This Christanity thing is confusing.

[BudAshes]

Well, "you" do die, if I understand this right, in the sense that we're supposed to just sort of dissolve back into "God" or "the Source." Then again, "you" die every time the body does, and we're not supposed to reincarnate; it's like getting left back a grade.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Oh no, only the barest outline. But it sounds like this is all I need to know at the moment.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Medium, one of the few I've ever met who seems not to be a fraud...

Please ask said medium why he/she has never collected the money from the James Randi Foundation. Not a fraud = KACHING!! And don't bother replying here. The medium should know who I am without you mentioning it and should be able to get the answer to me through whatever paranormal cell plan they prefer.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Hilarious, Mr. Halfrunt. I've been wondering the same things myself but it turns out, if you can imagine this, apparently being a medium isn't the same thing as instant, global, omniscient telepathy. How odd. It's almost like that's a strawman.

 

[disappoint]

I do not like the idea of existence continuing on after the death of the physical body.

Why not? You'd get to be immortal.

And since it's not, I have to prepare to fight and survive for an indefinite period of time. There will be no rest for me.

Why would you have to fight for survival if you're immortal? If you would want to rest, why not just do so?

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Have you considered for even one moment that immortality would be a sentence of eternal Hell?

Any mind that is not itself infinite would, at some point, experience everything it can. This point would by definition be before the end of eternity. Even if said mind was somehow ever-magnified and expanded, it could only asymptotically approach infinity.

At some point further out (yet, you note, not actually any closer to infinity than the previous) you'd still hit a limit. This is for all experiences, meaning all permutations of all themes you can think of and all those you can't. Still no closer to infinity than before. Boredom becomes infinite. You've seen and done it all, including eventually taking pleasure in the kind of torture that would scare a Hellraiser Cenobite, and for basically the same reasons as them.

Don't even try that "heaven is infinite blissful experiences" crap; no such thing as infinitely different experiences for any finite mind, however large, blissful or otherwise. And if experiences begin to repeat, the effect is essentially reincarnation, an admission that eternal continuity of consciousness isn't that great after all. And then you're like a skipping gramophone record, eternally running in circles. Some reward.

This is another reason I just sigh and shake my head when hearing Muslims or Christians talk about paradise; their imaginations are so completely stunted and limited that the above never even occurs to them. Even the ones who figure out that spending eternity kissing Yahweh's ass is a raw deal wander off into some nebulous "I don't know what'll happen but I'm sure it'll be okay" tangent rather than think critically about these things.

This is why our end goal has to be annihilation of the ego, but in a positive sense rather than a negative one. This is why the end goal is to sublimate back into "Source" or "God," whatever you wish to call the ground of it all. Do you see now?

 

[Mai72]

Have you considered for even one moment that immortality would be a sentence of eternal Hell?

Any mind that is not itself infinite would, at some point, experience everything it can. This point would by definition be before the end of eternity. Even if said mind was somehow ever-magnified and expanded, it could only asymptotically approach infinity.

At some point further out (yet, you note, not actually any closer to infinity than the previous) you'd still hit a limit. This is for all experiences, meaning all permutations of all themes you can think of and all those you can't. Still no closer to infinity than before. Boredom becomes infinite. You've seen and done it all, including eventually taking pleasure in the kind of torture that would scare a Hellraiser Cenobite, and for basically the same reasons as them.

Don't even try that "heaven is infinite blissful experiences" crap; no such thing as infinitely different experiences for any finite mind, however large, blissful or otherwise. And if experiences begin to repeat, the effect is essentially reincarnation, an admission that eternal continuity of consciousness isn't that great after all. And then you're like a skipping gramophone record, eternally running in circles. Some reward.

This is another reason I just sigh and shake my head when hearing Muslims or Christians talk about paradise; their imaginations are so completely stunted and limited that the above never even occurs to them. Even the ones who figure out that spending eternity kissing Yahweh's ass is a raw deal wander off into some nebulous "I don't know what'll happen but I'm sure it'll be okay" tangent rather than think critically about these things.

