This Christanity thing is confusing.

[Pulsar]

The same goes for the school teacher who at death still continues to base her entering heaven on her good works. However her good works will never be good enough so she would never qualify.

I like it. Create a circular system where the only way you won't suffer a hideous fate is to admit you'll never be good enough - that it's impossible for you to be good enough - that you are inadequate and sad - UNLESS you bow down to an imaginary sky dude. Naw. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The op's assumptions are incorrect. There is no compact, there is no quid pro quo, there is no guarantee. God will judge you. I also understand these threads are not for people looking for enlightenment. They seem to be created for attention and those wishing to vent their anger and fear.

 

[elitejp]

I like it. Create a circular system where the only way you won't suffer a hideous fate is to admit you'll never be good enough - that it's impossible for you to be good enough - that you are inadequate and sad - UNLESS you bow down to an imaginary sky dude. Naw. Nothing wrong with that.

I dont get what was hard to understand. The OP asked about Christianity and in Christianity there is a God. I guess he should have asked what your opinion was on the subject and then your response would be valid.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You used a lot of words, but it's referred to as cheap grace.

A hailmary at the end of your life won't change a thing.

So that's hitler.

The school teacher is gonna burn too. Good works won't get you in.

God sure does run a elitist heaven, for those whose only purpose in life is pure unadulterated praise and worship for him, while demanding humility from those same people.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Let me say this here and now: any being that makes it a requirement to kiss its ass in order to avoid being fucking tortured forever, let alone any length of time, is a demon.

All of you who worship this being are devil-worshipers. You will pay for your evil.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Let me say this here and now: any being that makes it a requirement to kiss its ass in order to avoid being fucking tortured forever, let alone any length of time, is a demon.

All of you who worship this being are devil-worshipers. You will pay for your evil.

The price is cheap, your dignity and humanity.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

No, the price is tremendous: your soul's progress. There is no recovering from that in any lifetime you make that bargain; you almost always have to reincarnate to learn better. The best you can hope for is a half-vacation, half-detention in what you might think of as a "hollow Heaven" surrounded by people like you for however long it takes you to get bored with, and creeped out by, those beliefs, at which point you beg to be reincarnated.

If all the Muslims and Christians suddenly spontaneously lit on fire for, say, 15 seconds or so, I think it would give them a salutary and much-needed lesson in perspective on what it is they say they believe in.

 

[WelshBloke]

Show me one time someone posted on ATOT promoting their religion and denouncing atheism.

You say that but these forums are the most religious "space" I've ever inhabited so it's all relative I guess.

 

[Paladin3]

Let me say this here and now: any being that makes it a requirement to kiss its ass in order to avoid being fucking tortured forever, let alone any length of time, is a demon.

All of you who worship this being are devil-worshipers. You will pay for your evil.

Just out of curiosity, who will make those who worship the demon Christian god pay? Is there some other all-power sky king we don't know about who you believe has the power to punish them? Sounds very similar to Christianity: worship as I say or pay the price.

I see no more proof for your version of how life and existence works than I do for what the Christians believe.

 

[Mai72]

The op's assumptions are incorrect. There is no compact, there is no quid pro quo, there is no guarantee. God will judge you. I also understand these threads are not for people looking for enlightenment. They seem to be created for attention and those wishing to vent their anger and fear.

I didn't create this thread because I'm angry or fearful. If you talk to most Christians they will give you the same talk.

*Give yourself to God.
*If you don't you're going to Hell.
*Follow the rules of the bible, etc...

It's a very touchy subject because most people have fragile egos. They can't look at this discussion on both ends. It's either I'm right and you're completely wrong, and the discussion is over. Christians aren't the only ones. Muslims are just as bad.

 

[Thebobo]

Show me one time someone posted on ATOT promoting their religion and denouncing atheism.

You just did silly.

Personally I worship his Shadow

 

[Ventanni]

I just don't get it.

A guy like Hitler who started WW2 and almost wiped out the Jews could go to Heaven if he just admitted his sins and found God before he died.

Yet, a school teacher who devoted her life to the betterment of society by educating the young could find herself in Hell if she never committed herself to God before her death.

Hitler- Heaven
Teacher who did everything morally right- Hell

Seems about right.

If you are genuinely seeking an honest response, then I will give it a shot.

We've been taught in some capacity or another that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden because they made a mistake and sinned. This has lead many to grow up thinking that their value and their worthiness of being loved and/or saved is based on how well they perform. That couldn't be further from the truth. The reality, and you can go to Genesis 3 and read for yourself, is that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden because they didn't take ownership of their sins. Eve blamed the serpent. Adam blamed Eve. God looked at them both and was like, "I know where this is going..." So when we repent of our sins, it's not bowing down like a slave and declaring that God is your master. God doesn't want slaves, and he doesn't want us living with a slave mindset. In fact, God wants us to live like royalty. Repentance is a choice. It's saying, "I'm going to take ownership of myself align myself with not only who God is, but who He created me to be." That's when relationship with God is established, and since God is a good and loving God who wants us to be the absolute very best that we were created for, it makes for a pretty wild and amazing ride.

So going back to your original question of why Hitler would go to heaven and the school teacher would go to hell, we need to look at it from a different angle. Leave the performance side out of it. In your scenario, Hitler lived his life and turned back to God near his end. The school teacher rejected God their whole life, and may have not. If we live our whole lives thinking that our actions could never possibly be forgiven, then we don't know God. And additionally, if we live our whole lives thinking we're unworthy of being loved, then we're believing a lie.

You are worthy. You are loved. You are made good. You are made for great things.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I didn't create this thread because I'm angry or fearful. If you talk to most Christians they will give you the same talk.

*Give yourself to God.
*If you don't you're going to Hell.
*Follow the rules of the bible, etc...

It's a very touchy subject because most people have fragile egos. They can't look at this discussion on both ends. It's either I'm right and you're completely wrong, and the discussion is over. Christians aren't the only ones. Muslims are just as bad.

You've been talking to the wrong Christians. No one can condemn another to Hell because only God judges. The Bible is a guide not a contract. There is nothing wrong with questioning faith. That said, you must first have faith. You have to take that initial leap.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You used a lot of words, but it's referred to as cheap grace.

A hailmary at the end of your life won't change a thing.

So that's hitler.

The school teacher is gonna burn too. Good works won't get you in.

God sure does run a elitist heaven, for those whose only purpose in life is pure unadulterated praise and worship for him, while demanding humility from those same people.

The thing that always gets me is the George Carlin bit on churches... and the fact that they all NEED MONEY! All the things god can magically do, but somehow he just needs money to help spread his word!

 

[elitejp]

I didn't create this thread because I'm angry or fearful. If you talk to most Christians they will give you the same talk.

*Give yourself to God.
*If you don't you're going to Hell.
*Follow the rules of the bible, etc...

It's a very touchy subject because most people have fragile egos. They can't look at this discussion on both ends. It's either I'm right and you're completely wrong, and the discussion is over. Christians aren't the only ones. Muslims are just as bad.

Some of those rules actually arent half bad. I know everyone starts taking the old testament laws and rules out of context and thats exactly what Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for doing. So what Jesus begins to do is just teach basic principles of being kind to one another.
One thing that I have applied to my life is quickly asking others for forgiveness and saying im sorry. The fact is that even if the person I had an argument with or yelled at etc was 99% wrong that still leaves me with 1%. So I was wrong too. So im sorry, please forgive me.
If Christians lived by what Jesus taught then most people would find Christians very easy to get long with.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You've been talking to the wrong Christians. No one can condemn another to Hell because only God judges. The Bible is a guide not a contract. There is nothing wrong with questioning faith. That said, you must first have faith. You have to take that initial leap.

Unfotunately, those "wrong" Christians are widespread, and choose to interpret the bible anyways that suits them.

And since it's all based on belief, it's not something that's going to be factual, logical, or suitable to people who will question more than just faith.

 

[JM Aggie08]

Whenever these anti-religious threads pop up, I always think that I'd rather be tag-teamed by Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons missionaries coming to my house to convert me rather than deal with atheists pat themselves on the back over how much smarter they are than religious folks.

+2

And then they inevitably lash out when posts such as yours are made (as seen above ).

 

[ch33zw1z]

+2

And then they inevitably lash out when posts such as yours are made (as seen above ).

So persecuted. This country is just horrible to Christians.

 

[JM Aggie08]

So persecuted. This country is just horrible to Christians.

I don't recall referencing Christians anywhere in my post...I mean it's right above yours, and I simply don't see that word mentioned.

Other atheists, agnostics, polytheists, folks who worship cats -- I think really anyone can be annoyed by the behavior that makoda described.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Unfotunately, those "wrong" Christians are widespread, and choose to interpret the bible anyways that suits them.

And since it's all based on belief, it's not something that's going to be factual, logical, or suitable to people who will question more than just faith.

You can lead a horse to water...

Faith is not logical but, it is rewarding. The problem I have with those who worship logic is they don't see it is a tool amongst many. On the other hand, I believe there are many paths to God.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I don't recall referencing Christians anywhere in my post...I mean it's right above yours, and I simply don't see that word mentioned.

Other atheists, agnostics, polytheists, folks who worship cats -- I think really anyone can be annoyed by the behavior that makoda described.

You inferred Christians, by responding to an obvious Christian.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You can lead a horse to water...

Faith is not logical but, it is rewarding. The problem I have with those who worship logic is they don't see it is a tool amongst many. On the other hand, I believe there are many paths to God.

There's no worship when it comes to logic. Worship is defined as adoration for a deity.

Keeping logic and reason at the forefront of thought and perspective is not worship.

That being said, I understand why people choose religion or belief over logic. But to that I would say, fuck your feels.

 

[pete6032]

I just don't get it.

A guy like Hitler who started WW2 and almost wiped out the Jews could go to Heaven if he just admitted his sins and found God before he died.

Yet, a school teacher who devoted her life to the betterment of society by educating the young could find herself in Hell if she never committed herself to God before her death.

Hitler- Heaven
Teacher who did everything morally right- Hell

Seems about right.

Christians believe that salvation is not earned through the works you do here on earth, but rather through having faith in God and faith that Jesus died for the wrongdoings of believers (sins). These sins would otherwise condemn us to death if we did not believe in Jesus dying for them. In Ephesians 2:8-10, the Apostle Paul says "8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

At the same time, Paul makes it very clear that a sign of a believer having true faith includes living a life that reflects that faith through good works. See James 2:14-17. "14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

There's no worship when it comes to logic. Worship is defined as adoration for a deity.

Keeping logic and reason at the forefront of thought and perspective is not worship.

That being said, I understand why people choose religion or belief over logic. But to that I would say, fuck your feels.

So, you simply deny there are any other tools than logic? How fanatical of you.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So, you simply deny there are any other tools than logic? How fanatical of you.

No sir, I'm open to many things, because we're human and subject to such like empathy, compassion, love, hate, etc..

Trying to paint logic as equivalent to a fanatic is a tool used by people to try and claim it's all the same. Nice try though.