Think i made a mistake buying my Mazda

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Oh please - don't get into this fictional "unbalanced engine" crap. They work perfectly - what's the problem?

Engine balance is not fictional. It's a real issue. The problem is that V6's require a great deal of engineering in order for them to run smoothly, including at least 2 power-robbing balance shafts and a heavy counterweighted crankshaft.

Sure, they can be made to work "perfectly", but the reason to have more cylinders is NOT to add power (that's a myth -- displacement is power, not the number of cylinders), but to increase engine smoothness. The V6 engine configuration does not do that.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: jagec
V-6's are almost useless engines IMHO. There are few things that a V6 can do, that a big I4 or small V8 can't do better. Or at least an I-6...

this is a pretty stupid statement righ here

How so? The only real benefit of a V6 is its relatively compact package. Otherwise, it's one of the most naturally unbalanced engine configurations possible.

packaging IS everything. a V6 will fit where an I6 won't. a V6 will fit where a large I4 won't.

True about the I6, but I don't believe you about the large I4. I can't think of a situation where an I4 wouldn't fit, but a similar-horsepower V6 would.

Besides, people can and do stuff Northstar V8's into MR2s and Golfs.

 

[Zee]

Originally posted by: conjur

<--- Getting 22/29 on my Mazda 6 4cyl (5-speed)


Could probably bump that up a fair amount if I shifted sooner.

that's true, i have the mazda3s (same engine as yours) and after shifting sooner i get about 28mpg for half highway/half city commute

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
packaging IS everything. a V6 will fit where an I6 won't. a V6 will fit where a large I4 won't.

This is true. An I6 is not a compact package. A large I4 could be made compact, but uneducated consumers with money to spend would generally buy a V6 over the same size I4, even with all else equal. Which is why most manufacturers do not make 4-cylinder engines capable of competing with their V6 engines.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: BasementOgre
thats pretty brutal, even for a truck. I know that with my dakotas I got about 10/11 mpg but I drove it hard and they both had 360's in them.
Maybe you have a bad O2 sensor, you should check online and see if there are problems with your motor that many other people are experiencing.

I have a dodge Ram with a 360.

I can sometimes squeeze 18 on the highway because of the tall gearing (3.55 and 32" tires), but that tall gearing hurts my city average.

 

[Kev]

I average about 16 in my 6 doing mostly city driving. I don't care though, it's not like its breaking the bank to pay a few extra bucks to fill up

 

[Papagayo]

Originally posted by: Zorro
Getting 12-14 mpgs

Yeah, either something is wrong with the car or you suck A55 at driving..

I'm choosing the second one..

 

[Meltz]

But don't V6's tend to have more torque at lower RPMs than I4's?

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
That's why I chose the Honda Accord I4

Peppy 150HP engine, uses REGULAR UNLEADED gas and great mileage.

/me hugs his Honda

Yep my 2002 Accord SE is the bomb! And Im glad I like it cuz it will probably be around for another 10 years!!

 

[dennisjai215]

if you are driving a manual.. this message is for you..

STUPID, switch gears at 3000 RPMs quit redlining!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Kev
I average about 16 in my 6 doing mostly city driving. I don't care though, it's not like its breaking the bank to pay a few extra bucks to fill up

Wow, that's not good. I get 21 mpg in my WRX with mostly city driving, and my right foot is not light. Takes premium though...

Originally posted by: Meltz
But don't V6's tend to have more torque at lower RPMs than I4's?

No. Torque curve is the product of engine design (i.e. cams, pistons, valves, etc), not cylinder configuration. For example, you could build a low-end torque-oriented I4 (i.e. Jeep Wrangler) or a top-end high-revving horsepower-oriented V6 (i.e. Nissan 350Z).

 

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Zorro
Getting 12-14 mpgs

That is NOT normal. Take it to the dealer to get it looked at.

I would bet my bottom dollar that since he bought a brand new car, he is spending quite a bit of time getting on top of that engine. I did the same thing when I first bought my subaru. I wasn't getting the posted gas mileage until I stopped driving aggressively everytime I hit the gas.
Drive more conservatively and your gas mileage will benefit.

