Thermalright Ultima 90 is out :)

[swatX]

I got my Ultima 90. It looks very much like the Ultra Ex except the size diffrence. i will take some pics when i get some time. Unfortunately i have to wait till the G0 comes in.

 

[Quiksilver]

sounds interesting I'm curious about how the temps will do, if they are on par with the 120-E/tuniq it sounds worth it.

 

[swatX]

Originally posted by: QuiksilverX1
sounds interesting I'm curious about how the temps will do, if they are on par with the 120-E/tuniq it sounds worth it.

accoring the ZS user review, it performed better than a tuniq

 

[VinDSL]

Hey, you guys should hold out for a little while longer...

I heard that Thermalwrong is coming out with an Ultra eXtreme-90, Ultima-120, and eventually an Ultima Ultra eXtreme 120 Pro around Christmas - that will actually beat a Tuniq Tower 120!

If that doesn't do it , the IFX-Ultra-Ultima 28 Pro is supposed to beat the Tuniq Tower 120, but be won't be available until Feb 2008...

 

[zagood]

lol...you should write for the inq.

-z

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
Hey, you guys should hold out for a little while longer...

I heard that Thermalwrong is coming out with an Ultra eXtreme-90, Ultima-120, and eventually an Ultima Ultra eXtreme 120 Pro around Christmas - that will actually beat a Tuniq Tower 120!

If that doesn't do it , the IFX-Ultra-Ultima 28 Pro is supposed to beat the Tuniq Tower 120, but be won't be available until Feb 2008...

Yes, well all get it now - you own a Tuniq Tower and you think it is the only choice for everyone. Too bad no one gives a shit.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'll accept the fact that Anandtech's May 5 review got the Tuniq a solid second-place.

I also think I should take time to snitch out Sunbeam Tech to Federal Trade Commission -- for allowing several shipments of the "Theta 101" to US resellers that do about as much as a three-pin-to-four-pin-Molex conversion wire in "thermally controlling" fan-speeds.

At least you can't nail ThermalRight for falling short over "truth in advertising" . . . .

 

[Eeyore69]

I just received my Ultima-90. Be aware that with the fan mounting clips provided (both 90mm and 120mm) you can only mount a 1" thick fan. This is because the clip mounts to the outside of the fan and not to the near edge as most Thermalright heatsinks do. If you want to use a thicker fan, as I do, then some other mounting method will have to be employed. For now I am going to be using the supplied mounting clips and plastic ties to mount my 1.5" thick fan. If anyone has already come up with a better method please let me know.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Eeyore69
I just received my Ultima-90. Be aware that with the fan mounting clips provided (both 90mm and 120mm) you can only mount a 1" thick fan... For now I am going to be using the supplied mounting clips and plastic ties to mount my 1.5" thick fan...

I've heard that 3M duct tape works pretty good on Thermalwrongs too...

 

[Eeyore69]

I think I will stay away from the duct tape. I would hate to have a 3300rpm fan fall into the motherboard and case. Another idea I have is to find proper length spacers and screw them onto the fan between the two corners. This way I would have holes at the proper distance for the clips to mount into. Slightly more elegant a method of mounting but more effort than the plastic ties.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: Eeyore69
I think I will stay away from the duct tape. I would hate to have a 3300rpm fan fall into the motherboard and case...

How about a needle and thread? You could embroider it... Or use some fishing line?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I've noticed that some of our visitors here have an aversion to DIY solutions, whether they are elegant, or function well with the appearance of being "kloodge-ey."

I saw where someone recently said "No way! No way I'm going to put fans in my case with wire ties!!"

Fact is, though, that you can use wire ties to attach a 120x38mm fan to a ThermalRight -- or any other cooler -- in such a way that it looks like it came from the factory that way.

