Thermal Paste and AMD 64 3700+ San Diego

[GamingDaemon]

Good Morning :sun:,

I have just bought all of the parts for the rig in my signature below. While I am not planning on overclocking right away, I probably will eventually. So...

1) Do I use thermal paste?
2) If I do use paste, how do I do it? Please be specific (pretend I have never done it before )
3) And which kind of paste should I use?

[*] MSI K8N SLI-F Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard
[*] AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Processor

TIA!

 

[RallyMaster]

1. Yes, you definitely should use thermal paste for better heat transfer as well as fill up the spaces between heatsink base and CPU.
2. Depends on the paste you use. Typically, we put one little drop of it in the middle of CPU, throw it into the motherboard, then just mount the heatsink, letting the heatsink spread it out.
3. That's your choice. JEDIYoda will definitely storm this building with "Thermal compounds do not matter! All of it will perform around the same! Each person's airflow and cooling is different!" I personally use Arctic Silver 5 (which JEDIYoda classifies as overrated), but I will soon switch to MX-1, just to see how well it REALLY performs against my paste.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster
1. Yes, you definitely should use thermal paste for better heat transfer as well as fill up the spaces between heatsink base and CPU.
2. Depends on the paste you use. Typically, we put one little drop of it in the middle of CPU, throw it into the motherboard, then just mount the heatsink, letting the heatsink spread it out.
3. That's your choice. JEDIYoda will definitely storm this building with "Thermal compounds do not matter! All of it will perform around the same! Each person's airflow and cooling is different!" I personally use Arctic Silver 5 (which JEDIYoda classifies as overrated), but I will soon switch to MX-1, just to see how well it REALLY performs against my paste.

ROFLROFL yeah JEDI should be storming this thread soon with his preaching. But he has some valid credibility to his statement. If you have money, and you just want the best, get AS5. If your poor and starving, use the one provided by the heatsink. Its about simple as that.

Also in most cases, if the tim is white, you'll need a rice grain size on the middle of the cpu and another on the middle of the heat sink. If its AS5, u'll just need a rice grain size on the middle of the CPU and then squish it with your heatsink so it forms a small circle about the size of a dime $0.10 cent peice incase ur not from the US.

Remember too much TIM will do the opposite and bring about higher temps then lower it. Too little and you'll have microbubbles which will cook your cpu as well.

 

[Cerb]

1. If you want. If you want to eventually OC, get a nice HS&F, and get some AS Ceramique or AS5.
2. Never done it? Forget the AS5, get the Ceramique (easy to use, and being non-conductive, you can be sloppy).

Clean the chip and bottom of the heatsink, using a lint-free cloth, or cheap napkins (like fast food places use, that aren't porous at all). I use such napkins all the time for it, but technically a lint-free cloth is better. Alcohol is safe, but you might want to wait a bit after use, since some of it is water. For the heatsink, acetone works well, but may be hard to find (nail polish remover with oils and such in it are not the same thing!), and is likely very bad for electronics. There are dedicated cleaners, AS now makes one, but I've not tried them.

Put a small amount on, like pinhead-sized, and use a new razor blade, or smooth flat plastic edge, to smooth it out over the bottom of the heatsink base or top of the chip. Get as thin a layer as you can while keeping it even. This may take a few minutes, and you may need a little more TIM (aigomorla's rice grain is probably a better size estimate for a IHS). With a thick one, like Ceramique, just under playing card thin is about as good as it gets, IME. Make sure it's even to the naked eye. If you can get it really thin, it doesn't hurt to do it on the HS and the chip, but I think it's a waste of TIM.

The installation and then heat from the CPU will cause it to thin out. Ideally, if you remove it a week or more later, the area over the die ot middle of the IHS should just have a glossy shine to it, but no obvious layer of TIM near the die, but with a ring around it (where it was forced out from the pressure). So don't pile it on. Get just enough to cover the area you need, and no more.

Then, follow normal install instructions.

3. See 1 and 2. The performance difference isn't great, but it is there, and IMO, Ceramique is the most idiot-proof paste out there. So far I've only had one bubble using it, and it wasn't fatal (I think bubbles are less likely on chips with a IHS, but I could be wrong).

 

[GamingDaemon]

Great feedback! Thank you!

Now what if I decide to use the provided thermal pad (or whatever you call it) that comes with the HSF? If I do that, can I use Arctive Silver later on when I decide to overclock? Or will it be too late?