This is why our end goal has to be annihilation of the ego, but in a positive sense rather than a negative one. This is why the end goal is to sublimate back into "Source" or "God," whatever you wish to call the ground of it all. Do you see now?

It seems that the ego plays a big part in what we think of an afterlife. I was raised Catholic and I was told that heaven is going to be like it is here on earth. The little home with all your friends gathered at the table cracking jokes. I was at a funeral a few months ago and the dead guys best friend was saying "he's up in heaven now talking to everyone because he loved to speak to strangers." I'm thinking no he's not. He's dead. Hey, if it helps him cope with the passing of his dear friend then I can understand. I just think it's silly that many people are conditioned to believe that heaven works like that.

It's one of the reasons why I gravitated to Buddhism in the last few years. It's not really a religion though. But, I do treat it as such. And, if you've ever been to SE Asia you'd see that most people there treat Buddhism as a religion.

The Four Noble Truths:

1) Life is suffering.
-In the West, we are taught to ignore suffering. That it's not something that we should talk about, but the truth is there is suffering in our world. To ignore it is at our own expense.

2) The truth of the cause of suffering.
-Instead of looking inward, many of us are looking outward to find meaning. But, this never satisfies us. Many are left frustrated that the world isn't bending to our demands. This is also where attachment to our way of thinking. We become slaves to our mind. To materalism.

3) The truth of the end of suffering.
-Detachment is key here, because attachment is the root of suffering. So, how do we end suffering? By detaching and looking inward. This is why I love love love mediation. It forces me to look inward which is a very difficult thing to do.

4) The truth of the path that frees us from suffering
-You could call it being enlightened or awaken. It's the path that most people never find. Most people go thru life ignorant. It's not just Western culture but the world. They go thru life in a derp state. Never awakened to what's possible.

Many people who say they are Christain or Muslim are stuck in the suffering phase. Attached to their religion. That everyone else be damned. Well there are 4200 religions practiced worldwide today. Before the Europeans inhabited America and slaughtered the native population they had their own religion. It wasn't Christanity.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Yup, I liked a lot of Buddhism, but it ends up being mostly torture porn, full of hells (narakas) with residence times in the trillions to quintillions of years. There are some good ideas in it, but other parts of it don't make sense or simply don't happen.

Humans do not, for example, reincarnate as animals. "Hell" is not a rebirth, and not even Hitler would spend trillions-plus years in it, though it's not unreasonable to suspect he'll be in that state for thousands of years. Neither is "hungry ghost;" that's simply another kind of being-earthbound. There is no Asura realm, either. And I suspect the Daeva/"Gods" realm is mostly humans who've advanced somewhat but either eventually need to reincarnate, or who won't be coming back but are embarking on the next phase of their journey.

 

[Mai72]

Yup, I liked a lot of Buddhism, but it ends up being mostly torture porn, full of hells (narakas) with residence times in the trillions to quintillions of years. There are some good ideas in it, but other parts of it don't make sense or simply don't happen.

Humans do not, for example, reincarnate as animals. "Hell" is not a rebirth, and not even Hitler would spend trillions-plus years in it, though it's not unreasonable to suspect he'll be in that state for thousands of years. Neither is "hungry ghost;" that's simply another kind of being-earthbound. There is no Asura realm, either. And I suspect the Daeva/"Gods" realm is mostly humans who've advanced somewhat but either eventually need to reincarnate, or who won't be coming back but are embarking on the next phase of their journey.

The hungry ghost. Is that when relatives put food out so their dead loved ones can feed themselves? I noticed in Thailand that some people will put plates of food out on the sidewalk. Thought it was the oddest thing.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Hilarious, Mr. Halfrunt. I've been wondering the same things myself but it turns out, if you can imagine this, apparently being a medium isn't the same thing as instant, global, omniscient telepathy. How odd. It's almost like that's a strawman.

