No sir, I'm open to many things, because we're human and subject to such like empathy, compassion, love, hate, etc..
Trying to paint logic as equivalent to a fanatic is a tool used by people to try and claim it's all the same. Nice try though.
Yup. I identify myself as agnostic....as in we don't have all the answers, but we can still look for answers.
Deism is tough, as I feel overall it's a negative to the human race. As evidenced by the world we live in...slow to change, close minded in many ways, and generally people get into their comfort zone and don't want to be bothered with new ideas.
Technically most things in the history of the world have killed more people than religion, like old age, cancer, disease, accidents.How about the fact that nothing in the history of the world has killed more people than religion? Hopefully that's negative enough for most people.
To the OP.
The premise is simple. Neither individual lived a completely moral life (perfect life). The school teacher lived a good life but not without wrong doing. Hitler lived a terrible life with much wrong doing. The crutch being that neither was perfect. In your example Hitler before dying admits that he lived an immoral life and asks for forgiveness accepting that Jesus paid the substitution, therefore he isnt trying to make it to heaven based upon his (hitlers) own good works but rather based on what Jesus did.
The same goes for the school teacher who at death still continues to base her entering heaven on her good works. However her good works will never be good enough so she would never qualify.
The easiest illustration in what Jesus did can be likened to you committing a crime and having your brother (who has not committed any crime) talk to the judge and bear the penalty that you deserve. You did the wrong but he paid the penalty.
Ehh, people act on motive, and if that motive is steeped in religious dogma, yes it can be blamed. I'm not trying to pull a 'blame the gun manufacturer for the death' or anything, but if your religion, taught from birth from tribal/family alphas, says 'those people deserve to die for what they do/don't do' then yes, it can be blamed.Nothing has killed more people than religion? Iin the last 100 years that certainly isn't true. Stalin and The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution alone probably have more than all the wars. This isn't even adding in "minor" things like the Khmer Rouge. It's beyond idiotic to blame religion for the loss of life. The answer is people, people cause this loss of life.
If you are genuinely seeking an honest response, then I will give it a shot.
We've been taught in some capacity or another that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden because they made a mistake and sinned. This has lead many to grow up thinking that their value and their worthiness of being loved and/or saved is based on how well they perform. That couldn't be further from the truth. The reality, and you can go to Genesis 3 and read for yourself, is that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden because they didn't take ownership of their sins. Eve blamed the serpent. Adam blamed Eve. God looked at them both and was like, "I know where this is going..." So when we repent of our sins, it's not bowing down like a slave and declaring that God is your master. God doesn't want slaves, and he doesn't want us living with a slave mindset. In fact, God wants us to live like royalty. Repentance is a choice. It's saying, "I'm going to take ownership of myself align myself with not only who God is, but who He created me to be." That's when relationship with God is established, and since God is a good and loving God who wants us to be the absolute very best that we were created for, it makes for a pretty wild and amazing ride.
So going back to your original question of why Hitler would go to heaven and the school teacher would go to hell, we need to look at it from a different angle. Leave the performance side out of it. In your scenario, Hitler lived his life and turned back to God near his end. The school teacher rejected God their whole life, and may have not. If we live our whole lives thinking that our actions could never possibly be forgiven, then we don't know God. And additionally, if we live our whole lives thinking we're unworthy of being loved, then we're believing a lie.
You are worthy. You are loved. You are made good. You are made for great things.
Point being, you can't determine or judge anyone until you open the door.
Building houses with accessible front doors is really just a bad idea.
You inferred Christians, by responding to an obvious Christian.
What was your inference then?You falsely assumed my inference.
I just don't get it.
A guy like Hitler who started WW2 and almost wiped out the Jews could go to Heaven if he just admitted his sins and found God before he died.
Yet, a school teacher who devoted her life to the betterment of society by educating the young could find herself in Hell if she never committed herself to God before her death.
Hitler- Heaven
Teacher who did everything morally right- Hell
Seems about right.
Just out of curiosity, who will make those who worship the demon Christian god pay? Is there some other all-power sky king we don't know about who you believe has the power to punish them? Sounds very similar to Christianity: worship as I say or pay the price.
I see no more proof for your version of how life and existence works than I do for what the Christians believe.
If you are genuinely seeking an honest response, then I will give it a shot.
We've been taught in some capacity or another that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden because they made a mistake and sinned. This has lead many to grow up thinking that their value and their worthiness of being loved and/or saved is based on how well they perform. That couldn't be further from the truth. The reality, and you can go to Genesis 3 and read for yourself, is that Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden because they didn't take ownership of their sins. Eve blamed the serpent. Adam blamed Eve. God looked at them both and was like, "I know where this is going..." So when we repent of our sins, it's not bowing down like a slave and declaring that God is your master. God doesn't want slaves, and he doesn't want us living with a slave mindset. In fact, God wants us to live like royalty. Repentance is a choice. It's saying, "I'm going to take ownership of myself align myself with not only who God is, but who He created me to be." That's when relationship with God is established, and since God is a good and loving God who wants us to be the absolute very best that we were created for, it makes for a pretty wild and amazing ride.
So going back to your original question of why Hitler would go to heaven and the school teacher would go to hell, we need to look at it from a different angle. Leave the performance side out of it. In your scenario, Hitler lived his life and turned back to God near his end. The school teacher rejected God their whole life, and may have not. If we live our whole lives thinking that our actions could never possibly be forgiven, then we don't know God. And additionally, if we live our whole lives thinking we're unworthy of being loved, then we're believing a lie.
You are worthy. You are loved. You are made good. You are made for great things.
Yup. I identify myself as agnostic....as in we don't have all the answers, but we can still look for answers.
Deism is tough, as I feel overall it's a negative to the human race. As evidenced by the world we live in...slow to change, close minded in many ways, and generally people get into their comfort zone and don't want to be bothered with new ideas.
I'm not sure it even matters anymore. As long as people identify themselves by the groups they are a part of their will always be an us vs them mentality. We could remove all religion and the negative things you see in them would still pop up elsewhere. Just look at politics Right vs Left.
What was your inference then?
If my conclusion was wrong, then I didn't interpret the evidence correctly.
There's no false assumption involved with inference here, so feel free to explain what you meant when replying to a Christian the way you did.
LOLiez. Sounds like something satan himself would say.The only guilty party here is the one who put the Tree and the Snake in the Garden, knowing that Adam/Eve would fail.
I applaud the OP for getting it right.
I agree, one individual you profiled is more responsible for ruining our earthly lives. But let's not get hung up on that, if we're talking eternity. Man's eyes are not God's eyes - i.e. eternally speaking, your works can't suffice to redeem you, so let's just throw them out of the equation. Thank God. It just shows the magnitude of God's grace, and the efficacy of Jesus' sacrifice of himself. Apostle Paul was initially an avowed Christian-killer, but God transformed him into that which he hated - a Christian, and used him for good.
God is unwilling that any should perish, but that all come to repentance. Even Hitler. He is patient and long-suffering. (Which is why some end-time prophecies regarding humanity's fate have yet to be fulfilled.) But it's totally up each person, to Hitler, and the good schoolteacher to opt in or out. It certainly benefits all alive the sooner they opt in - the world becomes a better place. I think the OP recognizes this.
IMO, if Christianity were a man-concocted religion, it would weigh the earthly deeds more in determining individual fate. To man (like the OP) there are degrees of violations, degrees of corresponding punishment, and the possibility of self-redemption.
LOLiez. Sounds like something satan himself would say.
God is love, and wishes people (his creation) to choose to love and serve Him. Love is given, not taken. If humans were mind-controlled robots, where would be the virtue in doing what you are programmed to do? (Must ... obey ... God!)
Therefore sin (failure to meet God's standard) has to be a possibility, so God had to create/provide the opportunity, the choice, the Tree. Lucifer himself once got the choice. God couldn't demonstrate his power over sin, or his forgiveness and mercy, if sin didn't exist. How could we appreciate godliness, if ungodliness didn't exist? Adam and Eve sure didn't when the world was yet untainted by sin.
Its the incest aspect of it, man. Get in on the [family] action.Ever since I was discharged from the hospital and started telling my story people have been pushing me to take up Christianity at every turn. I have yet to experience anyone pushing atheism on me however.