Thinking about picking up a used Subaru BRZ

[Paratus]

My son will be driving soon and will be getting my 8 year old Malibu. I’d like to get something:

• A bit sporty
• Something we can teach our kids to drive stick on
• Something I can hand off to my daughter when she starts driving in 3 years.

So I was thinking a used BRZ, (2013-2015, below 60,000 miles, around or below $18K), fits the bill. Manual, handles well, not enough power to really get into trouble and not super expensive.

Anyone have anything good or bad to say about the BRZ?

Edit: this will be a third car, our other are the Malibu and a Suburban for hauling the family and escaping hurricanes

 

[EXCellR8]

I have the FR-S variant, a 2013, 6MT, and I love it. It's obviously a great-handling car and very reliable. I bought the OFT too so I could eliminate the torque dip and it worked phenomenally. Also, the car is very comfortable to drive and the ride is rather forgiving for a lower vehicle. The power output leaves much to be desired but like you said it would be easier to get into trouble.

Mine has only 14k on the clock but I don't drive it during the winter months because I live in New England. Working on it is also pretty easy and there's plenty of support online for DIY and amateur mechanics. I've installed a few aftermarket bits to help her breathe a bit better but the car is pretty responsive from the factory and, if you can make good shifts, you can still get up to speed relatively quick.

Overall it's a good car, just use 91 oct minimum and make sure to do regular oil changes with Subaru-recommended weight and it will last awhile.

 

[repoman0]

I always think they look nice when I see them. Never been in one or driven one however.

Another option that seems to fit your requirements ... newish similar model year range Miata. I've heard it's always the answer. Only seats two though, which may or may not be a feature rather than a bug.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Can you really say the BRZ has a usable backseat anyway?
https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/05/living-with-the-2013-subaru-brzs-small-backseat/

 

[XavierMace]

I'd try to avoid a 2013. A lot of people had issues with the first year runs, myself included. It's possible they got those issues sorted out, but they had issues where they would go into limp mode for no apparent reason. You could pull the battery and it would be fine after that, but who wants to be unplugging their battery all the time? Mine was eventually bought back by Subaru because after 5 months at the dealer, they couldn't figure it out. If you do get one, I'd recommend getting one with the "Limited" trim package. The interior was surprisingly nice for a car of that price range.

 

[Paratus]

I have the FR-S variant, a 2013, 6MT, and I love it. It's obviously a great-handling car and very reliable. I bought the OFT too so I could eliminate the torque dip and it worked phenomenally. Also, the car is very comfortable to drive and the ride is rather forgiving for a lower vehicle. The power output leaves much to be desired but like you said it would be easier to get into trouble.

Mine has only 14k on the clock but I don't drive it during the winter months because I live in New England. Working on it is also pretty easy and there's plenty of support online for DIY and amateur mechanics. I've installed a few aftermarket bits to help her breathe a bit better but the car is pretty responsive from the factory and, if you can make good shifts, you can still get up to speed relatively quick.

Overall it's a good car, just use 91 oct minimum and make sure to do regular oil changes with Subaru-recommended weight and it will last awhile.

Good to know. Is the 91 octane required or recommended for power? I remember Subaru’s with turbos requiring 91 or better due to the higher compression but there’s no turbo here.

Lucky for me there’s no snow problems here. If it snows at all they shutdown roads, businesses and schools.

I always think they look nice when I see them. Never been in one or driven one however.

Another option that seems to fit your requirements ... newish similar model year range Miata. I've heard it's always the answer. Only seats two though, which may or may not be a feature rather than a bug.

Miata is always the answer? .

The lack of a backseat would be a problem. Mostly because I drop my 7 year old off at school in the morning.

Can you really say the BRZ has a usable backseat anyway?
https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/05/living-with-the-2013-subaru-brzs-small-backseat/

The BRZ has a backseat that can fit a booster and a child for a 5 minute ride to school. For later when my older kids are driving it, it would reduce the number of other kids in the car or the lengths of trips in the car with other kids.

I'd try to avoid a 2013. A lot of people had issues with the first year runs, myself included. It's possible they got those issues sorted out, but they had issues where they would go into limp mode for no apparent reason. You could pull the battery and it would be fine after that, but who wants to be unplugging their battery all the time? Mine was eventually bought back by Subaru because after 5 months at the dealer, they couldn't figure it out. If you do get one, I'd recommend getting one with the "Limited" trim package. The interior was surprisingly nice for a car of that price range.

Test drove a 2015 limited yesterday. The interior was pretty nice. Good to know about the 2013. I’d prefer a 2014 or 2015. My hope is any car that’s got 40K+ miles on it doesn’t have that issue.

 

[EXCellR8]

Good to know. Is the 91 octane required or recommended for power? I remember Subaru’s with turbos requiring 91 or better due to the higher compression but there’s no turbo here.

91 is required because of the compression ratio, not the engine aspiration. the FA20, being only 2 liters, puts out more power than my 2.5L boxer in the impreza because of the higher compression ratio. I've always used 93 since that's what is available here, but 91 is fine. i've not an issue with the battery but it was replaced at the 5 year mark (the car being built in 2012) at the end of the winter after storage. pretty normal.

around here it's not the snow and slush that rots the cars, it's the excessive amount of road salt and melting agent that gets dumped all over the roads.

 

[Zivic]

I like the look and what the car is about... but I think 18k is too much for what it is.

is it fun, sure
does it look decent... yes

I just look at what a person could buy for 15-18k and a BRZ/FRS doesn't look like a good bang for the buck car.

easily buy a nice 350z... a decent s2000. if you looked hard enough, an OK lancer evo, maybe an OK subie STI... all of which, maybe besides the Z-car would be more fun.

heck, if you stretched to maybe 20k I bet you could find a 2006+ M5

18K buys a killer miata

I know I am all over the board, but at upper teens for a budget, I can probably think of 10-12 cars Id rather buy.... at 10-12k, I'd probably think differently, but even then, it wouldn't top my list

 

[EXCellR8]

i don't think a Z or S2K (while great cars in their own right) is a better buy than a newer ZN6/ZC6 platform sports coupe... and used boosted Subarus and Lancers are almost always a gamble, trust me; get far less mileage too. I'd rather scoop a low miles 2014+ WRX STI than go shopping for an unmolested "Stage 2 everything" 07+ WRX any day. also, a BMW is NOT what I would call a good bang for buck choice, especially if it's over ten years old... that's got bad news written all over it.

OP wants to decide what he wants to drive, not something to work on every weekend.

 

[Zivic]

i don't think a Z or S2K (while great cars in their own right) is a better buy than a newer ZN6/ZC6 platform sports coupe... and used boosted Subarus and Lancers are almost always a gamble, trust me; get far less mileage too. I'd rather scoop a low miles 2014+ WRX STI than go shopping for an unmolested "Stage 2 everything" 07+ WRX any day. also, a BMW is NOT what I would call a good bang for buck choice, especially if it's over ten years old... that's got bad news written all over it.

OP wants to decide what he wants to drive, not something to work on every weekend.

I was just point out a few cars I think are better in my opinion.

Is a z better? Maybe, maybe not, but you could find a decent one for under 10k (pocket 7-10k sounds good to me) That's good value and pretty darn reliable

Is an s2k better? Everyday of the week. Engine is special, trans is up there amongst the best I have driven, top goes down, faster than the brz ... But maybe not a best daily, but this isn't the only car in the stable

All cars have their pros and cons. All used cars are a gamble to some degree. Everyone finds value in their own way. I'm not saying a brz isn't cool... I'd like to own one.

Simply saying at 16-18k, it's pretty low on the list.

 

[EXCellR8]

S2K isn't a "better" car than the 86... just because it's faster. Plus, OP stated clearly that he'd rather have something more conservative because it will be passed down later on. I'm not putting down the Honda because I've owned one, and yes the F20C and the later F22C1 are absolutely a couple of the best inline four engines ever produced by anyone. Couple that with unbeatable Honda reliability and you have a terrific car, but I will say that the BRZ/GT86 handles much better because it has a lower center of gravity and less body roll.