Turns out being a medium is like being a broken clock. You get two things right in 86,400 attempts and some suckers will view that as special.

Why hasn't ANY medium won Powerball, ever? Why hasn't ANY medium collected the million smackeroos from James Randi ever? Why hasn't ANY medium broken the bank at a Vegas casino ever? Their power would not have to work instantly, globally or omnisciently, it would only have to work once, is a small way over a short time in a small area. Once.

How odd, it's almost like they're fakes preying on the monumentally gullible.

Let me ask you something. Let's say you were a real psychic and your power didn't work instantly, globally or omnisciently, but instead was just a brief flash once or twice a day. Would you open up a shop on Hollywood Boulevard hoping that your rare moment of magic occurred when somebody came into your office with $50 or would you be standing in a casino with $10,000 in hand ready to plunk it down on #31 when the spirits commanded? Take your time, feel free to contact a psychic if you don't know the answer.

 

[Thebobo]

Lol that reminds me when a while back my former boss had a floppy that he swore had a program that would pick the winning lotto numbers. Not to bright this man was.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

The hungry ghost. Is that when relatives put food out so their dead loved ones can feed themselves? I noticed in Thailand that some people will put plates of food out on the sidewalk. Thought it was the oddest thing.

Hungry ghost ("preta," direct evolution of "pra ita" or simply "[one who has] gone before") is a Buddhist evolution of the idea of a simple wandering spirit from earlier, possibly pre-Vedic religions.

It's one of the six canonical Buddhist rebirths. The main difference between a preta and someone in one of the hells is the pretas can wander rather than being confined to this or that torture. They're said to have "stomachs the size of mountains, mouths the size of pinholes" and be always suffering from hunger, thirst, and other bodily desires.

Hindus and Buddhists love them some torture porn. Most westerners have no idea how much sadistic shit those two religions include. It's almost as bad as those maudlin Hispanic Catholics.

 

[Darwin333]

Hilarious, Mr. Halfrunt. I've been wondering the same things myself but it turns out, if you can imagine this, apparently being a medium isn't the same thing as instant, global, omniscient telepathy. How odd. It's almost like that's a strawman.

He does have a point though, James Randi is offering a cool million dollars to anyone who can prove they have paranormal abilities. Might I ask, did this medium charge you for her services and if so how much?

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

No, not a thing. I would have been very suspicious if she had.

And Mr. Halfrunt does not have a point, because he is confusing specific instances of channeling with global, omniscient telepathy. They are not the same thing; I am given to understand what is happening here is something like electromagnetic entrainment of two antennae.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

No, not a thing. I would have been very suspicious if she had.

And Mr. Halfrunt does not have a point, because he is confusing specific instances of channeling with global, omniscient telepathy. They are not the same thing; I am given to understand what is happening here is something like electromagnetic entrainment of two antennae.

What's happening is trapping oppositely spinning entangled quarks in a superconducting quantum vortex where the elastic properties of the polymer containment shell create a negative inducement to shed deuterium ions which form a matrix doorway to other planes of existence. How can you believe this shit if you don't even understand the simple science behind it?

Why hasn't your, or ANY medium EVER used "specific instances of channeling" to come up with the winning lottery numbers or a series of spins on a roulette wheel or ever demonstrated under controlled circumstances that it was real and walked off with a cool million from James Randi? Their power would not have to be global, omniscient telepathy, they'd just have to come up with one thing at one time in one place. And yet no psychic ever has managed it.

Why are they talking to gullible suckers instead of standing in a casino, a sports book or in front of a lottery machine? Why are they wasting "specific instances of channeling" on idiots who believe in nonsense instead of using those brief flashes of supernatural insight to enrich themselves? Simple question, why can't you answer it?

