Thinking about the Logitech Z-680s? Hold your horses...

[Lore]

Information added 1/15/02

As one of the early adopters for this product, I and other end-users noticed a lot of things that the reviewers either didn't notice or didn't have in their test units. I know the Logitech Z-680 is a popular product that a lot of people are looking forwards to, but do be aware of these issues.

The biggest problem is the hissing that comes through the speakers in any input mode, even if there is nothing connected. You can even have it on mute and the speakers will still hiss. You can actually hear the hiss even when you're about 3 feet away (So with the speakers on your desk, you should be able to hear the hissing). This hissing can be heard through music played back at low volume and can overwhelm classical pieces at low volume. Quite annoying. The hissing is unaffected by how high or lwo the volume control is set.

The second problem is the clicks and pops that you get when you're switching modes between the different inputs. Whether you're in digital or analog mode doesn't matter as the decoder tries to figure out what sort of stream you're feeding it and will in turn click and pop as it's switching modes. When you switch modes, you can actually hear the hissing get louder for a second as the decoder gets ready for the new stream.

The clicks and pops are especially bad when you are watching a DVD and the menus keep cycling; the clicks and pops occur everytime the audio stream (whether it's DD5.1 or ProLogic II or simply Stereo) refreshes. So if you're watching a bonus feature DVD and are navigating the menus to get to the deleted scenes (for example) it will click and pop loudly everytime you hit "enter" and navigate one level deeper (or up).

Lastly, the volume control knob is digital and senses your turns; sometimes this is very inaccurate, allowing your speakers to jump up in volume even when you're trying to turn it down. It's never consistent how many notches each turn will bring down the volume. Sometimes you can hear soft clicks and pops as the volume is adjusted.

Exchanging these for another set doesn't matter. The other two people I've talked to are both on the East coast and they have the same problems as me. One guy exchanged his three times at two different stores, I exchanged mine twice (at two different stores), and one other guy is still hanging on to his pending a solution from Logitech.

Here are some threads on two other forums that have a discussion on this. I am a participant in both discussions, but I thought I'd bring this information over to this forum too:
Thread on ExtremeTech forum
Thread on Klipsch forum
Thread on 3D Sound Surge forums
Thread on Neoseeker forums

My sources at Logitech tells me that the hissing is a result of an unshielded part of the control pod. They said that the shielding was removed in order to meet some European certification, which sounds odd because usually you have to shield MORE to receive certifications, not LESS!

Anyway, here's some more good info:
Logitech's Tech Support Doc

This webpage acknowledges the problem but blames it on the user's configuration...

==News 1/15/02==
I've been reading from other forums that there is a control pod replacement out so you can get a pod with revision 1.1 instead of the original 1.3. Supposedly this will reduce hissing dramatically, but this is only in the European market so far. My Logitech source told me this morning that there has not been a definitive strategy for the US market, but they're working on it.

==News 1/2/02==
I just got email from my contact at Logitech. According to him, there will be a fix for the hissing problem soon. He does not have any more details at this time but will share them with me when he has some. Further, the specifications on their website are INCORRECT, the speakers are still a 450 watt RMS unit. He says he's contacted the web team to get that fixed.

If you're waiting to pick these up, I'd suggest you wait a bit so that Logitech can work through these problems before grabbing them!

 

[madthumbs]

Thanks for the info... Really for the money people may as well get a decent Dolby Digital Reciever, and some real speakers. I've seen Packages with Cerwin Vega or JBL's for about the same price and they are much more dynamic in what they can do.

 

[Lore]

Bump for those who may be buying the Z-680s.

 

[SithSolo1]

I knew as soon as you posted this was coming back up near the top. Nice to know someones out there looking out for others.

 

[Lore]

Considering how many owners of Klipsch 5.1s have suffered from the amp blowouts, etc, I don't want to see Logitech owners suffering from the same substandard products that they have to put up with, especially since many people turn to Logitech due to their frustration at Klipsch.

 

[MrDurden]

I have had the Z680's for over a week now and I'm not particularly impressed with them. The problems I see with my set is A.) Less robust bass response compared to the Z560?s (which I also own) and B.) Lower max volume output than the Z560?s.

My conclusion that the Z680?s have less bass power is based on side by side comparison of the two systems with the Z680?s console bass level set at max volume and the Z560?s console bass level set at medium or lower. As for max volume, the Z680?s max out at a much lower volume than the Z560?s (I turned the console volume up to maximum on the Z680?s and they are definitely not as loud as the Z560?s at a little above medium on the console volume). The Z680?s can?t compete in these two areas. I bought the Z680?s to provide improved sound imaging for movie playback, but the system?s failures in volume and bass are too significant for me to keep them. Off to Best Buy?

I can?t make any statement of generality that all Z680 systems have less bass and a lower max volume than their Z560 counterpart, but this is definitely the case with my set of Z680?s. I would be interested in hearing feedback from others as to whether or not they have experienced the same things.

 

[Lore]

MrDurden:

Which mode are you playing the stuff from? I play from: "Input: Direct" and "Effect: 6 Ch Direct". I find it to be plenty loud!

Not having owned the Z-560s I cannot comment on the bass response of the Z-680s, but I can tell you that I've heard they lowered the bass level of the Z-680s (And the recent crop of Z-560s too) because of the overwhelming bass. I find that the bass on the Z-680s are more than sufficient, I keep my bass level at 3 bars from the left. Setting it at the default middle setting is way too much for my neighbors and me.

Have you noticed any of the problems with the hissing and clicks/pops?

 

[Insane3D]

Lore -

I have been following your thread since I was planning on picking up the Z-680's. I am aware of the common hissing problem, but I decided to give them a try. I was either going with the Klipsch or these, and these were cheaper and had more features (decoder), so I ordered a set of them from Newegg. The $350 price point with free shipping seemed like a reasonable price as Best Buy was the only other (reputable) place I could find with them...@ $50 more.

I am planing on using these as a 5.1 DVD/Console sytem for my bedroom, as I really didn't want a full component system in a room this size (medium). I already have a Xbox, and I recently picked up a decent DVD player, so these seemed like a nicer choice than some of the HT in a box kits.. I can use the optical and coaxial connections for the DVD and Xbox, and also use the analog input to connect my TV, and use the Pro Logic II with regular TV.

I did the research, and am aware of the potential problems I may encounter, however, I decided to give them a try since it is really only important how they sound to me. I should get them by the end of the week, and I will post my results...along with any problems..

Thanks for the info..

 

[bigpow]

^Bump^

Nice info.

At first I was sad because I thought my Z-560 was no longer fun...
I bought Klipsch PM5.1 twice, blown twice, returned with full refund ($400+).
Spend $115 for the Z-560 and couldn't be happier. (many thx to Anandtech HotDeals forum members!)

Ciao,
Bigpow

 

[Storm]

Wow thanks for the info...

 

[dmw16]

Good info but bad news. I was thinking about getting this setup for the apartment I'm moving into next year. Seemed like a good way to get 5.1 and all the surround sound support (particularly for GameCube). I also really love my Z560s. You can hear them up and down my dorm building hallway and they are really crisp too. Hopefully logitech will fix the problems with the new 680s.
-doug

 

[chizow]

Hmm..so is this hissing just poor speaker wire shielding or is it actually hardware related?

Chiz

 

[Lore]

I think it has to do with the amp design (in the sub).

 

[MrDurden]

Lore ? thanks for the quick response.

As you mentioned, I neglected to identify the source and effect, important considerations to be sure. The two problems I mentioned were present while running the analog or ?Direct? input (3 line input), and persisted in all of the effects (6 Ch Direct, Stereo, Stereo x2, PL2 Music, and PL2 Movie).

You said:
>I find that the bass on the Z-680s are more than sufficient, I keep my bass level at 3 bars from >the left. Setting it at the default middle setting is way too much for my neighbors and me.

