These Northwoods are pretty slick...

[fkloster]

<< I'm not praising it's availability, I'm praising it's innovation and capability. The Northwood P4 isn't crap compared to the ClawHammer. >>



Ummm, nice logic. Believe me, when ClawHammer debuts in about a year from now, P4's will really start to 'stretch their legs'...

 

[DN]

<< What amazes me is how EMOTIONALLY attached people become to a processor or company. They become so attached, that they actually hate the competition, even though they have no vested interest in the company, beyond their irrational emotions. >>



LOL.. I know what you mean.. You'd think they were the CEO or something.. Personally, I go by 3 things:

Compatibility
Stability
Performance

Price isn't as important to me as it might be to others.. However, compatibility and stability are of upmost importance, performance being #3.. All in all, that makes my decision pretty simple..

 

[Dug]

<< I'm going to replace the 80mm in the Enermax with a L1A, and replace the 92mm one with a PC Power and Cooling 92mm Silencer fan. Should be pretty quiet after that.. >>



I did that and now the fan on the video card is the loudest thing in the case.
Although I replaced the p/s and case fans all with 80mm PCP&C silencers.
The good news is that the cpu temp hasn't changed at all! Even with slower case fans.
These NW's are sweet.

Nice memory benchmark, btw. Are you using Turbo1 or 2?

 

[Rainsford]

Yes, the P4 Northwood is great...unless you actually care about value. The point isn't whether or not it's better or faster than AMD chips, the point is how fast is it for the money. Sure the fastest Northwood may be faster than the fastest XP, but even if it is, it's price is much, much bigger. Since price apparently isn't a factor for anyone, why don't you just go buy a few SGI of Sun workstations, they'll whop the hell out of the Northwood.

I don't love AMD or hate Intel, but paying a lot more for a little more performance is just stupid unless you've got money to burn. I want a good, stable computer for a reasonable price, and until Intel becomes a little more reasonable in the pricing department, my computers are going to be AMD. I'm a college student, and I need all the money I can get, I don't have money to waste on Intel products.

 

[Dug]

<< Sure the fastest Northwood may be faster than the fastest XP, but even if it is, it's price is much, much bigger. >>


Well lets see- 2.3 to 2.6 Ghz cpu = $145
Asus P4B266-c = $115 or the Sis chipset for about $85

That's $260 or less for over 2Ghz of power. And no need to buy a heatsink. Seems like the price isn't much, much bigger.

 

[LXi]

Look what you've started Insane...

I'm shocked by the comments in this thread. Intel has already won the value crown? Just with the 1.6GHz Northwood?

 

[nortexoid]

rainsford, did u just miss the entire point of this thread?...

the 1.6A northwood is just as cheap as the 1.7/1.8ghz athlon xp's....couple it with an inexpensive overclockable SIS 645 (or otherwise) board, run it at over 2.1ghz, and u're paying no more than a slower/louder athlon xp system.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I'm probably the only NW owner who doesn't OC!

My system is solid-as-a-rock. And that's most important to me. Intel has always done me very well.

 

[Nessism]

Intel usually launches their processors with very conservative clock settings. Remember the P3 coppermine launch where those 550e's were running 733mhz + with ease. Now it's Northwoods turn Enjoy

 

[scandia]

Insane, that's FAST. Lucky you. Was wondering, is that a Costa Rica or Malay chip? Happen to know how much can you overclock with default voltage?

 

[DN]

<< Yes, the P4 Northwood is great...unless you actually care about value. The point isn't whether or not it's better or faster than AMD chips, the point is how fast is it for the money. Sure the fastest Northwood may be faster than the fastest XP, but even if it is, it's price is much, much bigger. Since price apparently isn't a factor for anyone, why don't you just go buy a few SGI of Sun workstations, they'll whop the hell out of the Northwood.

I don't love AMD or hate Intel, but paying a lot more for a little more performance is just stupid unless you've got money to burn. I want a good, stable computer for a reasonable price, and until Intel becomes a little more reasonable in the pricing department, my computers are going to be AMD. I'm a college student, and I need all the money I can get, I don't have money to waste on Intel products. >>



Simply put, price is more important to you than stability or compatibility, even if this tremendous price difference you mention is in actuality not tremendous at all..

 

[mchammer187]

I am upgradin my
epox 8kha+
1700 athlon xp
768 MB crucial PC2100 DDR

to:

1.8A Pentium 4 "Northwood"
TH7 II RAID
512 CORSAIR PC800

other components staying the same:

Radeon 8500 Retail
intel 10/100 pro
SB audigy
ANTEC 412 PPx 400 W
Lite-On 24x10x40x
Pioneer 16x (not slot loader )
Hauppauge WinTV Radio
MS intellimouse optical

with the surge in DDR prices i only had to pay about $170 for the upgrade which i'd say is not bad at all

hoping to hit 2.6 Ghz or higher with an AVC Sunflower

 

[jonmcc33]

My recommendations for people on this forum differ quite a bit from the average Joe who wouldn't know what a FSB was if it hit him in the face. Here at Anand, the Intel part is the best bang/buck.

Here at Anand? What, do you have your own internet world or something? When I build systems for people I do it in real life, ie the real world. Sure, I'll tell them about overclocking and all, but with each person I've told (even though I've told them the success I've had overclocking my own system) they normally nod their head and then want nothing to do with it on their own machine.

Sure, the P4 1.6A is a real overclocking beast and any real overclocker would be nuts not to get it. But out of all the people that own computers what percentage of them do you think are overclockers? Do you think you can overclock a Dell?

You will also get the garunteed stability of an intel chipset. I'm running a 540mhz overclock and have not seen one crash yet.

I've had an Asus A7V133 with the VIA KT133A chipset for over a year and it has never crashed on me. I'm running a 400MHz overclock on my 1GHz AMD Thunderbird AXIA and never seen one crash yet.

Why is he going to have to upgrade again in 6 months? Now your saying here that nothing can bring your 1.4 tbird to its knees. So a northwood 1.6A should be just fine. Do you know how much a clawhammer and mobo will cost? Do you know when microsoft will release their 64 bit version of XP. Clawhammer is sopposed to be release Q4 ,most people think it will be around christmas, thats not 6 months, more like 9-10. Your saying not to upgrade now because there is something better on the horizon. With that logic why spend money on any technology. Might as well not buy a clawhammer around christmas because 6 months from then there will be a better and improved clawhammer. AMD definatly has a good product on their hands if its released on time, but we still dont know how much it will cost or how good it will perform.

He isn't going to have to upgrade then, but he will when Intel goes away from the 478 socket like they did with the socket 423 P4. If someone had a 1.5GHz Socket 423 P4 then they'd have to upgrade their motherboard just to get new P4 Northwood. I'm not saying not to spend money on technology, but that doesn't mean I'd get a GeForce4 Ti to replace my GeForce3 Ti. I'll wait till the next generation DX9 cards come out till I upgrade my video card again. I view it the same with processors. I look at whether it is worth it to upgrade.

 

[Viper GTS]

Gotta give Intel the nod. It's hard to recommend anything AMD right now except for those building on a budget below the 1.6Ghz asking price. Northwood is the way to go for now...

*AHEM*

For an out of pocket cost of $158 I upgraded my dual TBird 1200's to Dual XP 1800+'s ($308 for the XPs, sold the TBIrds for $150 + shipping). Where else can you get that much raw power?

If P4's were available in a dual platform, I'd jump on them. But right now XP's are my CPU of choice. Northwood is great, but I love my dualie AMD.

Viper GTS

 

[CocaCola5]

<< Gotta give Intel the nod. It's hard to recommend anything AMD right now except for those building on a budget below the 1.6Ghz asking price. Northwood is the way to go for now...

*AHEM*

For an out of pocket cost of $158 I upgraded my dual TBird 1200's to Dual XP 1800+'s ($308 for the XPs, sold the TBIrds for $150 + shipping). Where else can you get that much raw power?

If P4's were available in a dual platform, I'd jump on them. But right now XP's are my CPU of choice. Northwood is great, but I love my dualie AMD.

Viper GTS >>





You're right, the duals MP/MPX is the only AMD solution that tops these NW p4s right now. Hell a dual morgan duron + Tyan tiger is probably more appealing than the NWs. Maybe not for gaming but as a workstation pc.

 

[Insane3D]

"I did that and now the fan on the video card is the loudest thing in the case.
Although I replaced the p/s and case fans all with 80mm PCP&C silencers.
The good news is that the cpu temp hasn't changed at all! Even with slower case fans.
These NW's are sweet."

Yeah, I just ordered a Radeon 8500 and I might try to switch out it's tiny HSF for a large 55mm Alpha HS and see how it runs fanless.


"Nice memory benchmark, btw. Are you using Turbo1 or 2?"

Yes, I'm using Turbo 1.

 

[Insane3D]

"Insane, that's FAST. Lucky you. Was wondering, is that a Costa Rica or Malay chip? Happen to know how much can you overclock with default voltage?"

Hmmm..not sure. I didn't check the numbers on the CPU before I threw it in. I have a bunch of numbers on the outside of the box it came in, but I'm not sure which one will tell you what you want or if any of them will. The box has a sticker with a "Prod Code", a "MM #", a "FPO/Batch#, a "Version #" and a pack date of 1/12/02. Let me know if you want any of these numbers...


As far as default voltage, it did a 133mhz FSB with default voltage.

 

[KDOG]

DANG!!! I just bought an Athlon 1800+XP and an Epox 8KHA+. Oh well Im stuck with it now. Not that its' a bad thing...especially after I figure out how to overclock it

But if my chip or mobo decided to blow chunks, I'd be sportin a 'Woodie in a hurry! :0

 

[x86]

<< "F that, I'm praising the AMD ClawHammer and their AMD-8000 chipset. "

Indeed the hammer and the AMD 8000 chipset are extremely impressive, and when they come I will probably try my hand at one, but the first hammer's will not even be around until the end of this year at the earliest..more likely early next year. The NW is available now and a almost 1ghz o/c with no extra cooling is impressive. >>



One question: How are they "impressive" when you don't have any clock speeds, benchmarks, or ES at hand?

-x86

 

[Duvie]

I want to say I love amd systems, but....

The northwood is actually the first system I would even think about selling to ppl as a machine I can overclock...my buddy was interested in an athlon for ocing but I ws always reluctant....

1) he would have had to buy a bigger PSU then he had...
2) He would have needed an expensive aftermarket fan that would have been quite the noise maker compared to his athlon 600 classic...
3)He would have to be concerned about heat in the room
4) I just never got any athlon system oc'd ever to be fully stable, unless it was such a samll oc it may not have been worth it....

I actually feel like I can use a retail heatsink hit 133fsb on a 1.6 with modest voltage increase and nver have to be concerned about it....It will be stable....No high temps to worry about...Can't burn it up as it will throttle down...My system is half the noise it was and I could probably reduce the case fans by one more and still be very safe...I had to have 3 fans before to keep my 1.4@1.5ghz tbird in the low to mid 50's for load...NOw I get 44c load with my 1.8@2.4GHZ....


To the guy still mentioning price....WAKE UP...There is no price advantage period for amd right now....1.6chip for 150 that will hit 2.2-2.6ghz and out do any athlon 2200+ in majority of test...tons of 100 ans sub 100 dollar sis645 mobos that offer 333ddr support....Cmon who are you foolin!!!

 

[LXi]

I thought this wouldn't be as bad... but it really looks like it is. For once Intel comes out with a cheap and overclockable chip, then all of the sudden these old Intel myths regain their dominance in people's minds,

1. Intel chipsets guarrantee stability
2. Intel solutions have better compatbility
3. AMD cooling solutions are pricey and noisy
4. AthlonXP cannot be overclocked with stability
5. P4 is now a better value than AthlonXP

This is too good to pass up. A few months ago this would've been a beatdown by the Athlon supporters. Now I see one or two obscure advocates for AMD. Is this 1.6GHz Northwood really that good? Good enough to win everyone's hearts back? Good enough to totally overthrow AMD as a reasonable choice? This is getting way out of hand, how did this happen? I don't even think Insane3D, who is the very owner of this suddenly beloved Intel setup, agrees with those terms. I personally do not believe in statements 1 and 2, these are simply myths to me, and through my experience it's totally possible to have an AMD system with the same level of stability and compatiblity as Intel. Statements 3 and 4 just didn't sound right at all. You have to concern about the heat in the room when you go AMD, what is this some kind of joke? I have never had to concern about room temperature in relation to the heat dissipation, as long as you have a good heatsink with a decently powerful fan and you installed it correctly with thermal compound applied, there is no way how it couldn't stand the heat. XP can't be overclocked with stability?? I can't believe someone said that, it's not even funny anymore. So is the 1.6A really such a bargain it totally blows away any AMD offering in the same price range? At default speed, nothing will even come close to AMD, the 1.6A can dream about beating the 1800+ in any benchmark, a lot of people, and yes Im talking about even the people on this forum, are going to use their machines non-overclocked, and AMD makes a lot of sense for these people. A quick look at Overclockers.com's database, the typical overclock out for 1.6A falls in the range of 2.1-2.4GHz, if you're thinking guranteed 2.6GHz, then you're probably being a little bit optimistic. A 1800+ will do a decent 1.7-1.75GHz(~2100+) with a little voltage increase and no multiplier change or any insane cooling, and if a 2000+ can keep a 2.2GHz Northwood at bay, then an overclocked 1800+ shouldn't be too far off an overclocked 1.6A. To say that Intel is completely making AMD worthless is plain wrong, and you don't have to be a philosopher to see that. It's freaking amazing what this one CPU can do to people's heads, I think the ones who really need to wake up is you, not we.

 

[MadRat]

<<1. Intel chipsets guarrantee stability
2. Intel solutions have better compatbility
3. AMD cooling solutions are pricey and noisy
4. AthlonXP cannot be overclocked with stability
5. P4 is now a better value than AthlonXP>>

1. How so? An overclocked system is never a garauntee of stability.
2. What is not compatible with AMD Athlon XP? Okay, I know... socket 370. You certainly have a point if thats what you meant.
3. Last time I checked they all cost the same.
4. Would you like soup to eat with that crow?
5. Not hardly. I can go buy an XP1500+ and run it around 1.7GHz. Those 1.6a's are alone within $30 of the cost of an XP1500+ and motherboard.

Lets see, a 1500+ is at 1.3GHz - a 30% overclock if I reach 1.73GHz. Thats 400MHz for $20 less. Your 1.6a at $130 (I'm being generous on the price) would be lucky to reach 2.2GHz with stability. You gain 600MHz, or 38%, which is respectable. But when we pit the 1.7GHz XP versus your 2.2GHz P4 its a shame you paid $20 more for less performance.

At stock speeds I'd rather have the 1500+ than the 1.6GHz P4. I don't have any SSE2-based applications. But I do have alot that do use integer and real FPU power.

Just because you insulted AMD owners with those ludicrous statements I'm going to insult you back and say "you are an idiot". For an Elite member, a rank that formerly implied honor, you sure make a good poster child for run of the mill "Intel Zealot".

Edit: Oops, I just noticed LXi was discarding these myths, not declaring them as fact. My apologies to LXi for calling him an idiot. Honor is once again restored to the "Elite Member" rank. Keep up the good work... Just make your point a little more obvious next time.

 

[Insane3D]

I was really hoping this wouldn't turn into a AMD vs. Intel thread, but apparently it has. The whole point of this thread was just to show a succesful overclock of one of these new Northwood CPU's. I have been a overclocker for a while, and I always like to try the new stuff. If you look at my rigs, I have four all AMD systems, and I love them. I didn't get a P4 until now because there was no real reason for me personally to try one. I had four overclocked AMD systems already, and at least two of them could more or less keep up with Intel's fastest chip, and that chip was VERY expensive.

Now, all of my AMD systems are overclocked and stable. I've used Sis, Via, and Ali chipsets and had stable systems from all of them. Now I have a Intel/Intel setup and it is no more or less stable than any of my other systems. I enjoy experimenting with the latest computer hardware, and finding the limits of it. Up until now, the P4 was not really worth the price to me as an overclocker. These Northwoods came out and were reasonably priced, overclocked like a mofo, and could now be paired with DDR memory that I already had plenty of. Seeing all of the NW o/c success stories, I was interested, so I gave one a try.

I enjoy building, working with, and tweaking computer hardware, and I could really care less which company makes the product, as long as it performs well and is a good product. I actually had nothing but trouble when I first setup this northy. I originally bought a Gigabyte Sis645 board, the GA-8SRX, and after two days of trying to get the thing to work right, I realized I got a lemon board. I didn't come out complaing about how the Sis chipset sucks, or that Gigabyte makes crap boards, I just simply RMA'ed it and tried another board. People get so worked up about this stuff and it's just computer hardware. Everyone has their own preferences, experiences, and opinions on computer hardware, and they are entitled to them. This forum is for discussing computer hardware. Differences in opinion can be argued with civility and facts instead of flaming and name calling you know.

 

[MisterNi]

Wow, I enter this thread to see how well Insane got his 1.6a to o/c (which seems quite a bit higher than most people have been hitting) but instead another AMD v Intel war erupts...

I guess this is the perfect time to pimp my brand-spanking new sig.

 

[BFG10K]

I'm probably the only NW owner who doesn't OC!

My overclock isn't as high as everyone elses but I'm completely happy with it so I have no desire to go any higher.

My system rock solid, cool and quiet @ 2.2 GHz and I don't have to touch the vcore either.