Think SUN has a chance?

[bob4432]

Sun

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Mad Hatter? Just seems like it'll be yet another linux distro to me. Of course they're trying to push Java along with it, and we all know everyone LOVES java.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Mad Hatter? Just seems like it'll be yet another linux distro to me. Of course they're trying to push Java along with it, and we all know everyone LOVES java.

Is Java really that bad?

 

[yruffostsif]

None. Java $uck$ harder than an out of control Hoover on crack!

 

[Sunner]

I guess the difference is in the deal as a whole.
Get a deal, you get 500 desktops, OS, office suite, department servers, some big iron, and support for all of it from the same company.

Sun's name alone is worth alot.

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Mad Hatter? Just seems like it'll be yet another linux distro to me. Of course they're trying to push Java along with it, and we all know everyone LOVES java.

Isn't mad hatter just GNOME 2.4 with a few sun patches added on?

 

[dawks]

Interesting, simply clicking the reply button on the quick reply, makes a post with no content

Anyway, im a bit tweaked by this comment.

"We're talking about a radical savings -- more than 75 percent over just the comparable upgrade cost for Microsoft,"

Im not sure I understand that.. So paying $50 per user per year.. is cheaper then me paying $130 once, two years ago, for XP, with 5 users using it regularly? - Until I want to stop using it..

Sun officials say its system will cost as little as $50 per user per year

Ahh, I guess this charge will include their star office, so then you'd have to factor in the 'high cost' of Office also, that makes it a little more reasonable.

Im really not much of a fan of subscription based software myself.

Java blows in my opinion. I have yet to see a real use for it. Although I havent seen it applied in mobile devices like cell phones. it may or may not be useful there.

 

[Nothinman]

Im not sure I understand that.. So paying $50 per user per year.. is cheaper then me paying $130 once, two years ago, for XP, with 5 users using it regularly? - Until I want to stop using it..

Not having read the article, I doubt this is aimed at you at home.

Im really not much of a fan of subscription based software myself.

Not many consumers are, but that's the way it's going. Sure glad I use 99% Free Software here =)

 

[ITJunkie]

_____________________________________

Not many consumers are, but that's the way it's going. Sure glad I use 99% Free Software here =)

_____________________________________


hear hear :beer:

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Im not sure I understand that.. So paying $50 per user per year.. is cheaper then me paying $130 once, two years ago, for XP, with 5 users using it regularly? - Until I want to stop using it..

Not having read the article, I doubt this is aimed at you at home.

Im really not much of a fan of subscription based software myself.

Not many consumers are, but that's the way it's going. Sure glad I use 99% Free Software here =)

Everything but ati-drivers for me.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: Spyro

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Mad Hatter? Just seems like it'll be yet another linux distro to me. Of course they're trying to push Java along with it, and we all know everyone LOVES java.

Is Java really that bad?

There is plenty of criticism of Java the language, but I can't really say much about it, since I don't know Java. Honestly though, Java the language doesn't seem all that bad to me. Seems like a hybrid of C++ and Python.

Java the *software*, the runtime .. thingie, or whatever it is called, and apps written in Java, don't seem to be all that well liked by anyone. I guess Sun realized all of that and started focusing on J2EE and JSP and JLMNOP, and I guess that's working out better for them. But now with Mad Hatter they're tossing in the Java name as if it's some big deal. I don't know about other people, but it seems to me like Java is something that Sun has been trying to get people excited about for like 5 years, and still, no one really cares, except perhaps the programmers, which really, are the only people that *should* care, IMO.

And why is it called the Sun Java Desktop System? Why isn't Star Office written in Java? Gnome sure isn't, either.

edit: And yes, I realize, that I was, typing run on sentences, with too many commas, don't worry about it, I know.

 

[Doomer]

Stupid people, because of their shear numbers, determine the direction all of us will go.

 

[yruffostsif]

Originally posted by: Doomer
Stupid people, because of their shear numbers, determine the direction all of us will go.

That's the funniest thing I've seen all day! Nice one!

 

[drag]

Java seems fine to me. It's not as quick as C, but it's not realy that slow. Maybe people have some bad experiances from web applets that run like turds on a fast machine, but this realy isn't indicative of what happens with a regular app that runs on compiled java.... but hell if I know....


The point of Mad Hatter isn't just the fact that's it's Gnome or Java or whatever. The big deal would be about managment. Think of a situation that instead of you just dealing with 5-15 computers, think about what if your personally responsable with 200-3000 computers used by different people. Situations like that is what Sun works on making easier.

You could, 1 learn everything about Unix and Linux. become a Guru and create a custom enviroment for your workers... Or learn how to become expert at using tools that Sun would provide you and get the same amount of work done in a third of the time, Or learn both, get a entire corporate building up and relatively bug free in less then a week from a complete turnover from running MS-only productrs and get a bonus, promotion and a nice paid vacation.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: yruffostsif

Originally posted by: Doomer
Stupid people, because of their shear numbers, determine the direction all of us will go.

That's the funniest thing I've seen all day! Nice one!

Did it "cut" you up?

 

[civad]

The way I look at it:

Sun is a respected, pretty well-known company/brand name.They are known for their servers.
They gave Java programming language to the world. I am not sure if it has lived upto its expectations. (correct me if I am wrong!!) They tried to sell StarOffice as an alternative to M$ Office. Frankly speaking, I havent come across any information that tells how successful it has been.

Now they are trying to sell a Linux-based desktop. Judging by their track record, the chances of this mission being successful are slim.

HOWEVER, they have one thing to their advantage now: Very few know Java or Staroffice., but a lot more people KNOW Linux.
Esp. the non-IT upper management types. (i.e. the decision makers/ ones with the $$)
Linux has made its mark in the server market. Despite all the talk about "Linux not yet ready for the desktop" there are three factors that will make people look at Linux as the desktop alternative.
1. M$' licencing practises and high price for their OS and software.
2. The recent spate of security vulnerabilities and viruses/worms that seem to affect only M$ OS's and applications
3. ( I hate it when the mainstream press says so!) Linux is Free. They seem to promote the idea that Linux costs zilch. Whatever the case may be, a 'Mad Hatter' would definitely cost less than WinXP over a 3 year period, esp. since you are getting a hosts of applications also, not just the OS.

Having said that, there are some thing Sun needs to do in order to ensure the success of Mad Hatter.

a. Standardization of components. By this I mean both hardware and software. Tie up with Computer makers and OEMs. Imagine a Gateway or a Dell powered by an OS backed by none other than Sun. Or Sun tying up with say ATI or NVidia for making hteir products MH- Friendly.
b. They should use their existing image as a servcer maker to their advantage. Esp. in their commercials and product information. "Leading server maker brings to you a stable, reliable desktop OS" blah blah....


----> I havent read much information about MH myself, but I think I will take a look at it this weekend. Maybe I will have to edit/ delete my entire post by then.

p.s: finally posted something in the OS forum that matches with the size of posts by drag

Edit: before someone mentions it, let me add that I have left out Mac OS's out of my discussion for a reason.

 

[manly]

I'm going off topic but I was worried to see Bill Joy leave Sun. :frown:

Most analysts think Sun is going to go the way of SGI, but they are significantly stronger in a number of important market segments compared to SGI in its heyday. SGI was an excellent technology innovator though.

I haven't been following, but Sun probably gets a D- in its Linux strategy.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: manly
I'm going off topic but I was worried to see Bill Joy leave Sun. :frown:

Worried for Sun, definitely. As the articles mentioned, Bill Joy was a big part of every thing that's done well for Sun; Java, Sparcs, Solaris, and other things I don't remember... And hell, he only created BSD and vi. Would be crazy to work with the guy. I heard that way back, they used to jokingly call BSD "Bill's Software Distribution."

Most analysts think Sun is going to go the way of SGI,

That's a perfect way to describe how it seems Sun is headed. If anything though, I might compare them to Apple. They have their fanatics, and for a big enough percentage of people, they are "the" thing to use, even if they're a little pricey. Big enough to keep them afloat, I mean. .. Sorta like Apple.

I haven't been following, but Sun probably gets a D- in its Linux strategy.

Well, the fact that they want to keep Solaris is probably a good indicator of how they feel about Linux. Sun seems like a very stubborn company, and I think at this point they want to have the attitude of "Linux is ok... for the wimpy stuff. Solaris is for the Real Men's computers." Similar attitude they have / have had towards x86 I suppose.

 

[drag]

I don't. I for one hope that Sun does well. They are a unique company and they are basicly incharge of Java's future. You don't want C# to win do you?


Anyways. As far as Sun's survivability. I don't think they are going anywere.