You just need to use two wire ties instead of one for each fan mount. And perhaps buy colored wire-ties. The square "buckle" ends of the wire ties hold the fan to the cooler just like the ends of sil-rubber fan mounts, except that they are square and not round. Instead of looping a single wire tie around to secure it in the square buckle, you run the other end through the buckle of a second wire tie, tighten them up, and snip off the two belt ends.

The only nuisance is in the occasional need for removal and replacement. But a package of a hundred wire ties can be had for a dollar or two. You can get them in black, white, red, yellow, purple, green, etc.

I can see how people who buy ready-made OEM computers come to this site for various emergencies and ideas. But if you're building a computer from scratch, you should be open to the idea of using junk and discard and turning it to good purpose. The elegant case-mods you see on the web did not result from someone sending their computer to a factory for customization and "Voila!"

And if I have a choice between a cooler that comes with a fan and one that doesn't --- I'll pick the cooler that has the lowest thermal resistance, without regard to the inconvenience of buying a fan separately for it. I've already seen here in recent days a post from someone who had discovered a bearing-rattle in their Zalman-9700 fan. Yet Zalman has made some good fans. If you want perfection, you'll have to get your hands dirty.

Get your tool-kits together and service your computers!

 

[Eeyore69]

I don't see a way of using plastic ties to secure the upper portion of the fan to the heatsink since the fan sticks above the heatsink. But I am thinking of re-bending the standard clips to fit or maybe just drilling additional clip mounting holes in the heatsink fins themselves positioning them farther inboard so the clip will clamp to the nearside of the fan. I'll have to think about it and decide which way to go.

I still have time since I need to lap the heatsink since it is not flat. It is highly polished but just not flat. And after I burn-in the cpu for awhile to make sure it doesn't crap out I will lap it also. I sure wish cpu manufacturers would do this since it would save me time. But then what else do I have to do but lap a cpu? And I do like DIY projects anyway.

 

[swtethan]

http://www.anandtech.com/casec...us/showdoc.aspx?i=3068 anandtech review

 

[gorobei]

the Anand review is pretty interesting. The downsizing and reduction in number of fins from the 120extreme[52fins/12pipes(6u pipes)] to ultima90[48fins/12pipes(6u pipes)] seems to be less important than the number of heatpipes. [you would think the scythe ninja would do better in the overclock scaling if this is the case. 23fins/12(6u)pipes] Wonder when they'll make the jump to 16 pipes(8u pipes).

If other reviews confirm the general performance, I'll probably buy one when I switch to a C2Q. (Anybody know if there have been any tests of the 120extreme with C2Q?)

I just wish AT gave more information about the airflow for the case used and the mounting orientation of the HS.

 

[Acanthus]

Why dont they include quad temps in the reviews

They are the "thermal nightmares" right now.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Why dont they include quad temps in the reviews

They are the "thermal nightmares" right now.

cause its kinda hard to get all the heatsinks to quad when they already tested on x6800

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Why dont they include quad temps in the reviews

They are the "thermal nightmares" right now.

cause its kinda hard to get all the heatsinks to quad when they already tested on x6800

Gotta start somewhere...

They can do a few and at least give us a ballpark, the thermal loads are so vastly different.

Not that i care much about air cooling

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: Eeyore69
I don't see a way of using plastic ties to secure the upper portion of the fan to the heatsink since the fan sticks above the heatsink. But I am thinking of re-bending the standard clips to fit or maybe just drilling additional clip mounting holes in the heatsink fins themselves positioning them farther inboard so the clip will clamp to the nearside of the fan. I'll have to think about it and decide which way to go.

I still have time since I need to lap the heatsink since it is not flat. It is highly polished but just not flat. And after I burn-in the cpu for awhile to make sure it doesn't crap out I will lap it also. I sure wish cpu manufacturers would do this since it would save me time. But then what else do I have to do but lap a cpu? And I do like DIY projects anyway.

_________________

Sorry about that, Eeyore69. I forgot about the 120mm fan-option. Even so, there are probably any number of fixes to that situation which still use wire-ties, although wire-ties aren't the only way to go.

