Things You Want Changed

[Dr. Zaus]

I agree that we need a more open mod culture. Right now I do appreciate the massive amount of volunteer work that goes into these forums, but just because they are volunteers does not make them holy and incorruptible. I would not be surprised if a few mods have a personal vendetta against certain members, and with the current system there isn't anything they can do about it.

While I agree that to this outside observer some banns seem motivated by power struggles (RedDawn), personal feelings (moshquerade), against popular sentiment (TheFlyingPig), or for being against such banns (probably the minority of banns)* I would like to add what I don't want changed.

Do not change: Policy against racism and NSFW content.

Why: This is the kind of forum where I can have an intelligent discussion without worrying about being fired for having the discussion. The moderation, while heavy handed and bias at times, also does a VERY good job of kicking racists out and maintaining the SFW status of the conversations. If random penis-avitars and bigotry based insults are what people are looking for I have no doubt that people can find just such a reddit sub-forum. The value proposition here is that we've got smart people who are clean enough for work.


*As I'm sure you're aware there's a forum dedicated to people who've been banned from anandtech; and so I base my 'outside observations' on the screen caps that they have posted of conversations with moderators.

why, please explain...it is easy to say we need new mods. Please explain....

This is not a "tit for tat" response to you JediYoda, so please don't quadruple post in response to it. I am answering you because an answer for "why" was part of the request for suggested changes.

Without formal procedures for dealing with unhappy customers you run into troubles, as can be found with a simple google search. I allegations of wrong-doing should be taken seriously and at very least, instead of writing a scathing article on another web page, an unhappy person should have been able to bring his evidence before someone interested in retaining membership but outside of the moderator community.

Which is why I think it's important to have procedural justice when it comes to banns. It's just common sense customer service.

P.S.

I would like to note that I have never had personal troubles with the moderation here. While I've had many points infracted against me, and even taken 'vacation' time, I completely understand where the moderation was coming from. Further, I should point out that the people over at the 'rebel forums' have a very low opinion of me; in the short time I spent there I was told repeatedly that I was unwelcome because I *perform sexual acts* on the moderators (though clearly not quite so politely).

 

[JEDIYoda]

This is not a "tit for tat" response to you JediYoda, so please don't quadruple post in response to it. I am answering you because an answer for "why" was part of the request for suggested changes.

Without formal procedures for dealing with unhappy customers you run into troubles, as can be found with a simple google search. I allegations of wrong-doing should be taken seriously and at very least, instead of writing a scathing article on another web page, an unhappy person should have been able to bring his evidence before someone interested in retaining membership but outside of the moderator community.

Which is why I think it's important to have procedural justice when it comes to banns. It's just common sense customer service.

P.S.

I would like to note that I have never had personal troubles with the moderation here. While I've had many points infracted against me, and even taken 'vacation' time, I completely understand where the moderation was coming from. Further, I should point out that the people over at the 'rebel forums' have a very low opinion of me; in the short time I spent there I was told repeatedly that I was unwelcome because I *perform sexual acts* on the moderators (though clearly not quite so politely).

well said....

But if I may -- we are NOT customers of this site! We pay nothing except of our own time to be on this site...

 

[crashtech]

A lot has been said about moderation, and although initially I found the procedures here a touch authoritarian, it does seem to work, and although I know that I am free to leave if I don't like it, here I remain.

That said, I have always found the bolded mod edits of user's threads to be be somewhat heavy-handed, and their public nature to run the risk of humiliating users. If anything is changed about moderation, I would like there to be a lot less public shaming of users.

 

[Ketchup]

... That said, I have always found the bolded mod edits of user's threads to be be somewhat heavy-handed, and their public nature to run the risk of humiliating users. If anything is changed about moderation, I would like there to be a lot less public shaming of users.

I would agree with this. I know some mods just delete posts that are out of line. I believe that would be appropriate in most circumstances.

 

[cabri]

I would agree with this. I know some mods just delete posts that are out of line. I believe that would be appropriate in most circumstances.

The deletion of posts then does not allow others to see/understand why there is an issue.


Sarcasm within the Mod's comments maybe should be proportional to the severity of the situation and/or the track record of the poster.

 

[Staples]

A mobile version. Sure I can use tapatalk but I don't care to install separate apps. Neogaf has the best mobile ready forums.

 

[Ketchup]

The deletion of posts then does not allow others to see/understand why there is an issue.


Sarcasm within the Mod's comments maybe should be proportional to the severity of the situation and/or the track record of the poster.

I will just say this, and then move on: I ALMOST NEVER see a mod-edited post that needs explanation. Sarcasm is fine with mods posting as a normal user, and would be a problem eliminated with the flat-out deletion of the offending post. As far as when mods do post reprimands: When you are given a citation from your local police, does sarcasm work well in that situation? I think not.

 

[Ken g6]

That said, I have always found the bolded mod edits of user's threads to be be somewhat heavy-handed, and their public nature to run the risk of humiliating users. If anything is changed about moderation, I would like there to be a lot less public shaming of users.

Sometimes somebody makes a mistake in a post, but the rest of that post is interesting, or at least harmless.

No swearing in the non-social forums -- Programming Moderator Ken g6



How would you suggest mods should react to that, other than by bold edits? Edit the post silently and PM the user? Edit the post silently but infract the user, no exceptions, to help prevent it from happening in the future? Delete the post, no exceptions, just because it broke a forum rule?

(Note: Please don't read too much sarcasm into the above questions. I'd really be interested in finding a better way to deal with such things if you have one.)

 

[crashtech]

Sometimes somebody makes a mistake in a post, but the rest of that post is interesting, or at least harmless.

No swearing in the non-social forums -- Programming Moderator Ken g6



How would you suggest mods should react to that, other than by bold edits? Edit the post silently and PM the user? Edit the post silently but infract the user, no exceptions, to help prevent it from happening in the future? Delete the post, no exceptions, just because it broke a forum rule?

(Note: Please don't read too much sarcasm into the above questions. I'd really be interested in finding a better way to deal with such things if you have one.)

You raise a good point, and if you want my opinion, I would say to edit out the swear words and send the user a PM, although the instance you cite is pretty benign and doesn't represent some of the more interesting bold edits I have seen in the past. But like I mentioned at first, the execution of the forum rules does not keep me from participating, nor do I really have a dog in the fight since I very rarely have a problem. It's just that most of the arguments I see are over points of pride, and in many instances I personally feel the bolded edits only serve to inflame passions or rub salt on wounds. It could be that the mods are working feverishly behind the scenes to prevent from having to scold someone in public, but it doesn't appear that way; the "bolded scold" looks like the go-to first response when I feel it might be used far more sparingly and more appropriately.

 

[esquared]

You raise a good point, and if you want my opinion, I would say to edit out the swear words and send the user a PM, although the instance you cite is pretty benign and doesn't represent some of the more interesting bold edits I have seen in the past. But like I mentioned at first, the execution of the forum rules does not keep me from participating, nor do I really have a dog in the fight since I very rarely have a problem. It's just that most of the arguments I see are over points of pride, and in many instances I personally feel the bolded edits only serve to inflame passions or rub salt on wounds. It could be that the mods are working feverishly behind the scenes to prevent from having to scold someone in public, but it doesn't appear that way; the "bolded scold" looks like the go-to first response when I feel it might be used far more sparingly and more appropriately.

The mod edits are done and left there, for a couple reasons.

1) To let the poster know what he/she did as far as a violation.
2) To serve as a warning to others. This is not meant to be a humiliation to the OP.
It's meant to be a teaching point for others. (i.e don't make that same mistake).
3) To let any other person who may be reading the thread what we did. We are not supposed to edit threads without stating why. Just as when a thread is closed, there needs to be a reason given for the lock by a mod.

Many times, if we have time, and the incident isn't serious, we may send the OP a message and ask that he/she to edit out whatever isn't conforming to the rules. This is time permitting of course. If a mod is busy, they may just want to deal with it at the moment. Sending a PM and responding to it at a later time, checking to see if in fact the edit was made, does take extra time, and is not always an option.

 

[norseamd]

Keep the mod edits as not only does it serve some of the purposes said above but it also is good for transparency.

 

[crashtech]

The mod edits are done and left there, for a couple reasons.

1) To let the poster know what he/she did as far as a violation.
2) To serve as a warning to others. This is not meant to be a humiliation to the OP.
It's meant to be a teaching point for others. (i.e don't make that same mistake).
3) To let any other person who may be reading the thread what we did. We are not supposed to edit threads without stating why. Just as when a thread is closed, there needs to be a reason given for the lock by a mod.

Many times, if we have time, and the incident isn't serious, we may send the OP a message and ask that he/she to edit out whatever isn't conforming to the rules. This is time permitting of course. If a mod is busy, they may just want to deal with it at the moment. Sending a PM and responding to it at a later time, checking to see if in fact the edit was made, does take extra time, and is not always an option.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I may be in a minority for thinking that the current system can end up seeming a bit mercurial at times, but I respectfully stand by that opinion nonetheless. Perhaps if the forum leadership feels that bold mod comments are indispensable as a first-line disciplinary measure, then tighter regulations on their utilization and a set of canned responses could be developed to help achieve consistency in appearance and enforcement; such measures might help preempt allegations of erratic rule enforcement.

Hopefully such criticism can be seen in a positive light, either way, I'll just mosey on back to my corner now and let someone else have the soapbox.

 

[Greenman]

Sometimes somebody makes a mistake in a post, but the rest of that post is interesting, or at least harmless.

No swearing in the non-social forums please-- Programming Moderator Ken g6



How would you suggest mods should react to that, other than by bold edits? Edit the post silently and PM the user? Edit the post silently but infract the user, no exceptions, to help prevent it from happening in the future? Delete the post, no exceptions, just because it broke a forum rule?

(Note: Please don't read too much sarcasm into the above questions. I'd really be interested in finding a better way to deal with such things if you have one.)

There you go. Added one word.

 

[JEDIYoda]

While we are at it....any thread that can be considered Pornographic in nature needs to be deleted from the forums. There have been times when in the evening people join and by morning there are several threads....they should be deleted! Not locked. Why does a thread like that need to be locked...it serves no purpose so other will not post another thread as such..

 

[olds]

While we are at it....any thread that can be considered Pornographic in nature needs to be deleted from the forums. There have been times when in the evening people join and by morning there are several threads....they should be deleted! Not locked. Why does a thread like that need to be locked...it serves no purpose so other will not post another thread as such..

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37064755&postcount=360

 

[JEDIYoda]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...&postcount=360

I`m sorry but you said what?

If the thread is pornographic you don`t leave the thread up for all to see!
In fact I would think that posting a pornographic thread would be an automatic ban!

We are all or should be adult enough to know that you just do not go there!

Thus there is no reason for any of what you posted --
The mod edits are done and left there, for a couple reasons.

1) To let the poster know what he/she did as far as a violation.
2) To serve as a warning to others. This is not meant to be a humiliation to the OP.
It's meant to be a teaching point for others. (i.e don't make that same mistake).
3) To let any other person who may be reading the thread what we did. We are not supposed to edit threads without stating why. Just as when a thread is closed, there needs to be a reason given for the lock by a mod.

Many times, if we have time, and the incident isn't serious, we may send the OP a message and ask that he/she to edit out whatever isn't conforming to the rules. This is time permitting of course. If a mod is busy, they may just want to deal with it at the moment. Sending a PM and responding to it at a later time, checking to see if in fact the edit was made, does take extra time, and is not always an option.

 

[norseamd]

I`m sorry but you said what?

If the thread is pornographic you don`t leave the thread up for all to see!
In fact I would think that posting a pornographic thread would be an automatic ban!

We are all or should be adult enough to know that you just do not go there!

Thus there is no reason for any of what you posted --
The mod edits are done and left there, for a couple reasons.

1) To let the poster know what he/she did as far as a violation.
2) To serve as a warning to others. This is not meant to be a humiliation to the OP.
It's meant to be a teaching point for others. (i.e don't make that same mistake).
3) To let any other person who may be reading the thread what we did. We are not supposed to edit threads without stating why. Just as when a thread is closed, there needs to be a reason given for the lock by a mod.

Many times, if we have time, and the incident isn't serious, we may send the OP a message and ask that he/she to edit out whatever isn't conforming to the rules. This is time permitting of course. If a mod is busy, they may just want to deal with it at the moment. Sending a PM and responding to it at a later time, checking to see if in fact the edit was made, does take extra time, and is not always an option.

So what is the de facto and not the de jure rationale and motives concerning this Jediyoda?

 

[olds]

I`m sorry but you said what?

If the thread is pornographic you don`t leave the thread up for all to see!
In fact I would think that posting a pornographic thread would be an automatic ban!

We are all or should be adult enough to know that you just do not go there!

Thus there is no reason for any of what you posted --
The mod edits are done and left there, for a couple reasons.

1) To let the poster know what he/she did as far as a violation.
2) To serve as a warning to others. This is not meant to be a humiliation to the OP.
It's meant to be a teaching point for others. (i.e don't make that same mistake).
3) To let any other person who may be reading the thread what we did. We are not supposed to edit threads without stating why. Just as when a thread is closed, there needs to be a reason given for the lock by a mod.

Many times, if we have time, and the incident isn't serious, we may send the OP a message and ask that he/she to edit out whatever isn't conforming to the rules. This is time permitting of course. If a mod is busy, they may just want to deal with it at the moment. Sending a PM and responding to it at a later time, checking to see if in fact the edit was made, does take extra time, and is not always an option.

You are dense beyond all reason.
The Mods remove the porn link and leave the thread up as a tool.
A little advice for you and I am being sincere: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

 

[Greenman]

You are dense beyond all reason.
The Mods remove the porn link and leave the thread up as a tool.
A little advice for you and I am being sincere: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

If only you'd shared that with him a few years back. I may never forgive you for that omission.

 

[cabri]

You are dense beyond all reason.
The Mods remove the porn link and leave the thread up as a tool.
A little advice for you and I am being sincere: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

If only you'd shared that with him a few years back. I may never forgive you for that omission.

Such is usually passed down from father to son.

However, in most cases the son never listens until to late

 

[chubbyfatazn]

Done.

This request has been approved and is being processed. Due to the holidays, we expect the change will take place within a matter of weeks. Our objective will be the complete elimination of the downtime period, rather than a rescheduling. You may see another downtime or two before we are able to enact this change, but it is approved and in process.

Much appreciate everyone's feedback so far - please keep them coming.

Are we going back to scheduled maintenance on Saturday nights? I remember not seeing any downtime soon after you posted this but the forums went down the past two Saturday nights.

 

[jpishgar]

A big part of what Community (my team) does is sifting the noise to signal ratio in a thread like this. 15 pages of feedback, dozens of instant messages and a big pile of conversations later, we have what is in essence the boiled down, concentrated feedback of the userbase. I'll be forwarding this along to our development team for prioritization and assessment on each item.

Bear in mind, while every piece of feedback was listened to, not all made the cut to the final list. And, not every item listed here may come to fruition within the fullness of time. This is a tentative wishlist, culled from your directed feedback and input.

Technical:

• Add more emoticons
• Update vBulletin theme, bring in line with Anandtech logos and colors
• Provide alternative vBulletin themes (low light, high contrast, etc).
• Address formatting and alignment issues to make forum viewing more user-friendly
o Left-side navigation should scroll with the page
• Server Issues: Reduce or eliminate scheduled downtime (Underway)
• Introduce custom titles & flair
• Add flair/icons for threads based on type or prefix to make at-a-glance viewing easier.
• Tie article commentary to forum threads (new articles posted should produce a new thread as comments in the forum) instead of standalone.
• Update Tapatalk plugin, removal of Tapatalk popup when accessing mobile forums.
• Allow embedded videos (YouTube). May be an administrative option.
• Update Search functionality
• Update/migrate vBulletin to the latest version (3 or 4, not 5)

Infrastructural/Policy:

• Restructure community titles, including Administrator, Moderator.
• Update Moderator Abuse Report process to include review and appeals using a neutral third-party arbiter.
• Add new private subforum for users with ‘Lifer’ rank or higher
• Add new Android section
• Merge/Eliminate categories with low traffic, include merging miscellaneous categories back into Off-Topic. (Note: Retain Distributed Computing)
• Increase prominence of Rules of Conduct across the forum as stickies/announcements
• Codify Politics & News rules

Will let you guys know where these items go and chime in with additional information as we get updates.

-JP

 

[Ketchup]

This is quite impressive jpishgar.

No matter if one agrees with all the changes or not, one has to admit that the amount of listening to the posts in this thread is quite impressive.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

A big part of what Community (my team) does is sifting the noise to signal ratio in a thread like this. 15 pages of feedback, dozens of instant messages and a big pile of conversations later, we have what is in essence the boiled down, concentrated feedback of the userbase. I'll be forwarding this along to our development team for prioritization and assessment on each item.

Bear in mind, while every piece of feedback was listened to, not all made the cut to the final list. And, not every item listed here may come to fruition within the fullness of time. This is a tentative wishlist, culled from your directed feedback and input.

Technical:

• Add more emoticons
• Update vBulletin theme, bring in line with Anandtech logos and colors
• Provide alternative vBulletin themes (low light, high contrast, etc).
• Address formatting and alignment issues to make forum viewing more user-friendly
o Left-side navigation should scroll with the page
• Server Issues: Reduce or eliminate scheduled downtime (Underway)
• Introduce custom titles & flair
• Add flair/icons for threads based on type or prefix to make at-a-glance viewing easier.
• Tie article commentary to forum threads (new articles posted should produce a new thread as comments in the forum) instead of standalone.
• Update Tapatalk plugin, removal of Tapatalk popup when accessing mobile forums.
• Allow embedded videos (YouTube). May be an administrative option.
• Update Search functionality
• Update/migrate vBulletin to the latest version (3 or 4, not 5)

Infrastructural/Policy:

• Restructure community titles, including Administrator, Moderator.
• Update Moderator Abuse Report process to include review and appeals using a neutral third-party arbiter.
• Add new private subforum for users with ‘Lifer’ rank or higher
• Add new Android section
• Merge/Eliminate categories with low traffic, include merging miscellaneous categories back into Off-Topic. (Note: Retain Distributed Computing)
• Increase prominence of Rules of Conduct across the forum as stickies/announcements
• Codify Politics & News rules

Will let you guys know where these items go and chime in with additional information as we get updates.

-JP

I could not be happier that these ideas will be considered at the next level up, thank you jpishgar.

 

[cabri]

Worth waiting for 10 years for someone to actually listen to the membership, respond to them and not have it filtered :thumbsup: