Thinking of quitting my career job. Need help!

[Red Squirrel]

IT is not what it used to be. When computers first started to get popular IT was a big deal. Now it's just seen as a cost and companies are constantly trying to find ways to cut costs which includes outsourcing IT, moving stuff to the cloud etc. The IT industry as a whole is more cut throat as well. That said there are still good IT jobs. That's essentially the situation I'm in now. It's telecommunications so not quite IT but close enough. Traditional telco stuff is dying so I don't know how long I'll have this job but I'll stick with it for as long as I can. I make really good money, like 80k or so and it's a shift work job so I get lot of time off. Not really looking forward to 5G though as they will all be managed down south so we won't get to touch it, and it might take our customers away. Then again with 1-2GB caps I don't see it taking over much internet or business phone customers so it may not be as big of a thing as they are pushing it to be. They said they want to shut down all the DMS switches (which we monitor/manage and is our bread and butter) by like 2024 or something like that but I just don't see it happening.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Why is everyone in AnandTECH forum suddenly hatin' on IT?

I've been trying to get DEEPER into IT last 10 years and I've been rewarded pretty well financially... and good hours (including WFH).

Office jobs are office jobs. It won't be all roses and rainbows when you change your industry. As a matter of fact, I can't think of an industry that pays this well when comparing given years of experience.

I don't hate on IT. I hate on our shit country for allowing corporations to learn the hardway that cheaping out on IT has unintentional and indirect consequences. Those are costs that you can't see or anticipate ahead of time and put as a factor on your yearly budget - so when they see "We can outsource and save xx% on our IT costs" it sounds amazing.

No, you can't outsource and expect your IT to perform or have the same equivalent security.... But stupid people in board rooms just think it's as simple as handing out laptops and tech-support.

Now companies are learning the hard way with data breaches, PR nightmares, ransomware spreading, etc.. etc... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I guess I hate on IT because it just isn't a great place to be in like it used to. On top of outsourcing, now companies are bringing it back to the states some-what BUT it's in the form of Cloud/SaaS/AWS. My company just laid off everyone that maintaining all our servers and is migrating to AWS.

 

[purbeast0]

In the IT/software world, the saying "you get what you pay for" has never been more true.

I see it in development all the time. I was randomly browsing job boards and saw companies offering $90k/yr for a SENIOR software engineer position. Their reasoning was because they are a remote company and they don't have to compete with people in the high cost of living areas.

Well yeah good luck with that. There is a reason that good developers get paid more and it's not just due to where they live. I can pretty much guarantee that if a senior software engineer was making $90k/yr in a low cost of living area, and you told them they could make $180k in a higher COL area (and I'm not even talking about the bay area or SV), that most would jump at the opportunity.

The non-tech people who make these decisions and hire don't understand that 2 employees being paid $75k/each doesn't mean they are going to be more productive than 1 employee at $150k. The person who can earn $150k could be 3-4 more times productive than those 2 employees at $75k.

 

[Zeze]

I guess I hate on IT because it just isn't a great place to be in like it used to. On top of outsourcing, now companies are bringing it back to the states some-what BUT it's in the form of Cloud/SaaS/AWS. My company just laid off everyone that maintaining all our servers and is migrating to AWS.

Yup. You gotta roll with the punches life throws at you.

Our company is exploring public cloud options as well. Also lots of companies are adopting enterprise Agile - tons of middle engineering managers and traditional waterfall PMs are getting left out.

Also BAs are feeling left out too since POs can write them as User Stories with Gherkin.

That's 3 distinct roles all vanishing and people are panicking in last 3 years.

Life is continuous learning and pivot where/when you can do make $$.

 

[mistercrabby]

Good IT people never go hungry.

 

[brianmanahan]

I can pretty much guarantee that if a senior software engineer was making $90k/yr in a low cost of living area, and you told them they could make $180k in a higher COL area (and I'm not even talking about the bay area or SV), that most would jump at the opportunity.

doubtful. as someone who worked in rural LCOL areas, almost every dev is aware of the higher pay in other areas but does not want to leave because of strong family and community ties. for many people who have grown up in a rural area, it's a pretty big deal.

companies in those areas often use that to their advantage (senior dev pay capping out below 100$k) but i have seen it backfire when they can't get enough people to move there to keep up with turnover rates. one place i know of decided to settle with less dev throughput and adopted a "keep the lights on" mentality, but another eventually increased their pay scale.

it is often possible to find a way to make 150$k as a dev in a LCOL place though, which is nice when you can still buy nice houses for 150$k. key is to keep bouncing around, keep moving up and be willing to drive a longish way to work.

The non-tech people who make these decisions and hire don't understand that 2 employees being paid $75k/each doesn't mean they are going to be more productive than 1 employee at $150k. The person who can earn $150k could be 3-4 more times productive than those 2 employees at $75k.

possibly. but i have also known devs making about 150$k who still can't complete a project unless a lead dev is holding their hand.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

What I love is more companies like mine just saying I don't give a fuck where you work. Here's a laptop, docking station, monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Get your shit done, I don't care when or where as long as it's done by the due date.