_________________

THE LATEST REVIEW ON THE ULTIMA 90
_________________

Well, this is a slight surprise, since another review had actually shown performance which exceeded the Sunbeam Tuniq. Here, they show it neck-and-neck and tied, depending on fan choice.

I'm again wondering -- Eeyore69 and others may know firsthand -- if they continued with this convex-base design, when all of us have deplored that choice. If so, I'd expect the earlier review in comparison to the Tuniq to be vindicated, even if the test and results were somehow unscrupulously skewed in the Ultima's favor with that review. I was actually hoping that the Ultima would equal the performance of the U-120-Extreme, but what can you expect?

Looks like I'll be keeping my "Extreme" on the Quad-core, and choosing the Ultima 90 for use in a smaller case for a dual-core I'm building for another member of the family as a Xmas gift.

On the matter of the X6800 test-bench choice. It's clear to me that the over-clocked thermal dissipation for the C2Q doesn't scale like the C2D processor, but you could intuitively understand why that's the case. That is, beyond the stock TDP difference between 65W and 105W, the number of cores in the C2Q would have a non-linear impact, I would think.

But for comparing different coolers, ANY choice of current processor will do -- we only need a test-configuration that is consistent between all coolers tested. How that translates into "adequacy" for the C2Q is another matter, but those of us running the C2Q on air would agree that either the Ultima or the U-120-Extreme are more than adequate -- as is the Tuniq.

We'd still like to see advances in heatpipe-cooler performance such that idle-to-load spreads are reduced further, and such that temperatures at both idle and load are lower.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Incidentally, EEyore69 --

As much as I like that little 0.28A Panaflo 92mm fan, I think -- with a little tinkering -- one could mount the original Intel 0.40A fan on the Ultima 90.

 

[Eeyore69]

BonzaiDuck,

I don't believe I was the one talking about Panaflo fans. I am looking at a 120mm fan that draws .7A at 120cfm and a 92mm fan that draws 1.0A at 105cfm. One of the reasons that I would rather use the 120mm is the sound. While both are loud the 92mm has a high pitched whine (kind of like a jet engine) that is really aggravating even at lower speeds. And I also read in another forum where someone tested a 120mm vs 90mm and the 120mm was 3 degrees celsius cooler. It is hard to tell if that was really accurate since he didn't mention the type or characteristics of the fans. He thought it was because the 120mm fan was wider and tended to cover the outside fin/heatpipe area better. I wish I had saved the page since he was also going to try putting a second fan on the heatsink in a push-pull arrangement. That could be interesting since the fins are fairly close together and may be restricting flow; instead of getting the full 120cfm the heatsink may only be seeing 80-90cfm. Putting two fans together does not get you double the airflow but it does give more pressure so that you will get closer to the 120cfm airflow.

Also I have a question. You mentioned the original Intel fan as drawing .40A. The fan that came with my Q6600 G0 heatsink (only 95w instead of the B3's higher wattage) is marked that it draws .14A. Did they change fans from the B3 to the G0?

As far as the convex base design goes I don't know. Every heatsink and cpu I have bought has had a convex surface that I had to lap. I even lapped the old plastic flip chip P3 which was interesting; underneath the blue epoxy coating was a mirror silver base. The manufacturers must know that a convex surface against a convex surface won't make good contact for cooling. I just believe that the manufacturers don't want to spend the time (which means money) to do it right. Of course, I didn't look at the base of the Intel heatsink. Perhaps they made the base of it concave to match the convex mounting surface of the cpu. Yeah right!

I also read in another forum that the overclocked dissipation in the Q6600 G0 is better than the B3 along with its' overall lower power requirement.

Not to say anything. But Christmas is a long way off. How long does it take to build a system (LOL)?

