>>WARNING: This may appear to be a flame. It is NOT. I am simply voicing my long-held beliefs on a topic on which I have extremely strong convictions, and about which, I have held my tongue to long. No one individual should take offense, as this is not directed at any ONE person.<<
No individual should. But perhaps the group as a whole should. You cannot deny someone's personal experience and calling people liars just makes you look like a schmuck. I didn't see anyone in this thread claim to be an expert, except you.
>> 1) I believe (and logic dictates) that the ONLY reason AMD recommends/requires thermal phase change material on "AMD Approved" heatsinks is that the phase change material acts as a PAD to cushion the very fragile core, thus reducing the occurrences of fractured cores.<<
You believe? You believe? What proof do you have?
>>2) Thermal phase change material is INFERIOR IN PERFORMANCE to almost ANY decent Aluminum Oxide based thermal compound, and definitely inferior to Arctic Silver. This is a matter of hard, cold, physics and is undisputable scientific fact. IF ANYONE gets a "cooler" temp with phase change material, they are either 1) NOT measuring a true and accurate CPU core temp, 2) making a serious measurement/procedural error, 3) deluded, or 4) lying. Sorry to offend anyone, but I'm just telling it like it is.<<
You've left out other possibilities. The fact that the tape pad is thicker than the film created by grease and thus the pressure between the CPU and sink is higher, fact that the paste wraps around the core when pressure is applied thus transferring heat from the sides in addition to the top of core... etc.
>> 3) You CANNOT measure the CPU core temp of an AMD processor. It simply cannot be done, sorry. Thus you CANNOT use an AMD CPU as the basis of a temperature based comparisons between thermal materials.<<
True. But, all things being equal, an 8 degree drop measured by the same circuit on the same CPU when the CPU has not been removed is still an 8 degree drop to the casing which indicates that in all probability that the core is cooler. It may be external temperature, but it not entirely invalid, though the people who worship Intel thinks it is.
>> I am so sick and tired of every "Johnny-come-lately" with a thermistor, teenage wannabe engineers, and "Gotta Have Brand X; your wrong, I'm right no matter what
the facts say; I have a website, so I'm an expert.... my hit counter proves it; and idiots of ALL ages continually posting not only misleading, but downright wrong
information, results, procedures, half-assed "scientific" comparisons, etc, etc.... ad freakin' nauseum on the Forums and so-called hardware review websites.<<
I've been working on PC hardware since 1982. I've done everything on them from assembly language and C++ to circuit design and building my own interface cards. I follow up on things I'm unclear about with my brother at TI, one of their leading analog designers who holds several patents in networking technology analogy circuitry. I've never been given a wrong answer by him.... so far .
>>
The fact is that there are virtually NO true experts anywhere around online. <<
And your posting certainly proves that.
>>Some of us are "smarter than the average bear", and a very few of us actually know what we are talking about when we post.... and even these few sometimes make mistakes occasionally. Even knowledgeable folks make errors at times.<<<
>>> BUT, there are a LARGE number of folks passing themselves off in the Computer Hardware, Performance, and Cooling Community as EXPERTS, when in fact they don't really know their collective asses from the proverbial "hole in the ground." This fact is (which unfortunately is NOT generally recognized by the majority of
knowledge seekers on the Net/Forums) that these so-called "reviewers" generally are not even remotely competent to review toilet paper, much less the vast array of hardware they regularly suck up for FREE from the manufacturer (or small-business.... usually online-type). Now you can't really fault the businesses, as they are simply out for a little "free/low-cost" advertising in their own self-interest.... not entirely "Kosher", but at least it's understandable.... and obvious.<<<
True. But coming off as high and mighty doesn't help your cause but rather makes it appear that you fit in the same category.
>>> The guys running these "review" sites would have you think that THEY are "Moses come down from the Mount" to deliver the "divine law" on computer hardware.
Wake up y'all.... They aren't.... None of them are.... A few.... VERY few, are knowledgeable enough that I would be comfortable saying that "OK, you can listen to
them as an opinion... but NOT an authority." Sadly, MOST of the current review sites are MUCH more interested in their visitor counts, and page views, than in the
accuracy or quality of the content and conclusions they publish.<<<
I'm in total agreement with this one. My primary reason for visiting these sites is to find out who's having success or failure with their hardware before I make a purchase. I'm not here to ask about the radio interference levels of XYZ case/motherboard combination.
-snip-
>>seen it happen people.... I mean, what well-respected engineer or other recognized expert is going to keep coming back to these Forums <<<
Since you're here I guess that means you're neither a well-respected engineer nor a recognized expert?
>>>when they keep having to endure idiots and pimply-faced
teenagers disparaging them, disputing fact with supposition and fiction, and generally acting like jack-asses. <<<
Its not just the pimply-faced teenagers acting like jack-asses. Look in the mirror.
>>>The sane choice is to say, "Screw it! Let 'em drown in
their own ignorance. I'm out?a here!"<<<<
That's why for true engineering concepts, I go elsewhere. CPU cooling ain't rocket science and experience counts for a lot in situations such as this. If I want to discuss thermal break-down in a chip if the chip gets too hot, I go elsewhere. If I want to know which heat sinks users have had good experiences with, I come here.
-snip-
>>> People, it's more than just whether heatsink X is better than heatsink Y, or Spacely Sprockets are better or worse than Cogswell Cogs.... It is much more serious
than that. We have a serious problem here (and elsewhere). <<<<
For crying out loud, its only a stinking CPU being overclocked!!! The users here aren't designing thermal night goggles or using single bit samplers to achieve 32 bit sampling by using 32x clock rates with an averaging circuit. There's a lot of serious discussion with really good engineers on the net ---- but if you really ever expected to get it here, then perhaps you need to quit taking yourself so seriously and spend a little time finding the sites and usenet groups!
>>>>There is a serious shortage of critical thinking skills in the world an particularly here in the Computer
Enthusiast community. <<<
--snip--
>>>> Do you want to know what is REALLY sad? Some of the folks who manage the attention span to read this entire post simply won't "get it". <<<<<
I "get it." I've also seen hundreds of demi-god elitists such as yourself on the net since the 1980s. Its no better now in message boards than it was then in newsgroups. There's always some self-proclaimed net-cop or Einstein spouting off how screwed the rest of the world is and how much better it would be if only people did it their way. This is no different than a couple of drunks in a bar discussing how to make the world a better place except its on a different plain. Rather than talk about how inferior everyone else is, go find serious engineering discussion elsewhere and show how much you truly know. Maybe some of the experts will take you down a notch or two?
I enjoy serious engineering discussion. But not many serious sites are going to have a forum where user's have shared their REAL WORLD experience with something as trivial as cooling a CPU.
>>>
They are already
well-integrated into the "flock". They've surrendered their minds to the "Big Lie" and its relative ilk. They've sold their freedom for comfort and leisure. You see, to the
well-indoctrinated, folks like me appear as the exception rather than the rule. When folks like me... those who stand up, make logical arguments, challenge
"established" norms, express new/different ideas, etc... speak out without equivocation, we are branded "out there", "extreme", blah, blah, yadda freakin' yadda....<<<
Nope, I don't think you're "out there" or "extreme." Comical, yes. You take yourself a little seriously too. Did you notice that in all your blah blah blah about everyone else, you did not submit a single fact? So you're no different than the flock you claim to be higher than.
If you want to talk serious engineering, lets do it. But flaming everyone who doesn't have a degree in <insert discipline here> is elitist and makes you look like you think your crap doesn't stink.
Ken Payne
Ford Truck Enthusiasts
http://www.ford-trucks.com
"The problem with Xerox is they've never come up with anything original."