In layman's terms, the S2000 is faster in a straight line but the Subaru is a more comfortable ride and is cheaper to insure too. How do I know, because I've owned both. The only reason I sold my S2000 was because someone made an exceptional offer and considering it was seasonal, the time was right. I did lose sleep the following few nights tho, she was a black AP1 and I loved her.

 

[Zivic]

S2K isn't a "better" car than the 86... just because it's faster. Plus, OP stated clearly that he'd rather have something more conservative because it will be passed down later on. I'm not putting down the Honda because I've owned one, and yes the F20C and the later F22C1 are absolutely a couple of the best inline four engines ever produced by anyone. Couple that with unbeatable Honda reliability and you have a terrific car, but I will say that the BRZ/GT86 handles much better because it has a lower center of gravity and less body roll.

In layman's terms, the S2000 is faster in a straight line but the Subaru is a more comfortable ride and is cheaper to insure too. How do I know, because I've owned both. The only reason I sold my S2000 was because someone made an exceptional offer and considering it was seasonal, the time was right. I did lose sleep the following few nights tho, she was a black AP1 and I loved her.

"Engine is special, trans is up there amongst the best I have driven, top goes down, faster than the brz ."

being faster is only one factor.... and considering the S2000 came out in 2000, does that speak highly of the honda or poorly of the BRZ? I know hp and straightline speed don't tell the whole story, but #1 thing complained about with the BRZ in every single review I have ever read/watched.... under powered. owners are begging for more power. I am not saying it has to be hp dominant, but I think an extra 20-30 whp, would change that car a lot. that said, an extra 100, might wreck it, making it unbalanced.

You think putting the two cars side by side, driving them back to back, you come back saying the BRZ is the one you prefer to drive?

I always though the S2k was a bit of a laugh, not much of substance. ... but that's only till you drive one.

the s2000 can be had for that 18k dollar budget. Keep it in nice shape, and not only will it reward you as a driver/owner, it will still be worth that 18k dollars (likely more) yrs down the road, if you chose to sell it.

think you will lose sleep if/when you sell your BRZ/FRS?

again, not saying the BRZ is a bad car at all. I am just sat at 17-18k dollars, it isn't even on my radar. further, the S2k is just one car I would buy before the brz. Many others are on that list as well.

 

[tcG]

I agree with Zivic. I only buy cars 10+ years old after patiently searching classifieds for a nice example, I find a hard time justifying the premium for something newer.

Also I've driven an S2000 and an FR-S extensively and the S2000 is obviously a different class of sports car.

 

[EXCellR8]

"Engine is special, trans is up there amongst the best I have driven, top goes down, faster than the brz ."

being faster is only one factor.... and considering the S2000 came out in 2000

actually, the S2000 hit the streets of Japan in the late 90's but only started to sell on the USDM around '00... the actual car was designed closer to 1997.

but #1 thing complained about with the BRZ in every single review I have ever read/watched.... under powered. owners are begging for more power.

yup, you and everyone online since 2012. 300hp is easily achievable on the FA20 with a simple bolt-on turbo kit and tune, tons to choose from--should one decide to the option is there in droves.

You think putting the two cars side by side, driving them back to back, you come back saying the BRZ is the one you prefer to drive?

i didn't say that, I said the BRZ is the better handling car, because it is. the s2000 (specifically the AP1) was prone to a bit of oversteer and that basically isn't a problem on the 86 platform

think you will lose sleep if/when you sell your BRZ/FRS?

probably, I take good care of my vehicles and I usually hate seeing them go

 

[Zivic]

actually, the S2000 hit the streets of Japan in the late 90's but only started to sell on the USDM around '00... the actual car was designed closer to 1997.



yup, you and everyone online since 2012. 300hp is easily achievable on the FA20 with a simple bolt-on turbo kit and tune, tons to choose from--should one decide to the option is there in droves.



i didn't say that, I said the BRZ is the better handling car, because it is. the s2000 (specifically the AP1) was prone to a bit of oversteer and that basically isn't a problem on the 86 platform



probably, I take good care of my vehicles and I usually hate seeing them go

Now yow open up the discussion to a conversation to forced induction to handle the power issue?

