They can stop saying prayers at auto races

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

CountZero

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2001
1,796
36
86
What kind of plan depends wholly on someone else to fulfill it?

This is the essence of the paradox of that kind of Christian belief. If god's will and plan is so important then the driver that died had to be on that path to die on that day. He had no free will. Basically if god has a plan at that level of detail then free will goes out the window and everything is pre-ordained. That means when people sin and go to hell that was the plan, seems odd. This leads to that paradox of good things come from god and bad things come from man (see the WBC reply about Steve Jobs).

The second kind of belief talked about was the free will based one that does make sense. We are set down and can do whatever, there is no plan. When good or bad things happen they just happen. Maybe god intervenes on people's behalf and maybe not but there is no plan on the level of every single person (might be on a global/universe scale). I think this is closer to the typical Christian belief. This would be the kind of prayer that would take place at a race, essentially asking god to tip the odds and help ensure nothing bad happens. The problem only arises when people say this death was god's plan, god's will might be a better term, god didn't intervene rather than god decided this was meant to happen.
 

WaTaGuMp

Lifer
May 10, 2001
21,207
2,506
126
Hey, wasn't the end of the world 2 days ago, again? Religion is involved, right?
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Try to understand religion is MAN made, so what one person thinks is true another may not.

When the fuck did we start talking about truth? How the fuck would I know the ultimate truth of why or how we got here, or the existence of any kind of God or supreme being? I'm not a Christian, nor do I buy into their arguments. If we had been born in Roman times we would be arguing the existence of Apollo or some other god.

I'm just taking about you misrepresenting what most modern Christian churches teach in your OP. You implied that God must not exist because a prayer wasn't answered. I'm just saying that God doesn't work that way, according to modern Christian beliefs.
 

WaTaGuMp

Lifer
May 10, 2001
21,207
2,506
126
When the fuck did we start talking about truth? How the fuck would I know the ultimate truth of why or how we got here, or the existence of any kind of God or supreme being? I'm not a Christian, nor do I buy into their arguments. If we had been born in Roman times we would be arguing the existence of Apollo or some other god.

I'm just taking about you misrepresenting what most modern Christian churches teach in your OP. You implied that God must not exist because a prayer wasn't answered. I'm just saying that God doesn't work that way, according to modern Christian beliefs.

So you would be happier if instead of the worth truth I used belief or believe?
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,782
845
126
You have to remember that their fan base is largely republican + rednecks so they go with what they want.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
If God is going to do what he wants, why pray?

I find it funny when people say you must understand the basic concepts of the religion before bashing it. Let me let you in on a little secret, understanding the religion only makes things worse for you. You QUICKLY find out that ALL religions will fall down like a house of cards under scrutiny. In the end after back and worth discussions, the ONLY thing Christians (or any religion for that matter) will be left with is "you just got to believe." That's it! No evidence to support their argument. Logic gets thrown out the window, and all you have left with is "you just got to believe." And if that is the only thing you have to backup your claims, you have no claim.

Yeah, even long ago, back when I did pray I didn't understand the purpose of it. It's obvious to any idiot that God doesn't grant prayers, otherwise we would have several million lottery winners ever week and Gail Hoppkey would have been all over me in the 8th grade. I figured that if you did pray the most you should ask God for is the wisdom to understand what he has planned for you and the strength to endure whatever happens in this world. Asking for protection or material boons is contrary to everything Jesus taught.

And, yes, I think you should understand any argument before you call it false. But I will agree that most religious arguments already have two strikes against them since they often resort to blind faith in some sort of magic like you said.

Another Christian concepts I think many atheists in this thread are missing is that God is not beholding to human laws. People keep asking if it is okay for God to kill someone. Of course it is, we belong to him. The Bible tells us not to judge each other, so judging God is basically unthinkable. God isn't our peer, he's our creator and master. Be flattered that he gave us free will to love or reject him, but don't think for a moment that there won't be a price for rejecting him.

At least that's how I understand the Christian argument, after some study.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
So you would be happier if instead of the worth truth I used belief or believe?

Not at all. What you or I believe has nothing to do with the truth. Some beliefs are more logical and rational than others, and may be closer to the truth, but the two are completely different.

If you have some way to determine the TRUTH of the existence of God then please lay it on me. But short of Jesus' second coming, I'm comfortable admitting for now that I just don't know for sure, with a strong leaning towards God not existing.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Yeah, even long ago, back when I did pray I didn't understand the purpose of it. It's obvious to any idiot that God doesn't grant prayers, otherwise we would have several million lottery winners ever week and Gail Hoppkey would have been all over me in the 8th grade. I figured that if you did pray the most you should ask God for is the wisdom to understand what he has planned for you and the strength to endure whatever happens in this world. Asking for protection or material boons is contrary to everything Jesus taught.

And, yes, I think you should understand any argument before you call it false. But I will agree that most religious arguments already have two strikes against them since they often resort to blind faith in some sort of magic like you said.