Of course volume preferences are highly variable from person to person. Admittedly, my volume requirements could be deemed abnormal: we rely on my sound system to bring chest-reverberating bass to a 2-room apartment full of guests every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night at our UCLA bachelor pad. Listening to music at that volume on a day-to-day basis would be very uncomfortable. This is a bias I should have better indicated in my 1st post, but this type of loud music listening is probably not that abnormal for the AT demographic that would be interested in a bass intensive system such as the Z560 or Z680.

You said:
> Have you noticed any of the problems with the hissing and clicks/pops?
I cannot discern any hissing noise from a foot away from the speakers. I have two obnoxiously loud, overclocked, Athlon systems in the corner of our living room so slight hissing from the speakers is not something I would be able to hear amidst the drone of the computers. I use generic Radio Shack speaker wire (the first reel of wire I got was to thick for the holes on the satellites [ I believe it was 18 gauge ] so I got one size smaller [ I believe 16 gauge ] and it worked ok).

Note: I have not been able to test whether these two issues persist while using the Optical or Coax inputs due to a lack a component DVD player or other digital media to test it with. (I can?t get any sound from the optical or coax outputs of my Soyo Dragon KT333 Platinum c-media CMI8738 breakout sound card ? and I?ve tried 5 different software DVD programs using their various sound decoding modes ? so I my testing thus far will have to be limited to analog input.)

 

[Lore]

MrDurden:

Do me a favor and turn off your Athlons (I know, it's hard for me to turn off my computer too. ) and listen for the hissing. Just put your ears about a foot away and you should be able to hear them. Some Asia Pacific customers (as evidenced in the ExtremeTech forums) also have these problems with their units so I'd be very surprised if you didn't have them in yours...

And yes, if you're hosting guests and holding parties, I can see why you'd need the bass level up. But in those type of environments I don't see these type of speakers as the ideal set-up because of their directional features -- your guests would all need to be in the "ideal listening position" to take advantage of the 5 satellite set-up.

Where did you pick up your speakers? Best Buy seems to be the only retail place with them available right now.

 

[Insane3D]

Where did you pick up your speakers? Best Buy seems to be the only retail place with them available right now.

As I mentioned above, I just ordered mine from Newegg for $350 with free shipping..

 

[Lore]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Where did you pick up your speakers? Best Buy seems to be the only retail place with them available right now.

As I mentioned above, I just ordered mine from Newegg for $350 with free shipping..

Yeah, I know -- I was asking MrDurden (and asking specifically about retail outlets) =)

By the way, did you consider buying from CDW or mwave?

 

[Insane3D]

By the way, did you consider buying from CDW or mwave?

Well, not CDW, but Mwave...but both of them don't have stock, and don't expect any until early December. While the speakers are cheaper @ Mwave, with shipping it's not too much cheaper than Newegg...and I get three day shipping..

Also, since even Logitech's site is OOS on them, I figured they might be in short supply for awhile..

 

[Lore]

Also, since even Logitech's site is OOS on them, I figured they might be in short supply for awhile..

Probably because they're recalling them to fix these stupid "should-have-been-caught-early-on-in-the-development-process" problems!

I mean, one of the review sites even went in-depth and did an article on Logitech's speaker engineering group and showed the world what cool tools and resources the engineers have to work with to make a superior product, and they come out with such a disappointment. =(

 

[MrDurden]

>Do me a favor and turn off your Athlons and listen for the hissing.
Ok, after turning off the two computers, two mini-fridges, and kegerator that all sit in our cramped living room, I discovered that they do indeed put out a non-trivial hiss from a listening distance of one foot away. Right you are Lore. I have all the satellite speakers wall mounted at about eight feet (they?re angled down) so the hiss is not audible unless I stand on the couch or the bar and place my ear near one of the speakers.

>Where did you pick up your speakers?
Best Buy.

Hope this info helps prospective buyers?

p.s.

>Also, since even Logitech's site is OOS on them, I figured they might be in short supply for >awhile..

If anyone in LA area really wants these and can?t find them in retail I will sell mine for what I bought them for ($399 + tax). I can still return them to Best Buy but I thought I would throw this offer out to anyone dying to get them but unable to find them. And BTW, this is not OT since it is in response to an on topic speculation about product availability. So please, no one shout me over to FS forum. ?Thx.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Lore

Also, since even Logitech's site is OOS on them, I figured they might be in short supply for awhile..

Probably because they're recalling them to fix these stupid "should-have-been-caught-early-on-in-the-development-process" problems!

I mean, one of the review sites even went in-depth and did an article on Logitech's speaker engineering group and showed the world what cool tools and resources the engineers have to work with to make a superior product, and they come out with such a disappointment. =(

I decided I would listen to them myself and decide. There can be a ton of reviews telling me they sound terrible, but it is really up to each person's ear to decide what it likes. I am aware of the hiss, and I fully expect to have it in my set. I will not be using these speakers for a PC or music of any kind, just DVD's and Xbox gaming mostly. They will all be wall mounted, and no where near 1 ft from my ear, so like MrDurden said, it may be a non issue to me.

 

[CraigRT]

I'll stick with my home theater setup on my PC

love it... will never change it!

 

[Lore]

I decided I would listen to them myself and decide. There can be a ton of reviews telling me they sound terrible, but it is really up to each person's ear to decide what it likes. I am aware of the hiss, and I fully expect to have it in my set. I will not be using these speakers for a PC or music of any kind, just DVD's and Xbox gaming mostly. They will all be wall mounted, and no where near 1 ft from my ear, so like MrDurden said, it may be a non issue to me.

Let me know how your DVD playback sounds when you do a lot of menu navigating (look out for clicks and pops when you're going between menus).

 

[MasterHoss]

The jumpy volume control from the Z-680 control pod seems very similar to the issues with the ProMedia 5.1 volume control pod. Klipsch claims that the pod is getting damaged during shipping; I'm not sure what Logitech's excuse will be. I just avoid any potential problems with my ProMedia 5.1 control pod by using the Windows volume control to adjust my volume which is generally frowned upon but at least I won't have a heart attack with by a sudden jump in volume.

Just some notes...True, the ProMedia 5.1 speaker system has had a fairly high failure rate (based off of what various owners are reporting... my first set died on me as well). However, one should note that the Z-560s were also failing and a fairly high rate.

 

[Lore]

So I've been in contact with an audio/video specialist engineer (but not someone who actually designs the product) at Logitech regarding my Z-680s.

After talking to the engineers in Vancouver, he told me that the clicking/popping when navigating menus while watching a DVD is "normal" for the control pod (operates within standards) because the unit has to detect the correct data stream.

They currently have no plans to fix that problem. To me, this is unacceptable and I hope all of the Z-680 owners clamor loudly and get them to take care of the issue. None of the other decoders that I've used/know of have this problem!

About the hissing -- he's tried two different sets of Z-680s in an isolated environment at Logitech HQ and cannot find the hissing. We've talked about the different things that cause hissing (line noise, bad power, etc) and I pointed out to him that when the control pod is in standby, the hissing stops. When off, the control pod does _not_ turn the speakers off, so if it were an issue of dirty power the hissing should continue even if the pod was off.

However, it doesn't, so it's possible that the pod is picking up line noise from something and getting interfered with. We'll see, I guess. It's really unfortunate that I cannot have Logitech look at these speakers in their current environment because if you test even the worst things in an isolated environment, they may turn out to be winners but no one can realistically expect the end-users to have the same environments.

Argh, frustration. The negative response to the clicking/popping during COAX playback is enough to warrant a return, let alone finding out what they decide to do with the hissing (if they ever find it!)

However, I am very appreciative of the efforts Logitech has made to contact me and find out more info; if you guys have the same issues I encourage you to call them so this audio specialist can contact you and get more information. He says I am the first case that he's heard of with the hissing, so the more information from others the better!

Help yourselves out! Make contact.