thermal paste and AMD's

[SpeedTrap]

would radio shack thermal paste work for default cooling on a 1.4 tbird non-oced? and how thick do you layer it and any sites showing this?

 

[WarCon]

The "grease" part of the Radio Shack thermal compound is not stable enough at the heat of an AMD(It dries up really fast and leaves air pockets). My personal recommendation is Arctic Silver II, because its heat stabilized at AMD heat levels. There are other normal thermal compounds that are stabilized at higher heats, but Radio Shack goop isn't.

 

[NightTrain]

I used AS on my 1.33 but the debate still rages over it. I've put together some P3's with the Radio Shack stuff and like it as well...it's very smooth. The stuff that came with my retail Tbird was very gritty so I tossed it.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

 

[SpeedTrap]

i have some of that copper sh1t. dotn use that sh1t i take it either?

 

[Richardito]

Any commercial quality thermal grease should do it. And this includes the ones containing zinc oxide, silver or copper.

 

[jscobie]

im running a overclocked duron from 800 to 950 and a celeron 600 to 966, both using radio shack goop with little troubles as of 5 months on the duron and 7 on the celery. plus my celery runs 3 degrees cooler than my friends celery (equally equipped mobo, ram, and HSF) only difference is he uses AS. basically no one here has tried AS and tested it against Radio Shack's, they only go by what they hear or see on the net. do you think anyone selling AS would tell you Radio Shack is very comparable for like 1/3 the cost? NO, but i have never went out and decided to spend that much on AS goop. so i cant say my friend has his applied the same way i do.

 

[Compellor]

WarCon said:


<< The &quot;grease&quot; part of the Radio Shack thermal compound is not stable enough at the heat of an AMD(It dries up really fast and leaves air pockets). >>



By saying &quot;really fast,&quot; what kind of time frame are you referring to? I used the Radio Shack stuff on a Duron 600@850 in October of last year (over 8 months ago) and just recently pulled it out and replaced it with a 1 GHz T-bird and the grease was still ok on the Duron (no sign of dryness).

 

[dawgfan]

I've used both the radio shack and artic silver compounds. I get the same temps w/ either compound on a FCPGA P3 600 @ 800-864 mhz (mid 20's idle, low 40's max load) w/ a GORB. The artic silver didn't enable me to clock faster or add stability for me. I followed the directions, applied, and reapplied several times looking for the improvement, but it just never materialized. On a hotter, faster CPU like yours, though, it may have greater benefit.

 

[Wingznut]

I think the greater benefit lies in the long term. Exactly as WarCon said, &quot;The &quot;grease&quot; part of the Radio Shack thermal compound is not stable enough at the heat of an AMD(It dries up really fast and leaves air pockets).&quot;

 

[Richardito]

Thermal compound is made from two or three componenets: silicone fluid, filler and fumed silica. The silicone fluid is electricaly insulating and acts as the medium for the filler to be dispersed in (sometimes it also aids in the heat transfer). The filler can be zinc oxide, aluminum oxide, copper, silver, etc. and it's purpose is to transfer the heat from the cpu to the HS. Zinc oxide is mainly used because it is an electrical insulator as well. The fumed silica is sometimes added to increase the viscosity of the finished paste and eliminate the 'thinning out' at higher temperatures. What people call 'drying' is when the fluid contains a significant amount of volatiles or lower molecular weight silicone polymers that evaporate at operational temperatures. This can be reduced by using a higher molecular weight silicone fluid, but they all contain volatiles. And basically all thermal compounds will dry up in time.

 

[DukeN]

the radio shack stuff has worked so far on my 1.2 ghz (not o/ced)

Could be getting screwy in the future tho (hope it does'nt)

 

[elkinm]

The best thermal compound is Arctic Silver/II by far. It keeps it cool and it never hardens or dries out. You also want the thinest possible layer as any thermal comound still has a significant amount of resistance.

 

[Richardito]

<< The best thermal compound is Arctic Silver/II by far. It keeps it cool and it never hardens or dries out. You also want the thinest possible layer as any thermal comound still has a significant amount of resistance. >>



I'm sorry, but no test has proven that AS is the best thermal compound by far. A lot of people just say what they think, with little basis on hard facts. Some tests have even proven there is no difference between AS and a high quality thermal compund.

 

[frankroh]

Ditto Richardito.

You can buy silver thermal compounds for 1/2 the cost from eletrical suppliers like Grainger, Greybar etc. I would say they are as good as the supposed best Arctic Silver.

Hell, I just used the white thermal paste that came with my Vantec and my 1.33 is running at 43 degrees while OC'ed to 1.5

 

[tea217]

I am new to this thermal compound stuff...
can anyone please explain THOROUGHLY what does it do?
And....do i have to use it with AMD cpu's.....??????

THX

 

[Nevin]

Richardito,

You said:

<< I'm sorry, but no test has proven that AS is the best thermal compound by far. >>

There are links to 42 tests that say exactly that on our site.

Links to 42 Arctic Silver tests

When you denigrate Arctic Silver you should also mention that you are planning to sell your own thermal compound so that people will know where you are coming from.

Nevin House
Arctic Silver LLC

 

[SpeedTrap]

well when they give it to you for free of course its good

 

[Nevin]

So since Anand gets everything he reviews for free, all of his reviews are bogus?

