thinking about getting into photography

Journer

Banned
Jun 30, 2005
4,355
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0
so ive been thinking about getting into photography for a while now and now that my camera is ****** beyond all belief CC is supposedly going to replace it or give me $$ for a new one. i've been cruising around dpreviews and check a lot of that stuff out but i dont really know anything about photography, digital or no. so, i was thinking about taking a photography course as an elective but it requires some ART prereqs and there is NO way in hell i'm going to take friggin painting courses. that said, can anyone reccomend some good sites or books to get me started on the basics of photography and digital photography?

oh, i suppose you might need to know what i like to take pics of: cityscape, nature, mostly random ******.

our school's media dept. has some nice ass cameras i can rent for free and try out before i buy something so maybe someone could tell me what i need.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
26,108
5
81
There are a few simple topics you should learn thorougly:

1. Aperature (F-stop, whatever you want to call it)
2. Shutter Speeds
3. Rule of thirds

Those are the first 3 that came to my mind, the relationship between the first 2 is very important and really the biggest user interaction based difference between P+S and SLR cameras.
 

czech09

Diamond Member
Nov 13, 2004
8,990
0
76
www.fredmiranda.com is a great forum for information.

If you're a beginner start with some cheaper P&S and move your way up to a DSLR eventually (I strongly suggest not jumping and buying a DSLR right away as your first camera as you may find that photography is not your thing later on who knows). If you're passionate about photography and good you can take great pictures with almost any camera. Good luck and photography is a great hobby .

 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
21
81
Two pieces of advice:

1) F/8 and be there.
2) Your first 10,000 photos are your worst

More seriously, it's not ever the camera that makes a shot, the camera's just a tool. I am a shining example of how a good camera in the hands of a schmuck (i.e. me) will not make the photos good. Get a basic DSLR (whichever brand feels best in your hands) and just take a bunch of photos.

ZV
 

Sukhoi

Elite Member
Dec 5, 1999
15,332
95
91
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.
 

aphex

Moderator<br>All Things Apple
Moderator
Jul 19, 2001
38,572
2
91
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.

I disagree, I say jump in head first and go with a DSLR. A higher end P&S will soon rear its limitations for someone wanting more.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
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Originally posted by: aphex
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.

I disagree, I say jump in head first and go with a DSLR. A higher end P&S will soon rear its limitations for someone wanting more.

Money. Jump into SLR if you have a lot of money, like over $2000. This is for a body, 2 quality lenses, a real tripod, a quality ballhead, camera case, memory cards, remote shutter release cable, and card reader. Tack on hundreds more for image editing software like Photoshop CS2 or a dedicated RAW editor.

Books that are good:

Understanding Exposure (although some of his analogies are strange and could be better)

How Digital Photography Works Really focuses on the physical "how?" questions on how a camera works and how light works. Nicely explains things in layman's terms.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Originally posted by: aphex
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.

I disagree, I say jump in head first and go with a DSLR. A higher end P&S will soon rear its limitations for someone wanting more.

Money. Jump into SLR if you have a lot of money, like over $2000. This is for a body, 2 quality lenses, a real tripod, a quality ballhead, camera case, memory cards, remote shutter release cable, and card reader. Tack on hundreds more for image editing software like Photoshop CS2 or a dedicated RAW editor.

Books that are good:

Understanding Exposure (although some of his analogies are strange and could be better)

How Digital Photography Works Really focuses on the physical "how?" questions on how a camera works and how light works. Nicely explains things in layman's terms.

i have to disagree with the dollar amount. you dont need 2000 to get into photography, even at a "beginner-advanced" level. you could easily start out with an XTi and a good medium range lens, say 28-75, and learn very well the art of photography. that would be under 1000 and it would take a while to be limited by that setup. i think telling someone that they should only get an SLR if they have $2000+ is bad advice.
 

Journer

Banned
Jun 30, 2005
4,355
0
0
thanks for the help guys...ive got a powershot sd450 that is broken...should i just get them to replace it with another SD450 or get something else?

fuzzy: your pics rock. also, do those books give info on the SUPER basics of taking pics. like...lets say all i know how to do is zoom in and out and click the button...which is about all i know, lol...
 