Nothing really simple about a forced induction conversion on a n/a car. If we are going there I would say buy the s2k and play around with a set of sways/springs/coils ... That's seems easier than an adding boost. Boost dramatically changes everything... Balance, reliability, power delivery...

I'm not apposed to the brz or boosting one. My neighbor just down the street has a first yr brz, with a turbo setup making low 300s at the wheels. Its abd awesome car and it's been decently reliable, but you are talking fueling, tune, exhaust, clutch upgrade...

 

[XavierMace]

Now yow open up the discussion to a conversation to forced induction to handle the power issue?

Nothing really simple about a forced induction conversion on a n/a car. If we are going there I would say buy the s2k and play around with a set of sways/springs/coils ... That's seems easier than an adding boost. Boost dramatically changes everything... Balance, reliability, power delivery...

I'm not apposed to the brz or boosting one. My neighbor just down the street has a first yr brz, with a turbo setup making low 300s at the wheels. Its abd awesome car and it's been decently reliable, but you are talking fueling, tune, exhaust, clutch upgrade...

Maybe it's one of those "you have to own one to understand" but I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the appeal of the s2000. It's got a unique instrument cluster, but beyond that, it seems to be a fairly typical late 90's Japanese interior which is not a compliment. I'd take the BRZ's interior over the s2000's in a heartbeat. It's faster than a BRZ in a straight line but not by much depending what year s2000 you're talking about as I'm seeing number from 5.2s-6.4s for the s2000 vs 6.2s-6.8s for the BRZ. After all the cars weigh about the same and you're only talking a 40hp difference. If handling is your primary concern, nobody seems to be disagreeing that the BRZ is the better handling car. If the BRZ is too slow for you (and yes I had that complaint about mine), I'm not seeing the s2000 being a huge improvement in that category, especially considering you're now looking at a car that's a decade older.

 

[Zivic]

Maybe it's one of those "you have to own one to understand" but I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the appeal of the s2000. It's got a unique instrument cluster, but beyond that, it seems to be a fairly typical late 90's Japanese interior which is not a compliment. I'd take the BRZ's interior over the s2000's in a heartbeat. It's faster than a BRZ in a straight line but not by much depending what year s2000 you're talking about as I'm seeing number from 5.2s-6.4s for the s2000 vs 6.2s-6.8s for the BRZ. After all the cars weigh about the same and you're only talking a 40hp difference. If handling is your primary concern, nobody seems to be disagreeing that the BRZ is the better handling car. If the BRZ is too slow for you (and yes I had that complaint about mine), I'm not seeing the s2000 being a huge improvement in that category, especially considering you're now looking at a car that's a decade older.

drive an S2000... you don't know how special the engine is until you drive it. I prefer the AP1 with the higher redline. the AP2 is numbed a bit. when you drive it, drive hard. Redline is special, the Vtec is special.... the trans is really, really good. the car is tight.... top goes down and still feels tight. If you are concentrating on the interior, youre driving a boring car. that said, I have zero issues with the interior of the honda or the BRZ. I have to say the brz interior really seems to follow the same MO as the honda... in keeping it simple. both interiors are fine

when you are talking 200 hp range, 40 hp is A LOT!! 20%!!! and the worst thing is, subie/toyota could have thrown an extra 20-30 hp at it and didn't.

the honda is a modern day classic. it will be a sought after car for yrs to come. the BRZ is a refreshing breath of fresh air in its throw back to a more balanced car, built for the enthusiast to have fun with. it is a really really good car, but it isn't on the same level as the honda in terms of its overall presence or prominance

 

[tcG]

ITT: people who haven't driven - or probably even been a passenger in - an S2000 comparing it to a BRZ.

Although I'm surprised that it's not obvious even from the distance of internet pictures that the S2000 is a special car. Because it is.

 

[Zivic]

Forget even the s2000 now... Been researching an e60 m5...


If I'm patient, meaning if I save money for another yr or two, I could probably get one for 10-12k. I know a second hand v10 BMW is a gamble, but darn it, I have taken worse bets

 

[XavierMace]

ITT: people who haven't driven - or probably even been a passenger in - an S2000 comparing it to a BRZ.

Although I'm surprised that it's not obvious even from the distance of internet pictures that the S2000 is a special car. Because it is.

Perhaps part of the issue is because you can't explain what you feel makes it special? You're surprised it's not obvious from a distance that it's special? I mean, seriously? What should I be seeing? It's a decent looking car to be sure, but it's a 2 door roadster with the engine in the front and skinny tires. That doesn't scream special to me. There's an abundance of front engine roadsters with skinny tires and dual exhaust. Some people also don't want roadsters period.

I owned a BRZ for 2 years as my daily driver. It's handling was fantastic but it definitely needed a bit more power. I was genuinely asking why I'd choose an S2000 because on paper it doesn't seem to offer much over a BRZ. Your answer basically amounts to "because it's an S2000". That's pretty much the reason Apple fanboys give for buying Apple, like that explains everything. @EXCellR8 has stated the BRZ handles better. Neither you nor @Zivic seem to be arguing that but at least @Zivic has provided some examples of why he prefers the S2000. Although personally a high redline and VTEC doesn't exactly scream "BUY ME" personally but apparently the transmission is great.

 

[tweakmonkey]

The engine in the S2000 makes it incredible, and the transmission is also fantastic. It also fits like a glove, and many of its characteristics (engine sound / induction noise, digital dash) just add to the wow factor. That said, its powerband makes it NO fun below 40 MPH. So most driving around here, it's nearly useless. I've owned two AP1s and would gladly own another if I lived in the right spot for it, but for daily driving and many situations it's just not the best car. It's also a 2 seater convertible being compared to a hardtop with some type of back seat. It's more of a sports car and less of a normal car.

Keep on checking other cars and test drive lots of stuff, but it sounds like you're on the right track.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Since it's going to end up as your daughter's car I'd say go for it. Make sure she's on board with it. You should be able to find a good deal on these. Niche vehicle especially with a stick. It's dealer lot kryptonite for 99% of buyers. If you stalk patiently and keep hitting with lowball offers eventually some Ford or Chevy dealer that's had one sitting on the lot for 6 months will just give it to you.

 

[pauldun170]

BRZ vs 350z is like comparing a Miata and a Mustang with 3 friends in it and with undersized rotors.
350z ticks off the spec sheets but between the Nissan build quality and the lead bricks hiding in the car, I can see someone trading extra oomph for better tossability. 350z are pretty old now and finding one that's not a rattle trap with "Nissan quality" might be tough.
In it's defense, It is a fun car and if you are shopping you should consider the type of roads\driving you will be actually doing.

BRZ vs S2000 - S2000 is an awesome car but the early cars are gutless most the rev range and peaky cars. Screw the numbers. The later cars seem overpriced or hacked up most the time. I haven't seen a nice relatively stock example in years. If you are able to find S2000 in good condition at a reasonable price I'd say choose it. Not because it is better, but because it's a car that is slowly disappearing from the world and everyone should experience. BRZ's are still in production so there is always the oppurtunity. That being said, I'd skip the S2000 if its parked on the street. That's a car that screams "Garage me or someone else will". Reminds me of Integra type R ownership.


BRZ vs Miata - Tough call. That hatchback is a huge bonus. In the Miata's favor, your options for Miata are HUGE. You can spend chump change on an older car or you could pony up for a relatively new one (cuz bluetooth damnit!!).

 

[pauldun170]

Just noticed the bit about handing it off to your daughter when she STARTS DRIVING....
BRZ all the way.
Appropriate, approachable power for the street and all the latest and greatest safety and tech. enough practicality to be used as a primary driver. Handling that teaches and rewards at safe speeds.
350z is S2000 are too much car for a noob

 

[Zivic]

. Although personally a high redline and VTEC doesn't exactly scream "BUY ME" personally but apparently the transmission is great.

drive one... go WOT into Vtec from 2nd through 3rd and that engine will scream BUY ME