Excellent discussion and keep up the DIYing.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Xmas: There was a time I'd just order parts and slap them together and accept things for what they were. This time, I have "spares." I could either put up the E6600 that's been replaced with the Q6600 B3 on EBay, or "do this holiday thing." I have SOO MUCH stuff from the prior technology-generation that has to go -- I've got fans up the wazzoo to sell.

I'm looking at the Q6600 fan. With the more imposing label "Intel," It's made by NIDEC Corp, and has the markings:

D34052-002
N75060
F09A-12B4S3
01AC1H1(CX)
DC12V 0.40A
NIDEC CORP.

I'm stunned if the stock fan you have is only using 0.14A of current. Or -- it seems obvious to me that this is a 0.40 Amp fan, and it would really shatter my confidence if it wasn't (given what seems to be a very clear spec in the markings.)

Somehow, a difference of 10W in the TDP spec doesn't seem sufficient to warrant a drop from a 0.4A fan to a 0.14A fan. Dunno . . . .

I can see the reasoning behind preferring a 120mm fan. I could also see building a stubby duct or shroud (foam board, again) between a 120mm exhaust fan and the posterior side of the Ultima, so that instead of several square inches of fin-coverage blowing past the top of the Ultima, you'd be using the entire power of the 120mm to suck air through a cooler that seems like a better fit (in size) to a 92mm fan. Since there were a plethora of acrylic 120->92mm fan adapters being sold in recent years from places like FrozenCPU, it would even seem like that sort of thing might be done, but I haven't got definite ideas for th particulars.

Somebody else -- MrDr__ somebody here in the forums -- suggested that the thermal resistance of these TR coolers did not have an absolute limit of their tested values for conventional fan placement or fan speeds like 2,500 rpm. We were discussing the possibility that most people dismiss immediately on "dBA" grounds of using a Delta to push 150 CFM through the fins. But suppose you had two 120mm exhaust fans, as do I, and you built a funnel-shaped duct around both which tapered to a 120mm square at the edge of -- say -- a TR Ultra 120 Extreme? (or an Ultima 90, etc.). Even if they were ALSO Delta tri-blades, you could run them both at less than 2,500 rpm with dBA more likely in the 30's, and still get a similar effect.

In my case, one of those fans is set up to draw air from my motherboard duct panel and from beneath the motherboard. But the available area and volume through which that air is being pulled is small enough that one could "leak" some of the draw from that fan so that it also pulls air through the CPU cooler fins with the other 120mm fan, and still provide a powerful draw from the mobo duct and mobo-underside. I'll want to think about that some more . . .

 

[Eeyore69]

You sound like me with all of the left over parts. I save almost everything but some of the components get so old that no one wants them and I finally have to throw them out. But sometimes I have enough components around to build a simple system. I still have an old Intel P4 2.4Mhz system that I assembled but I can't even give it away. And now that I am building my new system that required a new motherboard, processor and memory I decided to keep my current system intact; it is an AMD x2 3800+ on a DFI Lanparty Ultra D in an Antec P180 case. I am going to see if I can find a home for it with one of my friends or their family. And don't talk about fans. There was/is a time once where I worked I called the "fan" man. I still have 30-40 of all sizes from 40mm to 120mm. And my new Antec 900 case has 4 90mm case fans and a 200mm case fan along with the 120mm fan on the heatsink.

The fan that came with my Intel Q6600 G0 is a Foxconn:

D60188-001
FC716522
ZZR71-386
DC12V 0.14A
FOXCONN

When I finally opened my processor package again to install it I also looked at the base of the heatsink. That thing is flaaaaaat and super polished. I now know why many people report that they do a very good job of cooling. But the drop in amperage is amazing and wouldn't be because of the reduction in the cpu wattage.

Again, I want to use the high powered 120mm fan primarily for the sound problems that can occur with higher speed 90mm fans. I can get decent airflow at reduced speed and noise. This I can control with a fan controller. This time I bought a Sunbeam but I always bought Vantec before.

