Thinking of getting a fish tank.

[BoomerD]

Do yourself a HUGE favor...IF you're serious about starting a fishtank...find one of the aquarium-related forums and hang out there, and ask all the usual newbie questions. Most have a good FAQ section, and/or a newbie section with lots of tips and tricks on starting a tank from scratch.
Having been in the hobby in one way or another for over 30 years, (I go back to slate bottoms and putty seals instead of silicone!) I see lots of well-meaning but incorrect answers above.
Once you cycle a tank, you don't take out the gravel. That's where a significant part of your biological filter lives...yes, lives, as the biological filtration is bacteria...one breaks down ammonia (fish waste and uneaten foods) into nitrite, which is still toxic, just less so, then a different bacteria breaks the nitrite down into nitrate, which is non-toxic to most fish, and is controlled by doing water changes. Snails are the bane of most aquarium keepers. Get one, and usually it's not long before you have hundreds...
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/ is a good place to start. More for freshwater than salt, (but some salties there too) you should find lots of good people who will help you succeed...Beware the LFS (local fish store) most are only there to sell you SOMETHING, even when it doesn't fit your needs or help your problem. Many LFS have good people, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Once you cycle a tank, you don't take out the gravel. That's where a significant part of your biological filter lives...yes, lives, as the biological filtration is bacteria...

I don't see why you would want to take out the gravel in the first place. However, it is foolish to think that a significant part of the biological filter resides in the gravel. The bacteria need both ammonia/nitrite and oxygen in order to survive. With little circulation in the substrate, which is likely to be the case, there wouldn't be much of either.

Doesn't apply if the gravel has air pumped through it, but I doubt that would be the case.

 

[Chelsey]

For saltwater go to www.reefcentral.com

That place is a great source of information for saltwater fish-only and reef tanks. However, their server is painfully slow. I've got saltwater fish and have had freshwater. I like saltwater infinately better, I've got reef tanks, but it's very addicting and can quickly break the bank.

 

[SmoochyTX]

I would love to be able to keep up a fish tank but I'm awful enough at killing plants.

 

[RelaxTheMind]

Didnt see this: Try to keep it to about 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. Keep in mind the average adult length too.

If you get a sump pump (usually for salt setups) setup you can add the size of the reservoir too usually ~ 2.5g...

 

[Wuffsunie]

Fresh is cheaper than salt, by a factor of about 10. It's also far, far easier to find livestock and supplies.

As for water changes, you're usually looking at about 10-20% a month or so. Get one of these (Python) it's the best investment you can make for any tank. Get a good filter, either a really nice biowheel or a good canister filter You have to replace the filters in each every few weeks and give it a full semi annual cleaning, but that's about the extent of it. For cleaning the algae on the glass itself, go for one of the magnetic scrapers. Wonderful tools, beats brushes to all hell. Of course you have to get a square tank, really, because they suck on corners.

Of the fresh water variations, a fully tricked out live planted tank is the most expensive. Lights are the the second most, or the most (depending on size) expensive part. You'll need to get proper fixtures and bulbs, they can set you back quite a bit. If you want to go really large/high end, the biggest expense would be a Ph controller (I have one for sale) and CO2 tank to encourage plant growth. I went that way when I was into fresh water tanks. Works really well. Depending on tank size, you'd also want to start looking into canister filters as opposed to biowheels or other hang-on-the-back types. Depending on location of the tank in relation to actual sunlight, types of plants, and desired growth, you can get away with different levels of sophistication in what equipment you have.

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I'd want a different variety of fish, however (never was a fan of oscars.) Some yellow and/or blue tangs, etc.

Tangs are salt water fish, not what you're looking for.

Originally posted by: Kaido
I'm sure it won't be a problem. I've never actually had a tank break on me before. Leak yes, break no. And the leaky one was years and years ago. Just a word of caution is all

I had a tank leak on me. As long as the construction is solid (thick walls, good gluing job) and sitting level (use shims and a level to get that set up) you should be okay. My problem was the tank and stand combo I got was poorly made and over time shifted and started to warp. Given enough time it would have broke on me.

Anyway cKGunslinger, what I'd say to you is what I've said in other fish threads here; do more research and decide exactly what kind of tank you want. Then look into what you need to build it. Then decided what you need and buy the best that you can afford. Whatever you end up with, it'll be cheaper to go all out the first time, than to go cheap and have to replace it with something better down the road. Believe me, I know!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Once you cycle a tank, you don't take out the gravel. That's where a significant part of your biological filter lives...yes, lives, as the biological filtration is bacteria...

I don't see why you would want to take out the gravel in the first place. However, it is foolish to think that a significant part of the biological filter resides in the gravel. The bacteria need both ammonia/nitrite and oxygen in order to survive. With little circulation in the substrate, which is likely to be the case, there wouldn't be much of either.

Doesn't apply if the gravel has air pumped through it, but I doubt that would be the case.

The comment about removing the gravel is because of this:

q]Originally posted by: isekii
1. Fresh water is much easier than salt.
2. Get one of those Snails and fish that eat the Algae.
3. Keep it away from the Sunlight, that'll slow the algae growth.
4. you don't need to drain the whole tank. Just Take out the gravel and replace like 20% of the old water with new fresh water. (Treated of course.)[/quote]

Actually, depending on how deep the gravel is, a significant amount of the nitrifying bacteria can and does live there. I've kept saltwater reefs for years, with a Deep Sand Bed, which is 4 to 6" of sugar-fine sand, and it's chock full of nitrifying bacteria...so much in fact, that it breaks nitrates down into nitrogen gas which bubbles off harmlessly into the atmosphere. Is there water flow through that sand bed? yes...but VERY slow, and as you alluded to, there is very little oxygen deep in that sand bed...which is why it works the way it does.(anerobic instead of aerobic)
For a freshwater tank however, I'd go with a thin layer of gravel that would be easy to siphon the accumulated mulm out of, and rely on both a quality HOB filter like an AquaClear, and probably a decent canister filter like one of the Eheim Professional units. Magnum's are great for carbon filtering the water, but poor for biological filtration, and Fluvals have had too many problems in the past couple of years with the new designs...SUPPOSEDLY, their newest design has solved many of the problems with the *04 series, (and the *03 series were only a PITA to deal with). Eheim's Professional and Professional II canisters are top of the line, and quality built.

 

[IGBT]

..great hobby but you'll have to marry the tank to keep it live.

 

[antyler]

dont buy your fish at wal mart

 

[Old Hippie]

I have a 72 gal. with a 20 gal. sump. It's got @ 25 Chiclids and requires at least 3 hours of maintenance a week. Go hang out at Chiclid Forum to see what you're getting yourself into.

 

[Gooberlx2]

1. Freshwater is easier if only because you don't have to mix the salt and periodically test for salinity. Beyond that I don't feel fresh is all that much different.
2. Not possible. With good filtration you won't have to completely empty/fill the tank, but you're going to have to do partial water changes every so often to remove nitrate build up. Besides, you'll still have to scrub algae and siphon detritus from the substrate.
3. www.fishbase.org is great for taxonomy purposes

edit: Well, #2 is possible, but not terribly practical for your purposes, imo.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Is there water flow through that sand bed? yes...but VERY slow, and as you alluded to, there is very little oxygen deep in that sand bed...which is why it works the way it does.(anerobic instead of aerobic)

From what I've heard (I have no way of telling with my tank) anaerobic conditions are something you don't want in a freshwater setup.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..great hobby but you'll have to marry the tank to keep it live.

That's the impression I'm starting to get. I'll definitely slow down and research this some more..

 

[flot]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: IGBT
..great hobby but you'll have to marry the tank to keep it live.

That's the impression I'm starting to get. I'll definitely slow down and research this some more..

I disagree. I have had a saltwater tank for a few years now, and it is constant work. But before that I kept freshwater fish for probably 8 years and after the tank was up and going (say a few months) it was practically no maintenance other than the very occasional 50% water change.

A decent sized 30-40 gal freshwater tank, kept out of the sunlight and stocked with a handful of fish is just not difficult to maintain...

 

[MagicConch]

Originally posted by: flot
I disagree. I have had a saltwater tank for a few years now, and it is constant work. But before that I kept freshwater fish for probably 8 years and after the tank was up and going (say a few months) it was practically no maintenance other than the very occasional 50% water change.

A decent sized 30-40 gal freshwater tank, kept out of the sunlight and stocked with a handful of fish is just not difficult to maintain...

When you say constant work, do you mean like a couple hours a day? I am thinking of skipping freshwater and going to straight to saltwater reef (and perhaps pay some dude to come out once a week and help me out)

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Freshwater is infinitely easier to maintain than saltwater. There are two kinds of freshwater tanks:

1. Cold water
2. Tropical

Cold water is great for goldfish; I used to have a 20-gallon tank with fancy goldfish before I moved. A tropical freshwater tank simply requires a heater. If you want goldfish, go cold; if you want anything else, go tropical. You'll need the following:

-tank
-lid and light for tank
-stand (or a table to put it on)
-bubble maker (pump)
-gravel
-various chemicals
-decorations
-fish
-fish food
-filter & spare filter cartridges
-sponge-on-a-stick or algae-eater (it's a fish)
-fishtank hose & a bucket (for water changes & cleaning the gravel)

Modern filters are awesome. I really like Penguin filters. btw, under-gravel filters are a thing of the past. To maintain a tank, change the filter once a month and do a water change once a month (can't remember if it's 25% or 50%). The filter is easier than taking out a trash bag; just pop the lid, lift the old one out, and put the new one in. The water change involves a simple hose (manual suction). You fill it with water than invert it to get the pressure going and drain it into a bucket. The nozzle of the hose is use to suck up crap off gravel and to suck out the water. Then just refill the water and add a few drops of decholorinator (I think that's the chemical?). Really really easy to maintain and quiet. If you do your once-a-month cleaning, it won't really smell at all. Oh and as far as algae goes, get a sucker fish to eat the algae if you get a tropical tank. If you get a cold water tank, you'll need to get one of those cheap sponges-on-a-stick to wipe the sides with when you change the filter.

If the filter cartridges contain charcoal, please rinse it with water first and soak it for a minute or two. fresh dry charcoal removes oxygen and its better to avoid this.

Make sure the de-chorinator removes chloramines also. That is if your city adds them.

If you have algae problems, reduce the light.
If you have waste problems stop overfeeding.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: RelaxTheMind
Didnt see this: Try to keep it to about 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. Keep in mind the average adult length too.

If you get a sump pump (usually for salt setups) setup you can add the size of the reservoir too usually ~ 2.5g...

This is bad advice. The amount of fish per tank has to fit the setup.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Is there water flow through that sand bed? yes...but VERY slow, and as you alluded to, there is very little oxygen deep in that sand bed...which is why it works the way it does.(anerobic instead of aerobic)

From what I've heard (I have no way of telling with my tank) conditions are something you don't want in a freshwater setup.

Yes this is the nasty smell we all want to avoid. If you stir the gravel and gas bubbles are coming out thats a bad sign. Anaerobic bacteria can be helpful in a certain filter setup, but it is not sold and seldom used.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
1. Freshwater is easier if only because you don't have to mix the salt and periodically test for salinity. Beyond that I don't feel fresh is all that much different.
2. Not possible. With good filtration you won't have to completely empty/fill the tank, but you're going to have to do partial water changes every so often to remove nitrate build up. Besides, you'll still have to scrub algae and siphon detritus from the substrate.
3. www.fishbase.org is great for taxonomy purposes

edit: Well, #2 is possible, but not terribly practical for your purposes, imo.

..some communities are using a new high persistance chlorine in the muni.water supply that kills fish.

 

[Wuffsunie]

Originally posted by: MagicConch

Originally posted by: flot
I disagree. I have had a saltwater tank for a few years now, and it is constant work.

When you say constant work, do you mean like a couple hours a day? I am thinking of skipping freshwater and going to straight to saltwater reef (and perhaps pay some dude to come out once a week and help me out)

I'm kind of interested myself. I have a 90 gallon reef tank and don't spend more than a couple min on maintenance each day. Most of that's to make sure all the readings (temp, PH) are correct, see how much crap my skimmer has pulled out and if it's in need of cleaning, and if the glass needs any algae scraping.

I did spend more time in the past on the tank, but that was dicking around with inferior, touchy equipment, trying to get it long-term stable and such. With my current setup (and largely the one before) I haven't had to do much of anything.