Want to meet with people? Schedule a webex or drive to see eachother if you want.

 

[ultimatebob]

Try using that little nub in the center of the keyboard! I really don't understand how anyone can learn to use that thing.

Dude, I used to be a ninja with that Trackpoint when I used to have a ThinkPad. I could even play WoW on it without difficulty.

 

[ultimatebob]

What I love is more companies like mine just saying I don't give a fuck where you work. Here's a laptop, docking station, monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Get your shit done, I don't care when or where as long as it's done by the due date.

Want to meet with people? Schedule a webex or drive to see eachother if you want.

The weird thing is that this seems to be changing, and bosses want to see your faces in the office and your butts in the chairs from 9 to 5. I think that's because they can remember back to when they worked from home in the 2000's and goofed off half of the time

 

[Zeze]

What I love is more companies like mine just saying I don't give a fuck where you work. Here's a laptop, docking station, monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Get your shit done, I don't care when or where as long as it's done by the due date.

Want to meet with people? Schedule a webex or drive to see eachother if you want.

We still live in a face-to-face world of course. If you are still looking to climb up and expand, it's best to be showing up on-site.

I know several tech leads that are remote & 100% WFH in SoCal with company HQ and team in St. Louis. They can be remote because they're invaluable.

Also probably it'll be very hard for them to move up the ladder as well.

 

[brianmanahan]

Also probably it'll be very hard for them to move up the ladder as well.

that'd be fine for me, nowadays i flat-out tell people i am not interested in going any higher and have turned down multiple promotion offers.

so i've thought about trying to go %100 remote. maybe when/if i get sick of the job i have now.

 

[BudAshes]

that'd be fine for me, nowadays i flat-out tell people i am not interested in going any higher and have turned down multiple promotion offers.

so i've thought about trying to go %100 remote. maybe when/if i get sick of the job i have now.

The problem with 100% remote is the boredom. I was pretty damn bored after 3 years of doing it. But then again I like my co-workers and we have a good time together, if I hated these fuckers then I'd probably been happier being remote. Now that I moved back near the office I just work from home when I feel like it and I'm enjoying the job more.

 

[purbeast0]

The problem with 100% remote is the boredom. I was pretty damn bored after 3 years of doing it. But then again I like my co-workers and we have a good time together, if I hated these fuckers then I'd probably been happier being remote. Now that I moved back near the office I just work from home when I feel like it and I'm enjoying the job more.

I would NOT be bored at all. Because I'd move to somewhere tropical and would be diving and fishing every weekend in the ocean.

I actually talked with a company about a job down in Key West about a month ago and after the initial call with 3 team members went really well, I brought up salary, and unfortunately it was about $50k less than I make now so we stopped the process right then and there. But if it was comparable to what I was making now, I would have been gone.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The weird thing is that this seems to be changing, and bosses want to see your faces in the office and your butts in the chairs from 9 to 5. I think that's because they can remember back to when they worked from home in the 2000's and goofed off half of the time

We still live in a face-to-face world of course. If you are still looking to climb up and expand, it's best to be showing up on-site.

I know several tech leads that are remote & 100% WFH in SoCal with company HQ and team in St. Louis. They can be remote because they're invaluable.

Also probably it'll be very hard for them to move up the ladder as well.

Latest job that I just got is just that... 100% work from home - unless we need to present to clients... which is maybe...25% at most. I haven't traveled much yet, and those are 1-day things. My employer doesn't even have an office where I live even if I wanted to go in.

At this point, I climbed up the ladder far enough. I'm happy with my mid-6 pay. I have no reason to want to increase my responsibilities. I did that shit for the last 7+ years with way shittier employment.

 

[Zeze]

I'm happy with my mid-6 pay.

500K or you mean 150K?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

500K or you mean 150K?

Hahahaha $150k. I wish $500k, but I think few here would bank that kinda money. And since my wife works and makes another 6-figs (albeit, less than me) I'm perfectly content for the rest of my life. I've pretty much made that decision. I can pay off our new home in about 5 years. I can safely sock away enough funds into 529s for our kids... and we can easily retire early.

And mind you, I live in an area where $150k buys you a 2--story 3-bedroom home... not a place where $1m buys you a shithole.

But seriously, I moved from consulting to industry and my overall responsibilities have just plummeted. I haven't had this amount of lack of responsibilities for 7 years. It's fucking awesome.

 

[shortylickens]

IT is not what it used to be. When computers first started to get popular IT was a big deal. Now it's just seen as a cost and companies are constantly trying to find ways to cut costs which includes outsourcing IT, moving stuff to the cloud etc. The IT industry as a whole is more cut throat as well. That said there are still good IT jobs. That's essentially the situation I'm in now. It's telecommunications so not quite IT but close enough. Traditional telco stuff is dying so I don't know how long I'll have this job but I'll stick with it for as long as I can. I make really good money, like 80k or so and it's a shift work job so I get lot of time off. Not really looking forward to 5G though as they will all be managed down south so we won't get to touch it, and it might take our customers away. Then again with 1-2GB caps I don't see it taking over much internet or business phone customers so it may not be as big of a thing as they are pushing it to be. They said they want to shut down all the DMS switches (which we monitor/manage and is our bread and butter) by like 2024 or something like that but I just don't see it happening.

The exact same thing happened in the engineering community.
When I was in high school all the teachers, councilers, and parents kept raving about what a good career move it would be for me and by the time I actually entered the field the jobs were all being downsized and outsourced and I am so sorry I ever set down this path.
Right now I manage alarms for 17 bucks an hour at a place that doesnt really need me and definitely doesnt need my skills. I thought I was gonna be making good money by thirty and would have bought my mother a house years ago.
Not even close.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The exact same thing happened in the engineering community.
When I was in high school all the teachers, councilers, and parents kept raving about what a good career move it would be for me and by the time I actually entered the field the jobs were all being downsized and outsourced and I am so sorry I ever set down this path.
Right now I manage alarms for 17 bucks an hour at a place that doesnt really need me and definitely doesnt need my skills. I thought I was gonna be making good money by thirty and would have bought my mother a house years ago.
Not even close.

Pretty much. It's all about reducing costs these days.

I make decent bank, but my job is essentially selling the software that reduces a company's costs.

 

[Zeze]

I would NOT be bored at all. Because I'd move to somewhere tropical and would be diving and fishing every weekend in the ocean.

I actually talked with a company about a job down in Key West about a month ago and after the initial call with 3 team members went really well, I brought up salary, and unfortunately it was about $50k less than I make now so we stopped the process right then and there. But if it was comparable to what I was making now, I would have been gone.

MMMMMMMMMMM Key West.

 

[Captante]

Whoops nevermind ... didn't notice the Necro I'd quoted

 

[brianmanahan]

Whoops nevermind ... didn't notice the Necro I'd quoted

quoting old posts is fine

the stereotype against necroing is dying because ATOT needs any posts it can get

 

[njdevilsfan87]

I know several tech leads that are remote & 100% WFH in SoCal with company HQ and team in St. Louis. They can be remote because they're invaluable.

Also probably it'll be very hard for them to move up the ladder as well.

I'd say working remotely is an alternative to moving up the ladder. Although it is more a means to an end. Because very few entry level or even those with a few years of experience get that privilege. It's mostly reserved for those who have a good and proven track record. WFH can be a step in an external means of moving up the ladder:

If you maintain good ties with companies throughout the years, you can eventually "advance" to independent contractor and build your own LLC or Corp. This way you WFH for these same companies, but are no longer on the same 9-to-5 schedule with everyone else. Because as the independent contractor, part of your role is to propose work, come up with estimated dates of completion, budgets, etc. You effectively have work outsourced work to you a high rate (more than you'd earn with salary + benefits not to mention tax benefits of owning your own business), and return the task done by a date with minimal interruptions from "the team". After a while, you may be contracted to 2-3 companies at once, which is probably the ideal place to be, so that unpaid downtime is completely fine and you don't lose "the client" or the ties once work picks up again.

 

[Exterous]

Why is everyone in AnandTECH forum suddenly hatin' on IT?

I've been trying to get DEEPER into IT last 10 years and I've been rewarded pretty well financially... and good hours (including WFH).

Office jobs are office jobs. It won't be all roses and rainbows when you change your industry. As a matter of fact, I can't think of an industry that pays this well when comparing given years of experience.

Just my opinion but I feel like IT careers hop around a lot more and have more functional teams to jump in and out of. So on the upside you get a higher pay from demand and jumping around. The downside is that you see more office BS from the jumping. And if you stay somewhere in the same or similar position there is the very real risk your skills get old and stale, especially since a lot of companies don't have the finances, talent, interest in pushing their IT boundaries beyond what currently works for them.

The problem with 100% remote is the boredom. I was pretty damn bored after 3 years of doing it. But then again I like my co-workers and we have a good time together, if I hated these fuckers then I'd probably been happier being remote. Now that I moved back near the office I just work from home when I feel like it and I'm enjoying the job more.

I WFH sometimes but with anything longer than a week I start to miss the social interactions.

 

[Dmrse]

Seems like at least for the last decade there were more people going into IT than there were good jobs for them. Maybe that's starting to change now. I know in my industry (industrial manufacturing) some of the best-paying jobs have a hard time finding enough qualified workers to fill spots. Here's something I read the other day:

"Due to shifts in the industry, many manufacturers are beginning to experience a shortage of properly trained workers who have sufficient skills in installation, production, and maintenance trades. These industries are also having difficulties locating degreed workers who understand the ongoing advances in manufacturing relating to AI, VR/AR usage, robotics adoption, the use of digital twins, and other high-tech processes that are changing the industry. As over one-fourth of the manufacturing workforce is set to retire over the next decade, these challenges will only continue to expand." (the whole article can be found here if you want to read the whole thing.)

I've got two kids in college. I keep telling both of them to look at hard science degrees like electrical, biomedical or mechanical engineering if they want to be assured a job after graduation. Twenty years down the road? Eh, no one can predict that.