Software is now a commondity. In fact the only big company that makes a living from selling ONLY software is Microsoft. Sun doesn't realy sell OSes, any more then Apple, or IBM, or Redhat, or Dell does.

They sell hardware AND services/expertese. Sun's job is to create servers and other high-end . Solaris runs the servers, but what difference does that make to Sun? They could be runnning on Linux for all the difference it would make. The main hurdle is of course marketing. What difference it is there between buying Dell computers and running Linux on it, and buying Sun servers and running linux on it? Not much if the performance is equal, exept that when Sun is willing to do things that Dell is not capable of. Like good customer service and creating a entire network of devices for customers to impliment in a cost saving fasion.

The future is service and/or hardware oriented. Redhat and SuSE are service oriented. Dell is hardware oriented. Companies like Apple, IBM, and Sun are hardware AND service oriented. I don't think that Sun has ever made a whole lot of money off of selling OSes alone.

Solaris vs Linux. Can a close sourced, highly focussed Unix OS designed specificly for one purpose compete against a Open Source OSes that is designed to be a one size fits all? I think so. And even if it can't. Then noboby is going to be building high-end unix servers out of thin air in there basements like you can with software, so Sun will have at least a reason to exist.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: drag
I don't. I for one hope that Sun does well. They are a unique company and they are basicly incharge of Java's future.

It makes more sense to me to dislike Java even more because it is controlled by Sun, than to support Sun in hopes of keeping Java going.

You don't want C# to win do you?

No, I want Python to win.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: drag
I don't. I for one hope that Sun does well. They are a unique company and they are basicly incharge of Java's future.

It makes more sense to me to dislike Java even more because it is controlled by Sun, than to support Sun in hopes of keeping Java going.

You don't want C# to win do you?

No, I want Python to win.

Well to each their own. I like Python, too. Remember: WHITESPACE ROCKS!

Anyways nobody can ever be to sure of how these things pan out. Who da thought ten-fifteen years ago that Perl, whose syntax is so abhorant that it makes awk look sexy, would become the dominate scripting language for that internet?

 

[Priit]

There's more about Mad Hatter at Ace's Hardware.

PS: I don't like java, too

 

[GreenGhost]

The chances of limited success are good, but I can't imagine as a threat to MS yet. For corporations with thousands of computers, the savings may be substantial. However, the resistance to a change of this magnitude will be amazing, and I don't see companies switching overnight. From what I've seen, people fight new software. While everyone is happy with the new version of the old stuff, making people adopt new software is not easy or cheap. Imagine taking MS Word away from 3000 computer illiterate employees... A mess and thousands of dollars in training, etc...

 

[Cogman]

OH NO! Microsoft is going to be overthrown by a OS that does not Support GNU or MS Programms and still has the nerve to cost money. Here is why It will not succeed.

1. Java is slow, and Im assuming that all programs will have to be written in Java...
2. Linux is free. Linux is not only free, but it supports billions of desktops and programs while 99.9999% of which are FREE. Linux itself is free to download.
3. It costs Money. Why On earth would you spend $50 to get an OS that is incompadible with the majority of software out there, and the only software currently avalible for it is from said company. I can get linux for free, wine or winex for free, and run a good amount of windows programs AND linux programs for free.

Doomed to fail.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: Cogman
OH NO! Microsoft is going to be overthrown by a OS that does not Support GNU or MS Programms and still has the nerve to cost money. Here is why It will not succeed.

1. Java is slow, and Im assuming that all programs will have to be written in Java...

No, it's using Gnome for the desktop (C), and Star Office for the office suite (C++ afaik). Most of the other apps will inevitably be typical "Linux" apps, i.e. free software that runs on Linux, BSD, Solaris, and other Unixes.

2. Linux is free. Linux is not only free, but it supports billions of desktops and programs while 99.9999% of which are FREE. Linux itself is free to download.

Support isn't free, and companies want it. The same free software that runs on any other Linux distro will be on, or run on, Mad Hatter too.

3. It costs Money. Why On earth would you spend $50 to get an OS that is incompadible with the majority of software out there, and the only software currently avalible for it is from said company. I can get linux for free, wine or winex for free, and run a good amount of windows programs AND linux programs for free.

$50 for OS + office + apps is much cheaper than MS, and comes with support (unlike free Linux downloads). Where do you get the idea that Sun's Linux distro will be incompatible with other software? Wine will also run on it.

Doomed to fail.

Probably , but at least come up with some good arguments for why