been very stark in recent years.

 

[OGOC]

You aren't already laughing so hard at this guy?

He's a joke and clearly disconnected from reality. His bubble is unbreakable!

In other threads, I've countered your arguments with things like facts and logic and asked you to back your arguments up, but all you do is make personal attacks or run away, because you are unable to back up your arguments with things like facts and logic.

You are the biggest troll on this board, as you proved once again with this post.

 

[OGOC]

Basically, Boehner admits to shutting down the Govt over the ACA. But now, well now, it's not about the ACA at all, but about something, anything else, and the usual ravers fall right in line, echoing the latest talking points as if they were born yesterday.

Sounds like he's negotiating and compromising. Something Reid and Obama refuse to even attempt.

The notion that Reid & Obama shut down the govt & not the Teahadists is an absurdity, a profound faith-based disconnect from reality.

This is what happens when Reid and the Senate refuse to pass a real budget for four years and want to rely on continuing resolutions that were based on a one-time huge increase in spending and jam through Obamacare without a single Republican vote.

Yes, yes. Slashing Medicare and phasing out SS are some heavy-duty progressive platforms, along with his stance on abortion, gay marriage, taxes, etc. etc.

Why aren't more Democrats against the government spying on you?
Why aren't more Democrats against indefinite detention without trial?
Why aren't more Democrats against spending $17 trillion dollars of their children's money?
Why aren't more Democrats against bailing out banks with taxpayer money?
Why aren't more Democrats against Obama's policies that are the same or worse than the policies they hated Bush for?

Are Democrats simply hypocrites, or what?

 

[ElFenix]

What I think they ignore is common sense. I think it's dumb to expect the % of elected representatives (Dem or Repub) to match the % of votes. All a candidate needs is one more vote than the other guy to win office. Theoretically you could have a state with a ratio of Dem/Rep voters at 50.1/49.9 yet 100% of the winners being Dems.

While gerrymandering can be an issue, it's all too often overstated. I can see it having a impact around big cities with a large population, but that's very little of the USA.

Fern

geographically that's very little but most people live in 1,000,000+ MSAs.

 

[dank69]

...



Why aren't more Democrats against the government spying on you?
Why aren't more Democrats against indefinite detention without trial?
Why aren't more Democrats against spending $17 trillion dollars of their children's money?
Why aren't more Democrats against bailing out banks with taxpayer money?
Why aren't more Democrats against Obama's policies that are the same or worse than the policies they hated Bush for?

Are Democrats simply hypocrites, or what?

Can you explain to me real slowly what point you are trying to make here? Why are you bringing up what you think are Democrats' platforms while we are discussing Paul Ryan's positions? Is it because you can't refute what I said and now want to change the subject instead?

Regardless, most registered Democrats are against the spying & detention. Are you pretending that Republicans would do away with those two things? I'm not sure most registered Dems support the bailouts, either. Most of the criticism that Obama receives from Dems comes from him continuing Bush's policies. I honestly don't know where you are going here but it seems like you are trying to prove that Obama is Center-Right and you won't get any arguments from me about that. Oh, I also guess Obama owns all $17T of our debt now, too.

 

[BUnit1701]

Pres. Reagan granted amnesty to millions of illegals and Pres. Georgie Bush expressed his desire for the same thing.

Just say'in.

*edit - The folks you really need to get after to stop the flow of illegals are those big businesses who hire these illegals to work for slave labor pay.

With the promise that the boarder would be secured. Here we are 30 years later playing the same game again. 'Leagalize whats already here and we might think a little bit about securing the border.'

 

[dank69]

With the promise that the boarder would be secured. Here we are 30 years later playing the same game again. 'Leagalize whats already here and we might think a little bit about securing the border.'

So you still believe it is possible to secure the border?

 

[TerryMathews]

So you still believe it is possible to secure the border?

It IS possible to secure the border. Whether we have the desire to do it is another question.

 

[Wreckem]

17,000,000 democratic votes are going to be about as legitmate as Obama's presidency soon. What could possibly go wrong in the constitutional republic of America?

I got news for you. Even without amnesty, the demographics of legal citizens are changing and soon the GOP will be shit out of luck either way. In not so long, there will be red states that will be purple states and in play and there will be some current purple states that will become blue states. Not much longer after that some states that were solidly red would turn to be blue.

 

[Wreckem]

Yes, yes. Slashing Medicare and phasing out SS are some heavy-duty progressive platforms, along with his stance on abortion, gay marriage, taxes, etc. etc.

The post you were quoting was just extreme rightists trying to move the conservative goal post again.

 

[Wreckem]

The tea party isn't the party that is refusing to negotiate.

Then why did they prevent the Senate and House from going into conference committee months ago?

 

[dank69]

It IS possible to secure the border. Whether we have the desire to do it is another question.

Change desire to money and I'd be more likely to agree with you.

 

[Phokus]

Sorry youre tired of hearing it, but its still true. ACA is a fully Democratic endeavor. Members of the Democratic party dont like ACA either. Why are you so in love with it? Work for an insurance company?

Only because most of us prefer single payer, but it's rather absurd that a Democratic president can sign a Heritage foundation/90's GOP bill and the Republicans can be so up in arms over it. If Obama advocated breathing, conservatives would be holding their breathes.

 

[ivwshane]

Sounds like he's negotiating and compromising. Something Reid and Obama refuse to even attempt.


This is what happens when Reid and the Senate refuse to pass a real budget for four years and want to rely on continuing resolutions that were based on a one-time huge increase in spending and jam through Obamacare without a single Republican vote.



Why aren't more Democrats against the government spying on you?
Why aren't more Democrats against indefinite detention without trial?
Why aren't more Democrats against spending $17 trillion dollars of their children's money?
Why aren't more Democrats against bailing out banks with taxpayer money?
Why aren't more Democrats against Obama's policies that are the same or worse than the policies they hated Bush for?

Are Democrats simply hypocrites, or what?

Another fact free post! Congrats!

 

[NoStateofMind]

Libertarian theory is amazing for mental masturbation.

Or you know, moral?

Too bad for the libertarians we live in the real world where it would be a disaster.

LMFTFY

Too bad for libertarians with rational thought patterns cause the world we live in is based on compulsion which is immoral and unethical.

 

[ivwshane]

Or you know, moral?



LMFTFY

Too bad for libertarians with rational thought patterns cause the world we live in is based on compulsion which is immoral and unethical.

So you want a government ran by people who want their morals pressed upon the people?

Interesting.

 

[thraashman]

Or you know, moral?



LMFTFY

Too bad for libertarians with rational thought patterns cause the world we live in is based on compulsion which is immoral and unethical.

You know I've never met a libertarian who was sane. They all seem to be Republicans that someone removed the stupidity from and replaced it with insanity.

 

[dank69]

You know I've never met a libertarian who was sane. They all seem to be Republicans that someone removed the stupidity from and replaced it with insanity.

The stupidity is still there, it's just not tempered with sanity.

 

[schneiderguy]

You know I've never met a libertarian who was sane. They all seem to be Republicans that someone removed the stupidity from and replaced it with insanity.

I'm sane. My mother had me tested.