I finished lapping the Ultima-90 and found that it was not convex but cylindrical. As I lapped I got a copper line that was in the middle of the base and went side to side. The more I lapped the wider it got. I've never seen that before. In general the metal removal begins in the center in a circular area and works its way out. Only one time, on a very cheap heatsink, did I see the metal removal start at the four corners and work its way in to the center. And I finally got the heatsink installed onto the motherboard with the 120mm fan. I used the stock mounting clips and 4 tywraps. Using the plastic ties actually worked great but then I was working with the motherboard outside of the case; removing and replacing the fan won't be so easy when I go to lap the processor. But in looking at the heatsink some more I decided that it would be very easy to add 4 more clip mounting holes a little farther back than the current holes and this would allow the clips to catch the nearside of the fan. I then wouldn't need the plastic ties.

As I have said, I am using an Antec 900 case and a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R motherboard. I have my Antec 900 set up so that the upper 3 drive bay is empty except for the 120mm Tricool fan drawing air in. The air coming in is directly in line with the fan/heatsink and then the air leaving the heatsink is in a direct line to another 120mm Tricool fan exhausting air out of the back of the case. Just above the heatsink is the 200mm fan exhausting air out of the top of the case. On the side panel is another 120mm Tricool blowing in. It is just below the heatsink and hits the video card and P35 chipset heatsink. And there is a 120mm Tricool in front of the 3 SATAII drives which pulls air in and delivers it to the power supply; the power supply has its own 120mm fan. The front fans, rear/top fans, side fan and heatsink fan are all controlled by the fan controller; there are four individual controls in the Sunbeam each capable of handling 20W. I like the arrangement and hope the cooling is adequate.

Earlier in my career (I am 60 now) I primarily worked laying out printed circuit boards and designing the enclosures for them. Most of the companies I worked for were power supply manufactures that sold supplies for the larger computers of that time along with selling to medical companies and other industrial companies. In designing the enclosures I also had to choose and design (from standard extrusions) the necessary heatsinks. At that time the feeling was that the important characteristic of airflow was not the cfm but the linear speed across the fins. For any heatsink or extrusion that I wanted to buy there was always a chart of thermal resistance vs. airspeed. Anything above 600 ft/min was of no benefit so the smallest fan that provided ~600 ft/min was used; primarily because of the cost. And there was also the cost and size restriction tradeoff between fan/fanspeed and size of the heatsink. Of course, even back then there was the water and freon cooling methods but I never got into that. Now things have gone wild and are more innovative than my time.

I was about to place the motherboard into the case when I realized that I hadn't drilled holes in the motherboard mounting plate so that I could get at the P35 and ICH9 heatsink mounting pins. If the chips run too hot I will want to remove the heatsinks and apply a good thermal paste. To do that I need to get at the back of the motherboard so that I can squeeze the back of the pins to release them and the heatsinks. I had already nibbled out a rectangular opening in the plate just behind the processor backplate; just in case.

So tomorrow is the day I complete the assembly of my new system. Excited to get it together but worried it will have a problem starting up.

Later,

Eeyore

 

[nowise]

I bought one of these from Jab-Tech and tried to install it yesterday. The damn thing will not secure correctly on my Biostar motherboard and the screws will not screw down any further. It moves around and rotates on the CPU. I will be disassembling it and reassembling it again in a day or two but so far I am disappointed.
Anyone else have this problem?

And of course Thermalright's website has been down all morning :-(

 

[ty1er]

Originally posted by: nowise
I bought one of these from Jab-Tech and tried to install it yesterday. The damn thing will not secure correctly on my Biostar motherboard and the screws will not screw down any further. It moves around and rotates on the CPU. I will be disassembling it and reassembling it again in a day or two but so far I am disappointed.
Anyone else have this problem?

And of course Thermalright's website has been down all morning :-(

That doesnt sound very good, sorry to hear that. Keep us updated if you figure out what is going on with the mounting issuse.