Things that should be taught in schools - mandatory!

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
23
81
At my school my friends and I play a card game called Mao, where you have to learn the rules from observation. So many people, that have straight A's in all AP classes, totally suck at this game and never get past the first few rules. Usually they say the game sucks and they quit.

This game is proof that schools are not really teaching kids how to learn, and it is very sad.

Or having read the wiki article it actually just happens to be a boring sounding game.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Or having read the wiki article it actually just happens to be a boring sounding game.
it sounds like uno with the added frustration of being surrounded by high levels of smug as you attempt to figure out wtf is going on.

won't doesn't necessarily imply can't. I'm pretty good at learning things on my own, but when I'm looking to play an entertaining game, I'd sooner walk away than deal with that stupidity.
 

jeanclaude

Member
Jan 28, 2010
103
0
0
I'm sure there are worse languages, and yes, definitely some which are more logical. And English doesn't do well with the Information Age.

Google for "bank." Ok, are you looking for a place to keep money, sloping terrain by a river, or an action a plane can perform? Geez, they even consist of two nouns and a verb.
"Calculus" - it's either a field of mathematics or a deposit on your teeth.
--------------

Ok. Two things. First off, the notion that one language is more logical or complex than another is simply false. All languages are equally complex or equally simple – whatever that means. I challenge you to present a metric that would allow such a comparison. It doesn’t exist and you wouldn't find any creditable linguist that would support such a statement. All languages serve the communicative needs of the community in which it is spoken. The notion of one language being more logical or superior than another is a throw back to 19th century when Europeans dominated the field of linguistics research and everything was contrasted, categorized and judged relative to Germanic and Romance languages. Any language that was ‘discovered’ that didn’t fit that paradigm was often classified as primitive or inferior. This misnomer remains in our discourse today. Unfortunately.

English has fewer shortcomings? What on earth does that mean?

It is the complexity and creativity of all human languages, both in terms of their underlying grammar and their use that makes it very very hard to render into computer code. The myriads of ways that human languages often chose to categorize items and events and situations can often seem illogical (and thus hard to replicate in the NLP interfaces.). As for moving towards a planet wide language some might argue that the spread of English has been filling that role as a global lingua franca. Certainly, in the beginning, in terms of the internet but who knows what the future will hold

Oh, and the complexity and difficulty to learn post – again another often heard falsehood. All children learn, regardless of the language, and barring cognitive impairments etc, their first languages in a relatively predictable order and time frame. That is a generalization of course but in most cases the structure of ‘language’ for us is in place by about age 6. By 6 we have the framework in place. All the rest is adding on and refining.

If you are talking about 2nd language acquisition – so many variables can affect the process. That is a whole nether thread.

Secondly, speaking of use and interpretation. Al languages make use of polysemous extensions with lexical items. Bank (financial institution, river feature, cloud formation, plane’s action etc) is by far the norm and not the exception. Human languages often use context, position in a sentence, inflection, grammatical particles etc to help point to the meaning – if you will. No language has a full 1 to 1 meaning to form correlation for all its words. It would be unwieldy and impossible to use. Often (not always) the older a word is in a language the more senses it tends to acquire. Sometimes old senses die out in favor of new ones and we have no idea of the original meaning. Lexicons in languages are constantly adding new words and tossing out disused forms. Take the old posting / rant on USE versus UTILIZE. Both are French in origin. Use came into English around 1300 and has 26 related senses. Utilize is also French but entered around 1700. It has 3. (all according to the OED). Both overlap in many areas but each still exists. My first thought was that the answer may be in register - utilize (polysyllabic) is perhaps more formal while use (mono and way older and therefore more frequent ) is favored in more regular discourse contexts. Whatever – the point is polysemy is normal, essential and really shows the creative side of human language and categorization. And it is a nightmare to replicate with computer code. Just try Google translate sometime. Freakin awful.

Inflate to sidewall and peace out.
 

hiromizu

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
3,405
1
0
Phonetics for one. Way too many people can't pronounce foreign names because they don't read it as it's spelled.
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
23
81
Phonetics for one. Way too many people can't pronounce foreign names because they don't read it as it's spelled.

Umm yeah.. doesn't quite work like that. To pronounce something right you actually have to know the language it's from. You cant really expect a person that doesn't know say Mandarin to be able to pronounce anything in Mandarin correctly based on a sign or a map or well anything without being taught or using something to help them.
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
How to learn.

/thread.

Seriously people aren't taught HOW to learn. They are taught thousands of interconnected facts and asked to regurgitate them on command. You have to learn on your own HOW to learn. When these kids reach university and come to the realization that they have to learn themselves some of them just say fuck it I can't do that.

I'm not just being cute. There are many techniques and underlying principals on HOW to learn things. Things like abstraction, pattern recognition, mnemonics, applying general rules to new sets of data not seen before. etc etc...

This.

Also, Basic Logic / Critical Thinking.
 
