Thinkpad T460p - What a Disappointment

[Azuma Hazuki]

Lenovo's lost my custom for good with this one. notebookcheck.net's review of the T460p was much too forgiving, given what the *p -series are supposed to mean.

The T460p casing is basically a slightly thicker T460. They put in CPUs rated for 45W TDP, but locked them at 35W. This means huge performance losses compared to other units that don't throttle their CPUs' TDPs. As a result, people buying these will get less performance than they expect. And even with the throttling, this thing still gets blazing hot, reaching well over 90*C at the processor thermal sensor.

I could have forgiven the weird keyboard layout and switch from normal to scissor keys, since by the last generation they seem to have hammered out decent travel. But this...between the artificially limited performance, deliberately subpar casing and cooling, and comparative flimsiness of the case compared to, oh, my almost 9 year old T500...Lenovo's on my s***-list.

That guy who was making concept art for a Classic-series Thinkpad better come through...as for me? My next machine is going to be an Asus, or better.

 

[TeknoBug]

Ever since Lenovo took over IBM's laptop lines, I haven't been liking them as much, used to swear by IBM Thinkpads for over a decade, I still had a 390E (Pentium II 233MHz) laying around up until last summer where i took it to recycling (ran Linux on it and used it to stream Tunein and Sirius radio while outside).

 

[Darknite39]

I just relented and picked up a T440p to supplement my T420s, and it's quite solid after I swapped in a proper trackpad and 1080 IPS screen. Maybe consider one of these with a quad? They're pretty cheap on Ebay and after some key remapping, pretty serviceable.

That said, your point about the T460p is crazy. I can't imagine why they'd do that. It's a "p" model, for crying out loud!

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

I am really beginning to wonder what kind of incentives--or threats--Lenovo is handing out to the staff of notebookcheck.net. Just read their X260 review; any other company's machine that performed that badly would be at least 10 percentage points lower.

To hell with this. My next one may well be an Asus UX305; that one is at least priced fairly. Lenovo has, short of actually making that Thinkpad Classic they teased on the dev blog, lost me as a customer forever.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

I just relented and picked up a T440p to supplement my T420s, and it's quite solid after I swapped in a proper trackpad and 1080 IPS screen. Maybe consider one of these with a quad? They're pretty cheap on Ebay and after some key remapping, pretty serviceable.

That said, your point about the T460p is crazy. I can't imagine why they'd do that. It's a "p" model, for crying out loud!

Wow! Is it worth going all the way with a screen upgrade and trackpad replacement? O_O

 

[Darknite39]

The standard trackpad on that series is unusable, as was the 1366*768 screen (for me). Those upgrades cost $111 and about 30 mins of my time. They're both easy but require a bit of disassembly.

 

[holden j caufield]

still rocking my t420, w520. 20 series is still the best in terms of ergonomics, speed, ease of upgrades, heat, switchable batteries. A rep gave me a w550s to try out. I used it for 1 day and said it was garbage compared to my w520. Worse keyboard, worse cpu, very little improvement in battery or heat.

 

[C1]

If that is true, then Wow ! Who can you trust ?

Laptop magazine gives w550s a superlative review.

 

[holden j caufield]

Well thinkpad users are different breed in general, but I'd look at more neutral parties for a review.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

What exactly is the T460p being compared to? On the surface, it is going a much different direction compared to every other Business laptop maker out there. For one thing, this is the only 14" business laptop out of the Big 3 (Lenovo, Dell, HP) that is using a Quad Core H series processor. All the others in that category are actually using 15 watt TDP U Series Dual Core CPUs. Given the difference, a 35W TDP lock appears rather nice. Combined with a dGPU, it's not exactly like the chassis only has a little work to do. 90 degrees is high, but its still within the temp range the chip is designed to handle.

For those looking for a business laptop with a dGPU and a real quad core CPU, this is about the only thing available on the market.

I'd be interested to see how consumer "rougher edged" laptops perform like Clevo and Sager. I know they both have 14" models with equivalent H series CPUs and high TDP GPUs, so I'd be curious to know if they are able to work well without throttling, and if they lock the TDP.

 

[paperwastage]

What exactly is the T460p being compared to? On the surface, it is going a much different direction compared to every other Business laptop maker out there. For one thing, this is the only 14" business laptop out of the Big 3 (Lenovo, Dell, HP) that is using a Quad Core H series processor.

Dell has a 14" E5470, option of quad core 35/45W skylake

specsheet says you can add dGPU (R7 M360, slower than T460p's 940MX), but I haven't seen a config available for quad core+dGPU (only ULV+IGP, ULV+dGPU, quad+IGP)

probably dell is having issues with thermal control if they use quad+dGPU

See specsheet below
http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/...-Latitude-14-5000-Series-E5470-Spec-Sheet.pdf


I ordered an E5470 (i7 6820HQ+IGP), will be running some tests to see how Dell handles the thermal throttling

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Dell has a 14" E5470, option of quad core 35/45W skylake

specsheet says you can add dGPU (R7 M360, slower than T460p's 940MX), but I haven't seen a config available for quad core+dGPU (only ULV+IGP, ULV+dGPU, quad+IGP)

probably dell is having issues with thermal control if they use quad+dGPU

See specsheet below
http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/...-Latitude-14-5000-Series-E5470-Spec-Sheet.pdf


I ordered an E5470 (i7 6820HQ+IGP), will be running some tests to see how Dell handles the thermal throttling

:thumbsup: I stand corrected. According to what I'm reading, the review noted in the OP only tested the IGP model, which only has a single heatpipe. The dGPU model is supposed to have a larger dual heatpipe solution. My guess is that the Dell you mentioned is using a similar solution.

I'll be curious to see how the Dell works out. I'd also be curious to know if the Dell is using a similar 1 or 2 heatpipe layout.

 

[paperwastage]

:thumbsup: I stand corrected. According to what I'm reading, the review noted in the OP only tested the IGP model, which only has a single heatpipe. The dGPU model is supposed to have a larger dual heatpipe solution. My guess is that the Dell you mentioned is using a similar solution.

I'll be curious to see how the Dell works out. I'd also be curious to know if the Dell is using a similar 1 or 2 heatpipe layout.

http://topics-cdn.dell.com/pdf/latitude-e5470-laptop_Owner's Manual_en-us.pdf

maybe single heatpipe? (page 23 of PDF above)

Need to open mine to install 2x16GB DDR4, but don't think i'll actually dissasemble the laptop that far

 

[crashtech]

Sad to hear about this latest offering from Lenovo. They've always been my go-to for a solid, fast laptop.

 

[paperwastage]

:thumbsup: I stand corrected. According to what I'm reading, the review noted in the OP only tested the IGP model, which only has a single heatpipe. The dGPU model is supposed to have a larger dual heatpipe solution. My guess is that the Dell you mentioned is using a similar solution.

I'll be curious to see how the Dell works out. I'd also be curious to know if the Dell is using a similar 1 or 2 heatpipe layout.

same behavior on the E5470....

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/new-latitude-5470.785426/page-7

(don't want to clutter this thread, which is supposed to be for T460p)

 

[nerp]

If I were to get a Lenovo, I'd get the X1 Carbon. That is a nice machine and the trackpad is solid.

 

[Hulk]

I've had my Thinkpad t450s for about a year now and absolutely love it. The only thing that could be better is to make it thinner, lighter, and with a Skylake processor. Oh wait that's the new t460s!

 

[sxr7171]

I don't know about the "p" version but the "s" version (the one I usually would get) is pretty impressive at 3lbs. Still I would prefer the X1 myself.