Sukhoi

Elite Member
Dec 5, 1999
15,332
95
91
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Originally posted by: aphex
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.

I disagree, I say jump in head first and go with a DSLR. A higher end P&S will soon rear its limitations for someone wanting more.

Money. Jump into SLR if you have a lot of money, like over $2000. This is for a body, 2 quality lenses, a real tripod, a quality ballhead, camera case, memory cards, remote shutter release cable, and card reader. Tack on hundreds more for image editing software like Photoshop CS2 or a dedicated RAW editor.

Books that are good:

Understanding Exposure (although some of his analogies are strange and could be better)

How Digital Photography Works Really focuses on the physical "how?" questions on how a camera works and how light works. Nicely explains things in layman's terms.

Yeah it all depends on the budget. $500? Get a good P&S. $1000 get a basic DLSR setup. $2000 get a good DSLR setup.

Journer I don't understand what you mean. If it's under warranty why wouldn't you get it fixed for free? But yes that camera will be very limiting for learning real photography.
 

Journer

Banned
Jun 30, 2005
4,355
0
0
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Originally posted by: aphex
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.

I disagree, I say jump in head first and go with a DSLR. A higher end P&S will soon rear its limitations for someone wanting more.

Money. Jump into SLR if you have a lot of money, like over $2000. This is for a body, 2 quality lenses, a real tripod, a quality ballhead, camera case, memory cards, remote shutter release cable, and card reader. Tack on hundreds more for image editing software like Photoshop CS2 or a dedicated RAW editor.

Books that are good:

Understanding Exposure (although some of his analogies are strange and could be better)

How Digital Photography Works Really focuses on the physical "how?" questions on how a camera works and how light works. Nicely explains things in layman's terms.

Yeah it all depends on the budget. $500? Get a good P&S. $1000 get a basic DLSR setup. $2000 get a good DSLR setup.

Journer I don't understand what you mean. If it's under warranty why wouldn't you get it fixed for free? But yes that camera will be very limiting for learning real photography.

what i'm saying is they will replace it yes, but i can probably get them to give me the value of the camera and apply said money to a different cam
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Originally posted by: aphex
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.

I disagree, I say jump in head first and go with a DSLR. A higher end P&S will soon rear its limitations for someone wanting more.

Money. Jump into SLR if you have a lot of money, like over $2000. This is for a body, 2 quality lenses, a real tripod, a quality ballhead, camera case, memory cards, remote shutter release cable, and card reader. Tack on hundreds more for image editing software like Photoshop CS2 or a dedicated RAW editor.

Books that are good:

Understanding Exposure (although some of his analogies are strange and could be better)

How Digital Photography Works Really focuses on the physical "how?" questions on how a camera works and how light works. Nicely explains things in layman's terms.

i have to disagree with the dollar amount. you dont need 2000 to get into photography, even at a "beginner-advanced" level. you could easily start out with an XTi and a good medium range lens, say 28-75, and learn very well the art of photography. that would be under 1000 and it would take a while to be limited by that setup. i think telling someone that they should only get an SLR if they have $2000+ is bad advice.

I'm just giving a comparable setup to a prosumer superzoom P&S.

If you get a prosumer superzoom P&S, you're going to need two or three SLR lenses to cover the same zoom range. Plus superzooms usually have built-in macro abilities, something you'd need to spend more money on to get in an SLR.

Basically if he went with a DSLR + one walkaround lens right now, he wouldn't be able to take a lot of the pictures that a superzoom prosumer could take just because of the limited focal range.

Could you learn photography with just an SLR and 28-75mm lens? Sure. But then you couldnt' take pictures of wildlife. Or macros. Or ultrawides (note P&S camera can't do ultrawides either).

Could you take the same pictures as a prosumer with an equivalent 35-350mm lens? Nope. The P&S will have more flexibility for the price right from the get-go compared to an SLR with only one lens. But once you add more lenses onto that SLR...

So the question is whether or not you're ok with starting out small with an SLR and a single lens, and incur the penalty of having a limited zoom range compared to a superzoom P&S. I personally started with a superzoom P&S, which allowed me to hone skills such as framing, composition, perspective, and technique, all of which I feel are far more important than understanding shutter speed and aperture. You can be very competent in the internal workings of a camera but if you don't train your artistic "eye" you're screwed. In addition it also allowed me to take a lot of the kinds of shots that I was interested in, such as telephotos of animals and wildlife, macros of insects and flowers, your standard walk-around stuff, and wides with panorama software. Once I went to a DSLR I immediately felt constrained by having only one lens, and had to sink down a considerable investment for lenses that would cover the equivalent range of my P&S, because I had grown so accustomed to my P&S's range.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
Originally posted by: Journer
thanks for the help guys...ive got a powershot sd450 that is broken...should i just get them to replace it with another SD450 or get something else?

fuzzy: your pics rock. also, do those books give info on the SUPER basics of taking pics. like...lets say all i know how to do is zoom in and out and click the button...which is about all i know, lol...

Thanks!

Understanding Exposure is the book that gives info on the basics.
 

Sukhoi

Elite Member
Dec 5, 1999
15,332
95
91
Originally posted by: Journer
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Originally posted by: aphex
Originally posted by: Sukhoi
IMHO get a higher end P&S to start with, not a DSLR. Something like a Canon A710.

I disagree, I say jump in head first and go with a DSLR. A higher end P&S will soon rear its limitations for someone wanting more.

Money. Jump into SLR if you have a lot of money, like over $2000. This is for a body, 2 quality lenses, a real tripod, a quality ballhead, camera case, memory cards, remote shutter release cable, and card reader. Tack on hundreds more for image editing software like Photoshop CS2 or a dedicated RAW editor.

Books that are good:

Understanding Exposure (although some of his analogies are strange and could be better)

How Digital Photography Works Really focuses on the physical "how?" questions on how a camera works and how light works. Nicely explains things in layman's terms.

Yeah it all depends on the budget. $500? Get a good P&S. $1000 get a basic DLSR setup. $2000 get a good DSLR setup.

Journer I don't understand what you mean. If it's under warranty why wouldn't you get it fixed for free? But yes that camera will be very limiting for learning real photography.

what i'm saying is they will replace it yes, but i can probably get them to give me the value of the camera and apply said money to a different cam

If you don't have the budget/want to go full DSLR, IMHO get a Canon A710 IS. As fuzzy says you can learn the basics on it (and it has full manual mode), and then later upgrade to DSLR if you like photography. You'll still have the A710 to carry around for events where a DSLR is too bulky. The A710 actually has a $25 adapter piece which will allow you to use filters and a couple wide and zoom lenses if you desire.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
0
0
For someone just starting out, I think a prosumer P&S (Sony R1, Canon G7, anything similar) is a great tool. While they do have their limitations, there's no guarantee that the owner will care to move beyond the limitations to find a DSLR, and the cost difference is considerable given the capabilities of the prosumer zooms (in order to equal it with a DSLR setup -- macro, somewhat wideangle, long zoom).

If you can find a used Sony F-717, that's what I learned on, and it really is a fine camera. While it's only 5MP, you can get some excellent shots from it, and there's a lot of control over aperture, shutter speed, bracketing, etc. Or, the Canon G6, I believe, is the last Canon prosumer to have RAW mode which I know they dropped from their latest one. Once you learn the basics with the prosumer camera, you can decide whether or not you want to make the jump to DSLR and the financial hit that comes with it.

I can understand where Fuzzy is coming from with the recommendations for DSLR, but I tend to favor a more cautious approach, especially since the OP doesn't sound like he has a great deal of expendable cash for this purchase. A big problem with moving to DSLR is the onset of lens lust, which is an extremely expensive condition and has no cure.
 

virtuamike

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2000
7,845
13
81
Photography can get expensive fast

Ultimately lenses are just compositional tools, which is where art and drawing classes come in. All that art stuff actually does serve a purpose.

As far as exposure goes, there are plenty of good technical books (the Peterson series is a good start). In addition to figuring out how to capture light, it helps to have an idea of what you're capturing. That's why lighting knowledge is so important.

Light - Science & Magic

On a $500 budget, I recommend getting a used DSLR (Nikon D50/70, Canon 350D/10D)and a basic kit lens (Nikon 18-55 or 18-70, Canon 18-55, etc). I wouldn't go with a P&S because you'll learn better with an optical viewfinder that can accurately show tones and DOF. You'll also appreciate the responsiveness. If you really can't afford/find a used DSLR, then go film and pick up a Nikon F3/Canon AE-1/Pentax K1000 and a 50mm lens.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
35
91
I guess your options can be summarized somewhat like this:

1. $2000+ for a modern DSLR with 2-3 quality lenses and other miscellaneous gear

Pros: Gets you great performance and image quality, instant satisfaction
Cons: Expensive expensive expensive, and even more so if you decide photography isn't for you, bulky, will lead to spending even more money

2. $1000 for a modern DSLR and a single lens

Pros: Cheaper than above
Cons: The types of pictures you can take will be limited by your single lens. If you value variety at all, this is really just a postponement of #1 above, as you'll eventually be spending more money for more lenses, better lenses, and gear anyway.

3. $500 or less for a prosumer super-zoom

Pros: Cheaper than above, more shooting options than a single lens SLR, can easily hone skills like framing and composition, more portable than SLR, usually includes image stabilization, can record movies
Cons: Image quality might not be as good as an SLR, slower to focus and shoot, less responsive, depth of field is unpronounced, no RAW, much worse high ISO performance, no optical viewfinder

4. $100 for a film SLR and a lens

Pros: Cheap
Cons: Kinda like learning how to swim by being thrown into the deep end and being forced to adapt quickly. Learning curve is harsh because there's no instant feedback on how you're shooting (have to buy film, shoot film, wait for developing, find out your pictures stink and you've just sunk $8 on a "learning experience" that you'll probably repeat again and again). Photos you take will have to be scanned in order to be editable on the computer or shared online, and scanning will decrease image quality unless you have a professional film scanner. In the end, you will have spent $100 + film costs for a harsh learning experience when you could have just spent $300+ for a prosumer digital camera. I do not recommend film for a first learner in our modern age, but I have no problem with people who already understand photography going back to film who want to experience the good ol' days again.

NOTE: do not discount used cameras, lenses, and gear. Going used or going with a previous generation (or both) can save you a very hefty amount of cash. You can certainly get a good used bare bones previous generation DSLR setup for $1000, but this will again just be a postponement for #1 above. The downside is if you decide you want to upgrade, in which case you'll be spending money for the current generation anyway.

ex. Used Rebel XT + kit lens + 50mm f/1.8 + another lens for ~$1000. Note this does not include accessories.

If you go with an SLR, also do not ignore miscellaneous costs. SLRs need to use quicker and more numerous flash memory for their faster shooting speeds and larger files. SLRs need beefier and more expensive tripods than prosumers because they are heavier. SLRs need beefier and more expensive tripod heads, such as ballheads, than prosumers because of the weight. Then there're things like a remote shutter release cord, rubber blower to clean the sensor, large camera bag and lens cases, and additional things you might want to eventually get, like a monopod, a hand strap, a better neck strap, a battery grip, a portable hard drive for backing up photos, a monitor calibration device, software, OMG.

With a prosumer, you can easily get away with a cheapo $20 tripod+head, a small camera bag, a remote shutter cord, a standard slowish but cheap flash card, and you're kinda good to go.
 

SOONER

Senior member
Apr 8, 2000
323
0
71
With a little price searching you can easily get a Nikon d-50 DSLR camera with a 18-55 kit lens for $500. This is a VERY nice beginner dslr. You can add lenses later as you develop into the hobby. I just did this same thing and am very pleased. Go to dpreview.com to read up on this and other cameras.
 
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