Last edited:

Cheeseplug

Senior member
Dec 16, 2008
430
0
0
For everyone saying 'logic,' what do you mean by logic? Formal logic? Have you ever taken formal logic? What do you expect it to do that it should be mandatory for school children?
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,671
1
0
law and politics should be covered by social studies... at least they were back when I was in school.

teaching something like mechanics would require a huge $$ investment from an already broke government without much benefit in return.


I get through life pretty well without ever having taken calc or physics.

AFAIK, high schools generally require 3 years of math... you're suggesting 6?

personally, I've always felt like English programs should have significantly less emphasis on literature and focus on writing instead (and not just basics like grammar, but rhetoric, style, etc)
I know a sickeningly large number of people who cannot write a paragraph correctly. Some people can barely read - they struggle on common words if they're more than 5 letters long, and no one knows how to use a semicolon anymore.

I suck at math, but I know that having a good understanding of algebra and a basic understanding of calculus is extremely helpful in seeing the world as it is rather than through a foggy lens. A lot of people learn basic facts that they don't really understand the reason for.

On a side note, I think a lot of the reason that people see the world in a skewed way or cling to traditional beliefs (ignorant religion, "traditional values") are because they think the world is too complicated to understand. If people would just think a little, they can really do and understand amazing things. People also suck at analyzing the big picture. For example, when I tell people that I study Chinese, they say it would be impossible for them to learn. It's really not that hard if you put some work into understanding the underlying mechanics of the language.
 
Last edited:
Dec 10, 2005
24,376
7,266
136
who balances a checkbook anymore?

heck, who USES a checkbook?

I pay my rent and electric bills by check. It costs more to them electronically.

Plus, the register in my checkbook allows me to keep track of all the money in my checking account.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
I pay my rent and electric bills by check. It costs more to them electronically.

Plus, the register in my checkbook allows me to keep track of all the money in my checking account.
online banking?

I write my monthly check as well, but I've never "kept" a checkbook. I just don't see the point with online banking. when it's time to pay bills, I bring up my bank account on one firefox tab, my visa bill on another, and my amex on the third.

checking account - rent - amex - visa - anticipated spending money I'll need for the next 2 weeks - amount of slush I like to keep in checking (500-750) = what I drop into savings
 

l0cke

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2005
3,790
0
0
Or having read the wiki article it actually just happens to be a boring sounding game.

The wiki article is just a general idea of the game, all versions of it are very different.

Only the Mao (host person) really knows all the rules, because everytime it is played new rules can be added and old rules can be dropped. No one will be there for all the games, so it is very entertaining.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,376
7,266
136
online banking?

I write my monthly check as well, but I've never "kept" a checkbook. I just don't see the point with online banking. when it's time to pay bills, I bring up my bank account on one firefox tab, my visa bill on another, and my amex on the third.

checking account - rent - amex - visa - anticipated spending money I'll need for the next 2 weeks - amount of slush I like to keep in checking (500-750) = what I drop into savings

Transaction aren't recorded instantaneously with online stuff. If you're waiting for a withdrawal from your checking account from an outside source, it could take a day or two before it hits your account. Checks - you don't see those until they post. Keeping your own record of your individual transactions tells you how much you really have in your account instead of what the bank thinks you have at that point. Plus, it allows you to reconcile your checking account at the end of the month to make sure the bank didn't fuck something up.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Venus is the size of earth, how can you possibly disagree that green house gasses are the reason why it is inhospitable. Jupiter is a gas giant with a lot of mass, if Jupiter was like mercury, all rock, I doubt it'd be very hot at all. I do not know the temperature of Jupiter on the surface (if there is one) and neither does anybody else, we can only speculate. But you're missing the point, these planets are hot because of green house gasses and the fact that you're disputing that CO2 and other gasses don't cause the atmosphere to retain heat is completely idiotic.

Sure, Venus has plenty of greenhouse gases, to the point where the atmosphere is around 90x as dense as the earth's and the majority is CO2. Guess what? It's also noticeably closer to the sun than the earth, to the point where it gets about 2x as much sun than the earth. The planet is ridiculously hot because of its incredibly thick atmosphere and closeness to the sun. Greenhouse gases may play a role but there is no possible way it would be anything that could be considered 'hospitable' even if the atmosphere was mostly oxygen and nitrogen like ours. It would still have ridiculously dense atmosphere and incredibly hot surface temperatures.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
Sure, Venus has plenty of greenhouse gases, to the point where the atmosphere is around 90x as dense as the earth's and the majority is CO2. Guess what? It's also noticeably closer to the sun than the earth, to the point where it gets about 2x as much sun than the earth. The planet is ridiculously hot because of its incredibly thick atmosphere and closeness to the sun. Greenhouse gases may play a role but there is no possible way it would be anything that could be considered 'hospitable' even if the atmosphere was mostly oxygen and nitrogen like ours. It would still have ridiculously dense atmosphere and incredibly hot surface temperatures.

Venus's temperatures can be almost completely attributed to its atmosphere. It gets 1/4 the amount of energy from the sun that Mercury does, yet Venus has higher peak and average temperatures. If it weren't for the carbon dioxide, Venus would have temperatures about the same as Earth.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Venus's temperatures can be almost completely attributed to its atmosphere. It gets 1/4 the amount of energy from the sun that Mercury does, yet Venus has higher peak and average temperatures. If it weren't for the carbon dioxide, Venus would have temperatures about the same as Earth.

Any atmosphere that thick regardless of composition would have a nasty greenhouse effect. The CO2 just makes it worse than it already would have been otherwise.
 

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
23
81
Venus's temperatures can be almost completely attributed to its atmosphere. It gets 1/4 the amount of energy from the sun that Mercury does, yet Venus has higher peak and average temperatures. If it weren't for the carbon dioxide, Venus would have temperatures about the same as Earth.

No, if it wasn't for its thick atmosphere it still would have temperatures much higher then Earth. Mercury doesn't it get as hot because it simply doesn't have an atmosphere, meaning that one side will get hot while the other is among the coldest places in our solar system.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Any atmosphere that thick regardless of composition would have a nasty greenhouse effect. The CO2 just makes it worse than it already would have been otherwise.
When doing infrared spectroscopy in a chem lab, the only things we ever care about are water and CO2 screwing up the readings. Nitrogen (80% of our atmosphere) does not absorb infrared light, and neither does oxygen (the other 20% of our atmosphere).

This is part of the reason scientists care so much about CO2 and how it can potentially cause large global temperature changes. If N2 and O2 already absorbed all of the infrared light, adding CO2 to the atmosphere wouldn't do anything and nobody would care. Most of our infrared absorption comes from water, not nitrogen or oxygen. This is the main reason global warming effects are not seen in places where water is in the air, but huge temperature changes are seen in places that do not have any gaseous water such as deserts and the poles.

Here is a picture of predicted global warming trends over 100 years:


You'll notice the largest changes are expected in desert regions - north pole, south pole, Africa, and the Australian outback.

Venus would likely be colder than earth if it had a thick atmosphere made entire of nitrogen and oxygen with no CO2 or water.
 

DanDaManJC

Senior member
Oct 31, 2004
776
0
76
Definitely need to teach people how to learn. I never got that through public high school and it's a shame that many people will never get it that skill either.

Nice corollary to that would be to instill healthy dose of skepticism, at the very least such that you realize we're all pretty ignorant of the world.
 
Nov 20, 2009
10,051
2,577
136
What are some things that the education system has miserably failed us in?

The following are some things I think should be taught in schools (up and through High School) as mandatory:

- Civics
- Basic Law
- Basic Politics
- Basic Mechanics (Car, bike maintenance)

What else am I missing? Everyone should know the democratic process and how to do what AAA does without calling AAA (unless you need a tow).
How about personal responsibility? Economics of plastic? How not to make the mistakes of their parents?
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,794
10,321
136
When doing infrared spectroscopy in a chem lab, the only things we ever care about are water and CO2 screwing up the readings. Nitrogen (80% of our atmosphere) does not absorb infrared light, and neither does oxygen (the other 20% of our atmosphere).

This is part of the reason scientists care so much about CO2 and how it can potentially cause large global temperature changes. If N2 and O2 already absorbed all of the infrared light, adding CO2 to the atmosphere wouldn't do anything and nobody would care. Most of our infrared absorption comes from water, not nitrogen or oxygen. This is the main reason global warming effects are not seen in places where water is in the air, but huge temperature changes are seen in places that do not have any gaseous water such as deserts and the poles.

Here is a picture of predicted global warming trends over 100 years:


You'll notice the largest changes are expected in desert regions - north pole, south pole, Africa, and the Australian outback.

Venus would likely be colder than earth if it had a thick atmosphere made entire of nitrogen and oxygen with no CO2 or water.

if i'm not mistaken, water is far worse than CO2 when concerning IR absorption, since the bond is so much more polar and has more degrees of freedom.

hence why when people do FTIR, they *REALLY* care about humidity more than CO2.
 

fleabag

Banned
Oct 1, 2007
2,450
1
0
water may be worse but it technically shouldn't be relevant if "nothing is melting" and therefore there is no such thing as global warming. I mean after all, if there is the same amount of water in the air as there has always been for the time we've been around, then I don't see why we should concern ourselves with that little fact.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,794
10,321
136
water may be worse but it technically shouldn't be relevant if "nothing is melting" and therefore there is no such thing as global warming. I mean after all, if there is the same amount of water in the air as there has always been for the time we've been around, then I don't see why we should concern ourselves with that little fact.

CO2 IR Spectra (transmission) - http://www.wag.caltech.edu/home/jang/genchem/ir_img7.gif

Water IR Spectrum (log scale, absorption) - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ctrum.png/800px-Water_absorption_spectrum.png

just a *minor* difference there
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,318
4
76
I'd say anything that relates to real world job skills. So many kids get into college with good test taking skills for irrelevant subjects, yet no real world knowledge.

Unfortunately, the high school my wife works at is cutting all non essential classes due to major budget issues. Kind of sad, they had an engineering course where the kids were building some really neat stuff with an autodesk suite. Their computer programming courses are getting cut now as well.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |