Things You Want Changed

[Dr. Zaus]

hey jpishgar

The Moderation discussion? yeah waste of time and resources. There is no possible way to have a meaningful discussion about the site because the moderation is a issue. When you bring it up you get infracted or banned.

for shits and giggles if you can read "change of culture" thread.

My suggestions did not lead to an infraction:

Change Requested: Allow users to designate their own custom user titles
Why: It is currently possible but no means of 'earning' it is listed

Change Requested: Bans limited to one year except for spammers
Why: People change, perspectives change, tempers calm down. I've lost a number of people that I consider friends because of the permanent banning policy.

Change Requested: Paid moderation
Why: When someone is paid to do the job they become servants of the community; there is no "respect" due to them, as moderation is their job, not labor they are giving away. For example, the amount of power give to a stewardess is amazing, but she still acts like her job is customer service.

Change requested: Ability to have a temporary/different forum handle for L&R
Why: Over the (nearly) decades we've all gotten to know each other quite well; If I say on L&R "My wife cheated on me" someone could figure out who I am and it could cause her problems.

Change requested: A legitimate means of reporting a moderator for abuse which gets to the ears of someone interested in retaining membership
Why: Procedural justice, the sense that the way we do things is fair for everyone, is essential to maintaining a general sense of openness and fairness.

With this many people, there should be some sort of mission for the forums; a vision for where it is going; and a set of values that it adheres to. Further it should be run more strategically: New products should be introduced that meet current needs/demands; and people who use the forum for something unexpected should not be repressed but seen as bringing an opportunity to serve a new market.

It's clear that if a CSR is being insulted on a forum they are not likely behaving like a CSR. Further, when the CSR establishment starts punishing the customers for being unhappy 'the wrong way' with the customer service there's something systemically wrong. But the culture of moderation here is NOT that of customer service but of politeness-police that enforce social norms: where the greatest law is "do not be impolite to the politeness police."

My suggestion that the new owners change this situation didn't involve breaking the current politeness law; therefore I believe it will be much more likely to lead to the change I'm seeking. If you start to insult the current group of volunteers then you create an 'in group' which is going to include the new ownership, and an 'out group' of those doing the insulting whom are going to just look like juveniles from the perspective of new ownership. Which means even good ideas will not get through, because ownership and volunteers will necessarily become insular.

 

[JEDIYoda]

My suggestion is that we understand that the MODs are human and as such can and will make mistakes.

For the most part nothing really needs to be done about the mods and what some would claim to be inappropriate conduct@!

As far as complaints getting to somebody who wants to retain membership. I do not see at all where that would be helpful.

Sure one person is important, but at the same time you don`t go about punishing a Mod in order to retain one person.

There is nobody on these forums who if they did something wrong 100 of their friends would leave the forum if that one person was punished. Nobody is that important!

Also it has been common knowledge that if a MOD posts in a thread they are posting as a regular member and not a MOD thus they can be criticized as a member of the forum.

Yet it is not cool and correctly not allowed to criticize them as a MOD when they are posting in a thread. That I find is not difficult to understand at all!!

My comments as related to what I am reading have not broken any of the for to mentioned politeness agreement!!

 

[Gand1]

Moderation needs a redo. Like others have said and I'm not sure who specifically said it, but the mods need to be completely changed and ALL new moderators should be voted in. (and maybe have something like term limits) I have not been banned like many other quality posters for whatever their infractions may be but, the moderation on this forum is why I do not post here anymore.

 

[Greenman]

My suggestion is that we understand that the MODs are human and as such can and will make mistakes.

For the most part nothing really needs to be done about the mods and what some would claim to be inappropriate conduct@!

As far as complaints getting to somebody who wants to retain membership. I do not see at all where that would be helpful.

Sure one person is important, but at the same time you don`t go about punishing a Mod in order to retain one person.

There is nobody on these forums who if they did something wrong 100 of their friends would leave the forum if that one person was punished. Nobody is that important!

Also it has been common knowledge that if a MOD posts in a thread they are posting as a regular member and not a MOD thus they can be criticized as a member of the forum.

Yet it is not cool and correctly not allowed to criticize them as a MOD when they are posting in a thread. That I find is not difficult to understand at all!!

My comments as related to what I am reading have not broken any of the for to mentioned politeness agreement!!

I agree, the mods are human and subject to all of the foibles we humans have. So I'd like to see a lot of banned members have their bans reviewed. I can think of a dozen right off hand that are pretty good people. Perhaps we could have someone spend an hour or two a week reviewing disputed bans, and reversing any that were found to be marginal? That would be real community building.

 

[Ketchup]

In theory, I would like to see a voting system using for mods. It would signify that we all play a part here.

Practically, I don't know how that would work. Are the forums like a democracy where the majority rules, or like a business where you just receive the "guess what, you have a new boss now" emails?

 

[DrPizza]

In theory, I would like to see a voting system using for mods. It would signify that we all play a part here.

Practically, I don't know how that would work. Are the forums like a democracy where the majority rules, or like a business where you just receive the "guess what, you have a new boss now" emails?

In February 2008, we did have a system for electing moderators for the individual non-social forums. There were quite a few problems with doing this in those forums. E.g., I think many are aware that there are two "sides" in the Video Card and Graphics forum. If the Red team nominated a person who was obviously very biased pro-Red, anti-anything-green, that was going to cause problems and outrage. And, vice versa - it's difficult enough as it is convincing people that the moderation in that area is not biased. (And, I commonly find it amusing when I see one person get bent out of shape and say "Moderator A is pro-nVidia" and another person says "Moderator A is pro-AMD."

Anyway, my perception is that voting in moderators in the separate forums really didn't do a whole lot toward signifying that everyone plays a part here. Heck, look at P&N. Just a couple years ago, all insults were banned from that forum on a trial basis. A few months later, it was put up to a vote whether that should be continued, or if insults should be allowed. Allowing insults won the vote - but it didn't necessarily make 40-45% of those voting happy, since they preferred it more civil in there. -Admin DrPizza

 

[mnewsham]

Moderation needs a redo. Like others have said and I'm not sure who specifically said it, but the mods need to be completely changed and ALL new moderators should be voted in. (and maybe have something like term limits) I have not been banned like many other quality posters for whatever their infractions may be but, the moderation on this forum is why I do not post here anymore.

agreed

 

[JEDIYoda]

Moderation needs a redo. Like others have said and I'm not sure who specifically said it, but the mods need to be completely changed and ALL new moderators should be voted in. (and maybe have something like term limits) I have not been banned like many other quality posters for whatever their infractions may be but, the moderation on this forum is why I do not post here anymore.

why, please explain...it is easy to say we need new mods. Please explain....
It`s odd that you would say this when currently most of the mods are experts or very on top of their field and knowledgeable concerning the forums they work in!
When I see posts like yours I can`t help but think perhaps people have a hard time posting under the present guidelines that the mods enforce.

If there were all new Mods this place would be the biggest joke of the internet!! Currently when you have issues you can come and post and a mod will usually see the post and if nobody elses is trying to help the mod will jump in and help......

 

[BoomerD]

The more things change...the more they stay the same.

 

[norseamd]

How about we start an open mod forum where everyone can discuss moderation while still keeping the private moderation subforum to prevent the stifling and tyranny of the majority.

My suggestion is that we understand that the MODs are human and as such can and will make mistakes.

Yes obviously this is true.

For the most part nothing really needs to be done about the mods

Maybe or maybe not. This is not black and white and doing something does not need to be considered as punishment or even actions focused on one mod. This is a complex issue and needs to be treated as such with many options considered. Does not mean this is a prominent issue just suggesting that it does not need to be overlooked.

Yet it is not cool and correctly not allowed to criticize them as a MOD when they are posting in a thread. That I find is not difficult to understand at all!!

There is some issue with this problem as it enforces a totalitarian culture. The mods need to know how to deal with disruptive trolling and conflict while at the same time not preventing any possibly valid criticism.

In February 2008, we did have a system for electing moderators for the individual non-social forums. There were quite a few problems with doing this in those forums. E.g., I think many are aware that there are two "sides" in the Video Card and Graphics forum. If the Red team nominated a person who was obviously very biased pro-Red, anti-anything-green, that was going to cause problems and outrage. And, vice versa - it's difficult enough as it is convincing people that the moderation in that area is not biased. (And, I commonly find it amusing when I see one person get bent out of shape and say "Moderator A is pro-nVidia" and another person says "Moderator A is pro-AMD."

And obviously this is a problem that is not going to go away just because some want to vote in mods. I have never supported votes for mods because some natural reflex or something and maybe this is why.

Anyway, my perception is that voting in moderators in the separate forums really didn't do a whole lot toward signifying that everyone plays a part here. Heck, look at P&N. Just a couple years ago, all insults were banned from that forum on a trial basis. A few months later, it was put up to a vote whether that should be continued, or if insults should be allowed. Allowing insults won the vote - but it didn't necessarily make 40-45% of those voting happy, since they preferred it more civil in there. -Admin DrPizza

As much as I hate the different rules for swearing and confictual language on the subforums I am not sure the alternatives might be any more beneficial and probably detrimental.

It`s odd that you would say this when currently most of the mods are experts or very on top of their field and knowledgeable concerning the forums they work in!

The mods on Anandtech are volunteers and while I think they are good they are not certified professionals. And I think most of Anandtech could not do the same job with the same level of competence as most of the mods we have now. So this discussion would gain many benefits from less propaganda and more transparency and objectivity.

 

[LevelSea]

In February 2008, we did have a system for electing moderators for the individual non-social forums. There were quite a few problems with doing this in those forums. E.g., I think many are aware that there are two "sides" in the Video Card and Graphics forum. If the Red team nominated a person who was obviously very biased pro-Red, anti-anything-green, that was going to cause problems and outrage. And, vice versa - it's difficult enough as it is convincing people that the moderation in that area is not biased. (And, I commonly find it amusing when I see one person get bent out of shape and say "Moderator A is pro-nVidia" and another person says "Moderator A is pro-AMD."

Anyway, my perception is that voting in moderators in the separate forums really didn't do a whole lot toward signifying that everyone plays a part here. Heck, look at P&N. Just a couple years ago, all insults were banned from that forum on a trial basis. A few months later, it was put up to a vote whether that should be continued, or if insults should be allowed. Allowing insults won the vote - but it didn't necessarily make 40-45% of those voting happy, since they preferred it more civil in there. -Admin DrPizza

Was this a vote for just subforum moderators? Or did it apply to administrators/overlords as well?

 

[cabri]

Was this a vote for just subforum moderators? Or did it apply to administrators/overlords as well?

I believe Administrators were the moderators when the switch from FT to vB happened and identities were required by TPTB to be reviled - openness/accountability.

Overlord became a self appointed "egotistical?" title as the moderators' representative(s) to Anand. ?Emphasizing that that is the one in charge without question?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Emphasizing that that is the one in charge without question?

as it should be......
This is a private sight.....anarchy would reign if everybody had a say in what was happening......

 

[JEDIYoda]

There is some issue with this problem as it enforces a totalitarian culture. The mods need to know how to deal with disruptive trolling and conflict while at the same time not preventing any possibly valid criticism.

When a MOD posts in a thread all valid criticism concerning that post that has to do with that thread and the MOD posting is always accepted!!

Its when you use the opportunity to attack that MOD for being a MOD that is out of line!!
Many times I have butted heads with MODs who are posting in a thread.....no issues yet!!

Then again I have never attacked a MOD by saying something lie -- That Opinion was stupid coming from a MOD. <--- that would be out of line.
Yet -- saying I disagree with your stupid opinion (insert MODs name) is appropriate and accepted!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

The mods on Anandtech are volunteers and while I think they are good they are not certified professionals. And I think most of Anandtech could not do the same job with the same level of competence as most of the mods we have now. So this discussion would gain many benefits from less propaganda and more transparency and objectivity.

Nobody said they were certified professional did they?? Puleeze........
Propoganda how?
Transparency and objectivity are in the eyes of the beholder...I am sure our new overlords have access to all the threads in these forums and are quite capable seeing what you say needs to happen verses what perhaps after looking they might not agree with you....

This will be interesting to see how it plays out that is for sure.
But I wouldn`t be surprised if there were some minor changes but no big changes.....which I believe doesn`t need to happen! Peace!!

 

[LevelSea]

as it should be......
This is a private sight.....anarchy would reign if everybody had a say in what was happening......

What does having elections on admins and mods have anything to do it being a private site? Purch could kill the forums tomorrow if they wanted to, but they're here asking for suggestions. A more democratic method of administration wouldn't cause anarchy, if anything it'd let the community know that the owners value their opinion. Our page views make them money, wouldn't it be in their best interest for the community to have a say?

New owners, new admins, new mods, and allow the perma-banned (non-spam) ex-members to join back in. A fresh start for everyone.

 

[Rinaun]

Moderation needs a redo. Like others have said and I'm not sure who specifically said it, but the mods need to be completely changed and ALL new moderators should be voted in. (and maybe have something like term limits) I have not been banned like many other quality posters for whatever their infractions may be but, the moderation on this forum is why I do not post here anymore.

This. There is maybe 3-4 mods that should be mods. I'm sure the current ones are trustworthy, but trust is maybe 1/10th of the formula for a good moderator. The moderating I've seen in the past 3 years banned people I've seen for years over petty things (including errors on the staff's part during the admin forum leak) has caused me to entirely stop posting, as well as a few of my friends.

P.S. whoever thought banning people for the admin forum leak was an acceptable response really needs administrator removed. That was probably the worst way possible to handle the issue, and the forum took a dive for months afterwards. Anandtech off-topic was pretty much dead for almost a year after that due to people being terrified. This isn't even factoring in most who got banned made new accounts and continued on. Bottom line, whatever admin decided to ban users for their own mistakes deserves a "wow you're a dipsht" badge.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What does having elections on admins and mods have anything to do it being a private site? Purch could kill the forums tomorrow if they wanted to, but they're here asking for suggestions. A more democratic method of administration wouldn't cause anarchy, if anything it'd let the community know that the owners value their opinion. Our page views make them money, wouldn't it be in their best interest for the community to have a say?

New owners, new admins, new mods, and allow the perma-banned (non-spam) ex-members to join back in. A fresh start for everyone.

First of all the words "Democratic method"are meaningless. Purch has already let the community know that opinions are valued. Some opinions although being valued are not practical or good for this particular site!

No it would not IMO be in PURCHs best interest by letting the community have a say! When they have asked for suggestions which is a start!

Yet -- PURCH also has experience with the sites they own and quite honestly do not need even our opinions or suggestions to know what needs to be done.

In fact your could almost say at present they are humoring the community by allowing for suggestions.

I am 100% sure they already know what they are going to do.....

 

[Bryophyte]

why, please explain...it is easy to say we need new mods. Please explain....
It`s odd that you would say this when currently most of the mods are experts or very on top of their field and knowledgeable concerning the forums they work in!
When I see posts like yours I can`t help but think perhaps people have a hard time posting under the present guidelines that the mods enforce.

If there were all new Mods this place would be the biggest joke of the internet!! Currently when you have issues you can come and post and a mod will usually see the post and if nobody elses is trying to help the mod will jump in and help......

ROFL

 

[RossMAN]

Was this a vote for just subforum moderators? Or did it apply to administrators/overlords as well?

This is only my second attempt at using search by URL, please let me know if the following link doesn't work for you.

New Moderator Selection

 

[LevelSea]

This is only my second attempt at using search by URL, please let me know if the following link doesn't work for you.

New Moderator Selection

:thumbsup:

Looks like only technical forum mods were voted on.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Looks like only technical forum mods were voted on.

ummm...ok

The next question should be who is allowed to vote and what should the post count limit be for voting?

After all it would be very easy to stack the deck with new members just to influence a vote...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Was this a vote for just subforum moderators? Or did it apply to administrators/overlords as well?

If you read what was posted your question was already answered..

 

[MongGrel]

Just to make one comment in all honesty myself, I like things as they are and other than a few things that have been done all ready on suggestions, if it's not broke don't fix it.

I'm sure there are going to be changes over time, but to me most things here are pretty well balanced all ready.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I agree that we need a more open mod culture. Right now I do appreciate the massive amount of volunteer work that goes into these forums, but just because they are volunteers does not make them holy and incorruptible. I would not be surprised if a few mods have a personal vendetta against certain members, and with the current system there isn't anything they can do about it.