But I know the "p" is the performance optimized variant and I suppose they needed to engineer a better cooling setup for it. But I had an IBM Thinkpad x31 which got too hot even use on your lap at times. You could cook an egg on the bottom easily. Even the x60 (from the IBM days) got very hot. The x200s was a very cool running X series for once but it was a bigger machine. I don't have experience with the x40 but it was so small and light that it would compete with today's top ultraportables. I bet it got hot too.

I suppose they got lazy with designing a bigger case for the "p" version. Because that's what it needs to allow the CPU to stretch its legs.

 

[JNavas]

...
The T460p casing is basically a slightly thicker T460. They put in CPUs rated for 45W TDP, but locked them at 35W. This means huge performance losses compared to other units that don't throttle their CPUs' TDPs. As a result, people buying these will get less performance than they expect. And even with the throttling, this thing still gets blazing hot, reaching well over 90*C at the processor thermal sensor.
...
My next machine is going to be an Asus, or better.

As compared to my T420s (excellent except for the mediocre display panel), I'm generally not a fan of snap together cases and island keyboards, but I'm pretty impressed by the T460p.

Pros:

• Intel i7-6820HQ performance is excellent, not significantly impaired by the lower temperature limit, even on severe workloads (e.g., video encoding).
• NVIDIA 940MX graphics performance is very good.
  
• WQHD display panel is outstanding, better than any other notebook panel I've ever seen.
  
• Keyboard is pretty good all things considered.
• Remarkably thin, small and light for so much performance (with 3 cell battery).
  
• Remarkably quiet, even under severe workload.
  
• Very good fingerprint reader.

Cons:

• 72Wh battery bulge is annoying, but I don't care much about battery life, so replaced it with slim 3 cell battery.
• Standard 135W power adapter is clunky, but it works fine on my slim Targus 90W adapter.
  
• No USB Type-C port(s). [What were they thinking?!]
• I prefer ThinkLight to keyboard backlighting.
• Lack of dedicated function buttons and proper indicator lights.

On balance, the pros far outweigh the cons (for me at least). I don't know of another 14" machine that measures up.

 

[Blue_Max]

For what it's worth, I've had extremely good luck with the HP Elitebook business line - easily some of the best quality LCD's I've ever used on a notebook. Great keyboard, trackpoint, decent trackpad... no throttling issues but the downside is louder than average fan noise if you're doing something with intense processing like a huge database or a game.

Sad to see Thinkpads fall so far...

 

[JNavas]

For what it's worth, I've had extremely good luck with the HP Elitebook business line - easily some of the best quality LCD's I've ever used on a notebook. Great keyboard, trackpoint, decent trackpad... no throttling issues but the downside is louder than average fan noise if you're doing something with intense processing like a huge database or a game.
Sad to see Thinkpads fall so far...

My own take, based on experience with both, is that ThinkPad is a much better value than EliteBook, particularly the T460p, which is a substantial return to old ThinkPad form.

 

[Blue_Max]

My own take, based on experience with both, is that ThinkPad is a much better value than EliteBook, particularly the T460p, which is a substantial return to old ThinkPad form.

Good point... I got my fleet at such a good just-off-lease price I hadn't considered the new retail cost.

 

[crashtech]

I just relented and picked up a T440p to supplement my T420s, and it's quite solid after I swapped in a proper trackpad and 1080 IPS screen...

Since this thread has been resuscitated, I am terribly curious to know the part numbers of a usable trackpad and a 1080 IPS screen that will fit a T440p. Actually, I'd like to know if they make that stuff for the T540 and up as well.

 

[JNavas]

Since this thread has been resuscitated, I am terribly curious to know the part numbers of a usable trackpad and a 1080 IPS screen that will fit a T440p. Actually, I'd like to know if they make that stuff for the T540 and up as well.

Please take that to a more appropriate thread.
This thread is on the T460p.
Thank you.

 

[crashtech]

Please take that to a more appropriate thread.
This thread is on the T460p.
Thank you.

It's likely such information would apply to later models as well. Also, I question your authority to make such requests.