Nevin

 

[kgraeme]

<< I am new to this thermal compound stuff...
can anyone please explain THOROUGHLY what does it do?
And....do i have to use it with AMD cpu's.....??????

THX >>



The goal is to get heat out of the processor, into the heatsink and into the air. Due to the realities of nature and manufacturing, the heatsinks are rarely perfectly smooth. Placing a heatsink in a bare-metal contact with the CPU will still have pockets of air in the surface irregularities. Air doesn't transfer heat as well as metal, so we need something to fill up the air pockets and make a more thermally conductive connection.

Thermal compounds are typically some metal in a suspension of goo. Putting this between the CPU and heatsink helps improve the heat transfer. There's a bit of an art to it, too little and you may not get a good seal, too much and you may actually insulate instead of transfer. And as the discussion here goes, there's some disagreement as to which thermal compound is best.

Do you need it? With a Duron/Athlon, yes! The question really becomes what kind? The discussion here is about third-party grease. Retail processors which come with a heatsink will have some sticky goo already attached to the heatsink. In the past these were actually thermal tape, adhesive pads that purported to be thermally conductive. Many people claim they did more harm than good, and they were certainly right as processors got hotter. Nowadays that goo is a thermal phase-change compound which is fully endorsed and recommended by AMD. And in my own unscientific tests, it does about the same as most of the thermal grease out there. And the AMD warranty only covers the retail CPU WITH the HSF and goo it came with.

The two biggest downsides to the thermal phase-change goo is: 1. If you overclock, you are exceeding AMD's tested configuration, so there's no garauntee the goo will perform. 2. If you are swapping heatsinks regularaly because of testing, tinkering, whatever, then the thermal phase-change material has got to go, preferably before you use it. Once it's applied, it's like getting gum out.

Personally, I use Arctic Silver II. That's based solely on the popularity of the product.

 

[tea217]

kgraeme:

if i bought an oem cpu, does that come with a HSF and thermal compound..??
And....does CPU's have a HSF on them already? Just maybe no the thermal compound, rite?

thx again

 

[WarCon]

For all of you who think Radio Shack goop is good, go ahead and use it. I personally think spending $7 dollars (www.axion.com) isn't that big a deal to get something that I know (absolutely, without a doubt) is heat stabilized enough to handle 80+ watts of heat that I am putting out and from researching has a lower C/W than any of the other compounds (Check it your chemistry book, its under silver in suspension). Whether it makes a difference to what my socket thermistor says, I don't care. Because other people I trust (Mikewarrior2) have used it and compared it to other compounds in a Pentium III with on die thermistor and it shows a definite difference.

Honestly, I don't care if you use Radio Shack compound. I don't sell any of the compounds, but no system that leaves my house will ever have Radio Shack compound on it (or that stays in my house for that matter).

 

[savoyl1]

Nevin. If you send me some for free I'll do an honest review of the Arctic silver. Everyone knows how Honest Canadians are, and so polite too.

 

[Richardito]

<< When you denigrate Arctic Silver you should also mention that you are planning to sell your own thermal compound so that people will know where you are coming from.

Nevin House
Arctic Silver LLC >>



Ok, and from where are you coming from... You, more than anyone else, have a monetary stake on Artic Silver and convincing people to keep on buying it helps to grow your wallet. Your comments are as subjective and biased as they can be. Are you scared because of my comments in an old thread? Manufacturing thermal grease is not rocket science... I've been preparing thermal grease and epoxy adhesive for awhile now for my own personal use. I don't know if I'll ever go commercial, but I'm still thinking about it.

I checked out some of the links for the ASII reviews. The sites either compare ASII to AS (WTF?) and ASII vs Radio Shack's compound or a generic brand. The key to my statement is 'high quality thermal compound'. The generic or RS's thermal compounds cannot be refered as such. Comparing a Hyundai vs a Honda doesn't makes sense, does it? Neither does the reviews. Take a close look at the reviews and they all seem to be very similar in their choice of words. Some paragraphs are even exact copies, word by word. I really don't like when reviewers state as a fact information that they got from the manufacturer without independent verification. Reviews should be based on pure facts and logical comparisons, not buzz words. IMHO as a scientist I can say that the mayority of these reviews are just trash. There isn't enough data to reach an educated conclusion refering to AS's performance.


FYI some of those review links are broken.

 

[Archknight]

<<kgraeme:

if i bought an oem cpu, does that come with a HSF and thermal compound..??
And....does CPU's have a HSF on them already? Just maybe no the thermal compound, rite?>>

OEM don't usually comes with HSF and thermal compound unless ordered separately. A working CPU yes, a HSF have to be on it or it will get burn. Thermal compound maybe, on the althon or duron most likely, it needed. Type of thermal compound is on it may not be the best or as good as some other brands.

Edit: I am not kgraeme, just trying to help

 

[frankroh]

The dumbest comparison test from AS's links is one that compares arctic silver to thermal pads. Yea! Now that's comparing apples to apples!

Then they gleefully championed arctic silver and shamelessly plug a vendor that sells the stuff.

Man, this Overclockedhardware.com is a f*cking joke: They have GRAND TOTAL OF 8 REVIEWS!!! All the reviews plug some retailer. Trustworthy website, uh-huh.