I really have no sympathy for people who buy bigger engines and then complain about gas mileage.

 

[ElFenix]

ah ha, the previous thread on big I4s vs small V6s
basically, small V6 wins

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: Toasthead

Originally posted by: RossMAN
That's why I chose the Honda Accord I4

Peppy 150HP engine, uses REGULAR UNLEADED gas and great mileage.

/me hugs his Honda

Yep my 2002 Accord SE is the bomb! And Im glad I like it cuz it will probably be around for another 10 years!!

We own the EXACT same model, what color is yours?

Ours is red with automatic and all the usual SE upgrades :thumbsup:

How many miles do you have? We bought ours June 2002 and have almost hit 15,000 miles.

 

[V00DOO]

Originally posted by: Zorro
Getting 12-14 mpgs

WTF. I get 20 MPG with my 4.4 V8.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
ah ha, the previous thread on big I4s vs small V6s
basically, small V6 wins

Which is why the H4 is the best of all small-to-mid-sized engine configurations. No balance shafts or even counterweighted crankshafts needed, and still a nicely compact and lightweight package. Only drawbacks are higher manufacturing cost and more difficult engine lubrication.

 

[PTCvette]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
Instead of heading to the dealer - take a look at the most likely cause of the problem - the driver. How are you driving the car?

That was my first thought as well. Keep the pedal off the floor and your gas mileage wouldn't be so bad.

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ElFenix
ah ha, the previous thread on big I4s vs small V6s
basically, small V6 wins

Which is why the H4 is the best of all small-to-mid-sized engine configurations. No balance shafts or even counterweighted crankshafts needed, and still a nicely compact and lightweight package. Only drawbacks are higher manufacturing cost and more difficult engine lubrication.

What manufacturers/models offer the H4 engine?

 

[rh71]

I get 14mpg and don't care.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: RossMAN


What manufacturers/models offer the H4 engine?

subaru.

but then, they cost a lot more than an I4 and are wider since the pistons stick out from both sides

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RossMAN

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ElFenix
ah ha, the previous thread on big I4s vs small V6s
basically, small V6 wins

Which is why the H4 is the best of all small-to-mid-sized engine configurations. No balance shafts or even counterweighted crankshafts needed, and still a nicely compact and lightweight package. Only drawbacks are higher manufacturing cost and more difficult engine lubrication.

What manufacturers/models offer the H4 engine?

At this time, only Subaru.

Porsche used to as their bread-and-butter, but switched to the H6 (an even better balanced design) some years back.

 

[BatmanNate]

l6's are naturally balanced, but tend to be long and wouldn't work well for FWD configurations.

And didn't Porchse or VW make some H4 engines as well?

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: rh71
I get 14mpg and don't care.

Cuz you work for Fortune 500 company and you are pimping rich? is either that or you have your wifey paying the gas

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
ah ha, the previous thread on big I4s vs small V6s
basically, small V6 wins

Wow... thought I might point out that the thread lost credibility with me due to some serious uncorrected (but obvious) misinformation.

4 cyls fire every 180 degrees. 6 cyls every 120. 8 cyls every 90.

4 cycles, people. 2 cycles per revolution. Opposing pistons travel up and down together, but on opposite cycles.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
ah ha, the previous thread on big I4s vs small V6s
basically, small V6 wins

hmm?

I didn't read the entire thing, but the impression I got was that I4's had to get pretty big to start losing to V6's...big enough that a small V8 would be a better option.

1996 Chevy Caprice (V8)- 260hp - 17/26mpg
1996 Nissan Maxima (V6)- 190hp - 21/28mpg
1996 Dodge Avenger (V6) - 163hp - 20/27mpg
1996 Dodge Avenger (I4)- 140hp - 21/30mpg
1996 Toyota Celica (I4)- 105hp - 27/34mpg
(all automatic)

Don't get me wrong, a ~200hp I4 would probably be less efficient than a ~200hp V6, but V-6's only really have a sweet spot between 160 and 220 hp. And frankly, the jump from that sweet spot to a V8 with much more power does NOT sacrifice much mileage.