Another Christian concepts I think many atheists in this thread are missing is that God is not beholding to human laws. People keep asking if it is okay for God to kill someone. Of course it is, we belong to him. The Bible tells us not to judge each other, so judging God is basically unthinkable. God isn't our peer, he's our creator and master. Be flattered that he gave us free will to love or reject him, but don't think for a moment that there won't be a price for rejecting him.

At least that's how I understand the Christian argument, after some study.

I've studied the Bible for several years now. I'm not an angry kid that didn't get what he wanted in life and just said, "fuck it." I'm actually quite a happy person and life in general has been pretty good to me. Ironically, I became an atheist while searching for answers to my own faith. However, I found out when you dig deep enough into religion you'll soon find out it is a pile of shit. It's designed to keep people in line. And quite honestly, some people need it.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
I've studied the Bible for several years now. I'm not an angry kid that didn't get what he wanted in life and just said, "fuck it." I'm actually quite a happy person and life in general has been pretty good to me. Ironically, I became an atheist while searching for answers to my own faith. However, I found out when you dig deep enough into religion you'll soon find out it is a pile of shit. It's designed to keep people in line. And quite honestly, some people need it.

There is no way, you studied the bible for several years.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
I've studied the Bible for several years now. I'm not an angry kid that didn't get what he wanted in life and just said, "fuck it." I'm actually quite a happy person and life in general has been pretty good to me. Ironically, I became an atheist while searching for answers to my own faith. However, I found out when you dig deep enough into religion you'll soon find out it is a pile of shit. It's designed to keep people in line. And quite honestly, some people need it.

I think a lot of people would benefit from believing that there is a higher power that will hold you accountable for the good and evil they do in this world. And, true or not, I think there are some good lessons and advice to be gleaned from the Bible, if you can avoid the wacky shit also contained therein.

The problem is that religion is a force that can be used for good or evil, and mankind isn't known for always choosing wisely.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Angry atheists talk about how dumb believing in a "sky daddy" is, but many have no ability to understand even the most basic tenants of Christianity when they make their arguments.

Actually, I believe that a few studies have shown that the average atheist knows more about Christianity and the Bible than does the average Christian.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
There is no way, you studied the bible for several years.

Yeah you're right, "studying" is the wrong word. It would be like me saying I "studied" Dr Seuss' "Green Eggs and Ham." How about reading? Does that sound more accurate?
 

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
Sure I don't...sure I don't.


And fyi, that woman wasn't very wise at all. Sorry.



You are a legend in your own feeble mind. You know nothing about what you rant about.

You are a coward hiding behind a monitor and a keyboard ranting about your own hatred of other people's beliefs that your mind cannot even fathom.

The woman you talk about was the most wise I have ever known. If you had met her you probably would have missed it as you are so utterly blinded by your hatred of things you don't understand ... but pretend to know about.

You are the epitome of a troll.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
You are a legend in your own feeble mind. You know nothing about what you rant about.

You are a coward hiding behind a monitor and a keyboard ranting about your own hatred of other people's beliefs that your mind cannot even fathom.

The woman you talk about was the most wise I have ever known. If you had met her you probably would have missed it as you are so utterly blinded by your hatred of things you don't understand ... but pretend to know about.

You are the epitome of a troll.

I understand, it's hard for you to think outside the box. Most religious people suffer from this problem.

And fyi, I've had these "discussions" with Christians on the streets. They also had the look in their eye like they wanted to hit me, but for some reason didn't follow through. Wish he did though.
 

jhansman

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2004
2,768
29
91
So, if I understand it right, the drivers are praying they don't crash, and the spectators are praying they do. Oh, and all you religious folk out there: God doesn't give a shit if you pray. I have this on good authority...
 

twinrider1

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2003
4,096
64
91
WaTaGuMp, so what what are you saying? That you believe there is no god, or that you believe in God, but that He isn't concerned with racing and his followers lives?
 

Nebbers

Senior member
Jan 18, 2011
649
0
0
Every now and then I just about start to get involved with an 'existence of god' debate and then I remember that the outcome IS ALWAYS THE SAME.

/pass
 

Geocentricity

Senior member
Sep 13, 2006
791
0
0
I understand, it's hard for you to think outside the box. Most religious people suffer from this problem.

And fyi, I've had these "discussions" with Christians on the streets. They also had the look in their eye like they wanted to hit me, but for some reason didn't follow through. Wish he did though.

Doubt it. But nice story bra
 

twinrider1

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2003
4,096
64
91

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
0
76
Hitler didn't create anyone. Hitler had no right to take any of the lives he did. And you can't compare God to any human who ever or ever will exist. God, by definition, is a supreme being who loves and cares for the humanity he created. He sent his only son to die for us so that, even though we are sinful beings, we would be saved and could go to heaven. He has every right to expect us to serve, obey and love him. It's why we were created in the first place, according to Christian beliefs.

Again, try to understand at least the basic concepts of the religion you are bashing.



I think I covered that in my first post. People pray for all kinds of selfish things, but that doesn't mean God grants those things. His will is supreme, not ours. What we want or ask for just isn't germane in the end.
I am going to be as honest as I can, and I am sorry if this offends you, but I think it needs to be said about this.

I don't think you realize just how absolutely, completely dumb this sounds.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |