This Christanity thing is confusing.

[slag]

Yes, and this is the consequence of free will. When one freely chooses to believe and do evil things, the change of circumstance and perceptive capability caused by leaving the material body results in painful, torturous awareness of those things and the effects they had on other people.

You may as well say "Nuh-uh, you WON'T go splat if you throw yourself off a building because Free Will!"

No, the laws of physics still applies, even with free will.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Free will is it's own discussion. For me, the concept of a omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent precludes the concept of free will.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Free will is it's own discussion. For me, the concept of a omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent precludes the concept of free will.

The problem with the Christian concept of "free will" is that they manage to talk out of both sides of their mouth on the subject. They believe that an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent god watches over them and protects them and that his will trumps the free will of us mere mortals. But when god fails (which he does 24/7/365) to actually follow through on that, then it's because we have free will and he won't get involved. I'd love to hear an intelligent, educated Christian (does such a thing even exist?) manage to explain how Christians manage to believe in both sides of that equation. Sadly, none has ever been able to do so.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I spent my youth in religion, and this topic was glossed over at best. It may have confused people hundreds or thousands of years ago, but our lives aren't lived in pure fear of hell anymore.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I spent my youth in religion, and this topic was glossed over at best. It may have confused people hundreds or thousands of years ago, but our lives aren't lived in pure fear of hell anymore.

Define "our lives". Your life, no. My life, no. But lots and lots and lots of lives really are lived in pure fear of hell. The phrase "God fearing" is very real. The people who claim to most devoutly follow the invisible mass murderer in the sky really are afraid of him and what he'll do to them if they step out of line. It's that fear that keeps them compliant and keeps them from asking questions about their faith.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yes, good point. By "our lives", I mean the West has far less to fear than ever.

I feel that's why the religious are so easily swayed with "War on _____". Since fear is the deep reasoning, after all else, for belief alone...it's part of the conditioning, indoctrination, and raw emotion associated with their beliefs.

 

[Darwin333]

well something like 95% of all atheists are the religion of their parents because that is what they were taught....

Most atheists and agnostics that I know, myself included, were brought up and used to be religious. I was Catholic, went through confirmation, was an altar boy for a while, and everything. I've even done something that very few Catholics have done, I've read the bible cover to cover twice. But yes, I used to be the religion of my parents because that is what I was taught and I was sent to Catholic school. Hell I had to learn it in order to pass the grade, we went to church weekly at school and then my parents would bring me again on Sunday.

 

[Thebobo]

Yea as a kid back before we moved overseas I was went to Presbyterian church every sunday, even went to sunday school and a Presbyterian church summer camp. Don't recall going to any church while overseas but I learned a little about Buddhism. By the time we came back to the states years later and I was weaned off religion and never looked back.

 

[luv2liv]

it's like Marvel's super heroes isnt it? the more questions you ask, the more confused you will be.
i thought Wolverine would live forever cause yknow he can heal n stuff. but in Logan, he looked 20 years older n actually died. im very confused!

 

[GagHalfrunt]

it's like Marvel's super heroes isnt it? the more questions you ask, the more confused you will be.
i thought Wolverine would live forever cause yknow he can heal n stuff. but in Logan, he looked 20 years older n actually died. im very confused!

It's really hard to come up with fantasy and keep things consistent. Whether it's comic books, epic fantasy like Tolkien or religious texts there are millions of stumbling blocks and places to trip up. It gets exponentially harder when you're doing it with hundreds or thousands of individual writers who each have their own ideas and agendas about that particular "reality". You can't get everybody on the same page and some material is bound to contradict other material.

That should be the real tip-off that an intelligent person would use to distinguish between man-made and truly divine. A god would be able to keep his own story straight. Once errors, contradictions and plot holes start getting introduced you have proof positive that it's written by fallible humans, not an infallible god.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Religion is worse than politics for bringing out the arrogant, theologically-illiterate morons. Mostly because actually getting into the nuts and bolts of, say, Christian theology is both incredibly tedious and full of more lawyerish gotchas than the tax code.