 

[RallyMaster]

You can use Arctic Silver later on, but you will have to clean the heatsink of the old stuff as well as clean the CPU of any stuff that's stuck to it.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: GamingDaemon
Great feedback! Thank you!

Now what if I decide to use the provided thermal pad (or whatever you call it) that comes with the HSF? If I do that, can I use Arctive Silver later on when I decide to overclock? Or will it be too late?

O M G do not use that crappy thermal PAD. Get a credit card, and i say credit card because there plastic and soft and scrape that pad off the bottom. Then use rubbing alcohol and wipe the base clean and then apply AS5 or whatever TIM u decide to use. That pad just SUCKS in cooling. :X

 

[GamingDaemon]

Doh! Everyone is saying something different!

Well, the parts have been delivered and I am planning on building it tonight. No time to obtain Artic Silver from NewEgg. So can I use stuff from CompUsa? Like this?

 

[aigomorla]

THATS AS5 but packaged from a different company. It says AS5 and from a company like mad dog, if it wasnt the real AS5, i think they would get UBER MAJORLY SUED. So yes its good enough. Kinda pricey tho if i say so myself as you could get it at the egg for 5.99 :\

OP, also forgot to tell you. if you have a frys in your area, they sell AS5 for 7.99 that might be a better solution.

 

[GamingDaemon]

I am willing to pay the little bit extra so that I can start building the rig tonight. And I found a Frys on the web but it was mostly a left coast thing...I'm on the right coast.

I'm still a little on the fence as to whether I should use the AS5 mainly because this is only my 2nd build and my 1st AMD rig. Sigh. On the other hand, I don't want to waste the $800 investment. At this point I am 60/40 leaning toward uisng the AS5.

 

[GamingDaemon]

To reply to myself...

Now that think about it, wouldn't it be better to use the stock paste that comes with the stock HSF in order to get a baseline.

Then, when I OC, upgrade to AS5, so I can see the temperatures go down.

That makes sense to me and removes the fear of doing the AS5 right out of the box.

 

[Cerb]

Then do that. With a IHS, even thick gummy pads aren't hard to clean off later on.

 

[RallyMaster]

I did AS5 right out of the box. It's not that hard to work with.

 

[aigomorla]

i always do AS5 right out of the box.

Theres pictures and detailed instructions on the artic silver 5 website. If your really in doubt print it out while you do it. But i told you its REALLY REALLY easy.

Just put a little bit (rice grain) in the middle of the cpu. Then put the heat sink on top and apply a little bit of pressure, then attach the heatsink. The AS5 will then form a little circle under the heat sink where your real DIE is located. Thats where you want to make sure you have no microbubbles.

But anyhow i think im too late for you to put AS5 on by now. :X

 

[GamingDaemon]

Yeah, I didn't use the AS5 paste and am getting temps of 41C when I run FEAR.

Bu I have to say, this rig seems slower than the one I built last week with an Intel P4 940 D. I know it is a dual core and the 3700+ is not, but even FEAR seemed slower.

I will start a new thread on this to see what people have to say...

 

[Vikendios]

The real issue to worry about is : Do you plan to ever change CPU's on your motherboard ? Be advised that some of these goos cure so well that your CPU will be bonded to its radiator, and if you can't lift the radiator off the CPU there's no way you can access the release lever from the motherboard, at least on 939's.

Be forewarned !!!!

 

[soydios]

41C isn't too shabby.

Never ever use the thermal pad that comes with a stock heatsink if you plan to swtich to a paste. The thermal pad melts and contaminates the surface of the heatspreader. I always just use Arctic Silver 5 from the start. And AS5 really isn't that expensive, it's like $10 for enough for the small size tube (and you don't need much if you do it right).

 

[DerwenArtos12]

TEH WINNAH!

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
TEH WINNAH!

Uh, he needs a Copper/Silver HSF to use that stuff, because it eats away at aluminum. It may not even be safe to use it on a Copper-based HSF like the Freezer 64 pro because it could eat away the solder on the heatpipes.

Btw AS5 and AC MX-1 are probably the best "normal" thermal compounds out there, and from what RallyMaster and I have seen MX-1 results in temps a couple of C lower than AS5. Still, the difference between generic compound and something like MX1 is only a few degrees.