Hey, and why is it that psychics ALWAYS manage to achieve these mystical "specific instances of channeling" when paying clients walk in? Seems that those "specific instances of channeling" are pretty punctual when a sucker with a check is sitting in front of them, but maddeningly elusive in Vegas and Monte Carlo. Those "specific instances of channeling" seem to occur regularly EVERY SINGLE TIME any wannabeliever asks them anything. In the history of the world has a single psychic ever sent away a paying mark because the spirit world was not providing "specific instances of channeling" at that particular time?

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Mr. Halfrunt, your entire post is speaking of conditions opposite to the ones I described.

I am getting a little tired of pointing this out. No payment was involved, channeling is not the same thing as telepathy (and lotto machines have no minds to read anyway), and this woman accessed information I myself did not know--but later corroborated, right down to the word, with older family members who did know my relative. Halfway across the country and more than 30 years after the fact.

Look, like the saying goes, when you've eliminated the impossible, whatever remains may be improbable, but that's what you got.

One more time: 1,100 miles and 30+ years away, never met me before, saw through the ruse I was trying to pull on her, described the physical appearance of one dead relative and the mental habits of another, including a specific turn of phrase I had never heard before but was later able to verify with people who did know him. And on top of that, he (though her) was able to offer pertinent advice, including knowing that discussions about religion and philosophy with my parents went nowhere and why they went nowhere.

Why is this upsetting you so much? Your reactions go far beyond simply disbelief; the venom and force of them are betraying a heavy emotional investment. This does not require you to change your religion or adopt one if you don't have one. I have no religion either.

 

[J.Wilkins]

What gets me is the idea of an all knowing God coupled with free will for humans.

That is an incoherent concept as absolute knowledge about all future rules out any changes to that future which rules out anyone ever making a choice.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Mr. Halfrunt, your entire post is speaking of conditions opposite to the ones I described.

I am getting a little tired of pointing this out. No payment was involved, channeling is not the same thing as telepathy (and lotto machines have no minds to read anyway), and this woman accessed information I myself did not know--but later corroborated, right down to the word, with older family members who did know my relative. Halfway across the country and more than 30 years after the fact.

Look, like the saying goes, when you've eliminated the impossible, whatever remains may be improbable, but that's what you got.

One more time: 1,100 miles and 30+ years away, never met me before, saw through the ruse I was trying to pull on her, described the physical appearance of one dead relative and the mental habits of another, including a specific turn of phrase I had never heard before but was later able to verify with people who did know him. And on top of that, he (though her) was able to offer pertinent advice, including knowing that discussions about religion and philosophy with my parents went nowhere and why they went nowhere.

Why is this upsetting you so much? Your reactions go far beyond simply disbelief; the venom and force of them are betraying a heavy emotional investment. This does not require you to change your religion or adopt one if you don't have one. I have no religion either.

So VERY many tales of this that I've heard and yet when tested not one of them pan out.

Next time, get the person to take the one million paranormal challenge and give you 10K if they pass.

As to your own ridiculous faith in this .... well there is one born every minute I guess.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

I love you too, ya Limey 'ampton =P

But really...reverse Pascal's Wager here. The very worst case is the hard materialists are right (and I was hoping for this for so long). But if not, you still don't really lose, if you think about it.

 

[Ruptga]

I love you too, ya Limey 'ampton =P

But really...reverse Pascal's Wager here. The very worst case is the hard materialists are right (and I was hoping for this for so long). But if not, you still don't really lose, if you think about it.

It's not really reversed, you're suggesting we should invest the only thing we know we have because of the possibility that one something (in an uncountable number of somethings) unknown and unknowable isn't bullshit. I'll just hang on to the only thing I know I have.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

And that's fine too. There's no vengeful egomaniac waiting to throw you into eternal Hellfire for not kissing its ass. "God" is probably the wrong word here since it's not an egoic being the way most religions think.

Just keep an open mind and if you wake up one day and suddenly everyone ignores you or you see your own body or something like that, consider the possibility that you "died." It'll make things a lot easier.