It's also not helped by the fact that it's the very definition of motivated reasoning. Not one believer in 100 is a competent apologist, which means 1% is the maximum number that could be swayed by counter-apologetics; the others simply do not have the ability to argue coherently about this, so once they've been indoctrinated it's too late.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

The problem with the Christian concept of "free will" is that they manage to talk out of both sides of their mouth on the subject. They believe that an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent god watches over them and protects them and that his will trumps the free will of us mere mortals. But when god fails (which he does 24/7/365) to actually follow through on that, then it's because we have free will and he won't get involved. I'd love to hear an intelligent, educated Christian (does such a thing even exist?) manage to explain how Christians manage to believe in both sides of that equation. Sadly, none has ever been able to do so.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism

As best I can tell, the above amounts to closing ones eyes and ears and shouting, "SHUT UP!! THEY'RE COMPATIBLE IF I SAY THEY'RE COMPATIBLE!!"

 

[GagHalfrunt]

As best I can tell, the above amounts to closing ones eyes and ears and shouting, "SHUT UP!! THEY'RE COMPATIBLE IF I SAY THEY'RE COMPATIBLE!!"

Exactly right.

 

[Ventanni]

No one punishes them or makes them pay; they do it to themselves. This is a natural law, just like gravity or the fine structure constant; when you leave the material body there are no more delusions.



This is gaslighting, emotionally-lead bullshit from start to finish.

First of all, the fruit Adam and Eve ate was...wait for it...from the Tree of what now? That's right, Knowledge of Good and Evil. Which means before they ate it, they couldn't...waaaaait for iiiiiit....know it was wrong to eat it.

Furthermore, your God is supposedly omniscient and absolutely-sovereign. This means he knew exactly what would happen when he put the fruit smack in the middle of the garden, and then decided to put a snake...a talking, four-legged snake...whom he know would tempt his creation...in the tree.

And then he absolutely pissed himself when he realized his creations ate the fruit, throwing a decidedly non-monotheistic hissy fit and saying "Behold, man has become as one of us, knowing good from evil."

What the hell was he scared of anyway? And who's "us?" Don't bullshit me and tell me "Elohim" was being used as the "majestic singular-plural;" that was El, who at this point had not been syncretized with Yahweh yet, cacking his cassock over the idea that his creations weren't just weird little flesh robots anymore.

Which of course goes against divine omniscience but fuck that, it's not like the core attributes of what it means to be God are important to any discussion of God, riiiiiiight?

And what "wild and amazing ride" are you talking about? There are only two destinies for humans according to your religion: spend eternity kissing El-Yahweh's ineffable ass in a heaven that, as per Revelation, looks like a cross between Trump Tower and the Borg Cube, or spend eternity--forever!--in literally unimaginable torture for not kissing said ass before death.

I say this with no irony whatsoever: Go to Hell. Go to that Hell you love so much. It's your Hell, you go there, and take your narcissistic, genocidal Bronze Age throwback with you. If any being could possibly even be barely imagined to deserve eternal torment, it's this demon you worship as a God.

You alright there buddy?

 

[kage69]

I learned a long time ago not to expect a cult of human sacrifice to make sense.

Debating the minutia of its orthodoxy, or trying to make Iron Age peasant thinking apply to the 21st century is a fool's errand.

And just look at the fools proving it.

 

[pete6032]

. I'd love to hear an intelligent, educated Christian (does such a thing even exist?) manage to explain how Christians manage to believe in both sides of that equation.

No, you don't. Based on your posting history it is clear that the only person whose thoughts you want to hear are your own.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Aw, he mad.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

No, you don't. Based on your posting history it is clear that the only person whose thoughts you want to hear are your own.

In other words, you can't. Just admit your own failures, it will set you free.

 

[IronWing]

Understanding Christianity is easy with this great new tool!

 

[BD231]

Its clearer to me now more than ever that God is a female.

Either give her 10% of your paycheck or you go to hell.

 

[Engineer]

Its clearer to me now more than ever that God is a female.

Either give her 10% of your paycheck or you go to hell.

10%? 10%? I believe you left out three zeros and a decimal point.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

You alright there buddy?

Oh, yes. A few billion other people aren't, though. Your concern is noted.

 

[renz20003]

Nvm

 

[kage69]

Aw, he mad.

Hrmmm. This post makes me think I ought to turn off Ignore in order to savor something. Decisions decisions...

 

[MtnMan]

The monster under the bed (or in the sky) is a fear learned in childhood, and never outgrown by those without the power of rational thought.