Discussion This has come thru my mind a few days ago, and it made me possibly think of the possiblity and outcome if it were to happen.

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,397
709
136
Both Sununu and Hogan are moderates who are Republican governors in states that normaly would vote Democrat for governor. With the possibility of Trump not being sent behind bars, and thus running for re-election, and the new state election laws in the country, I could only think of one way that Biden could easily win 2024.

Obviously if Sununu or Hogan ran in the Republican primary, they would both loose to Trump. But what would happen if they both ran, one for Pres and the other as VP, in a new political party they create together (similar to what Ross Perot did in 1992 and 1996). Would the votes split enough for Biden to win?
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,363
7,016
136
Both Sununu and Hogan are moderates who are Republican governors in states that normaly would vote Democrat for governor. With the possibility of Trump not being sent behind bars, and thus running for re-election, and the new state election laws in the country, I could only think of one way that Biden could easily win 2024.

Obviously if Sununu or Hogan ran in the Republican primary, they would both loose to Trump. But what would happen if they both ran, one for Pres and the other as VP, in a new political party they create together (similar to what Ross Perot did in 1992 and 1996). Would the votes split enough for Biden to win?

You don't get it do you?

The most reliable votes are Republican votes. After all who else will appeal to the racist crowd?

Any 3rd party platform just looks to dilute the opposition (dem vote). Happened with Gore in 2000 and Clinton in 2016.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,612
5,308
136
You don't get it do you?

The most reliable votes are Republican votes. After all who else will appeal to the racist crowd?

Any 3rd party platform just looks to dilute the opposition (dem vote). Happened with Gore in 2000 and Clinton in 2016.
What about the crazy Texas midget a few years back? He was republican.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,711
34,590
136
What about the crazy Texas midget a few years back? He was republican.

Perot was an anomaly but not in the end a meaningful one as every analysis I've read about that election indicates the outcome would have been the same.

The question is would a moderate republican 3rd party candidate syphon votes from Trump or Biden. At this point I think the latter since a lot of those people already voted for Biden in 2020.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,612
5,308
136
Perot was an anomaly but not in the end a meaningful one as every analysis I've read about that election indicates the outcome would have been the same.

The question is would a moderate republican 3rd party candidate syphon votes from Trump or Biden. At this point I think the latter since a lot of those people already voted for Biden in 2020.
I don't have an opinion as I don't pay attention to who votes and what is the trigger issue. Simply based on the people I talk to every day in a very liberal area it seems like just about any moderate candidate would do well.

The Q crew is murdering the republication party. I don't know why this asshole has become an oracle to so many people, but their faith in him is unshakeable. I've chatted with a few of them and their devotion is absolute, and more than a little religious.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,711
34,590
136
I don't have an opinion as I don't pay attention to who votes and what is the trigger issue. Simply based on the people I talk to every day in a very liberal area it seems like just about any moderate candidate would do well.

The alignment of the groups that make up the Democratic Party electorally reward moderation, which is how Biden secured the nomination. The groups that decide the GOP primary at this point are set up to reward immoderation.

The Q crew is murdering the republication party. I don't know why this asshole has become an oracle to so many people, but their faith in him is unshakeable. I've chatted with a few of them and their devotion is absolute, and more than a little religious.

The growing conspiracy mindedness of the GOP is going to probably destroy the country sooner or later.
 
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crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,546
2,138
146
A third party has even less chance now than in years past, the polarization of the electorate is too extreme. Also I don't think Biden will be able to run in two years time, his decline is unfortunately accelerating.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,301
10,800
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A third party has even less chance now than in years past, the polarization of the electorate is too extreme. Also I don't think Biden will be able to run in two years time, his decline is unfortunately accelerating.

I agree.... and if any 3rd party does make the attempt it won't be the Maga-Qtard Republicans who change their votes.

And much younger/stronger men than Joe Biden have been taken down by the constant stress of the oval-office. Being fair however I have NOT actually noticed him appearing in any worse shape then when he first took office despite being nearly 2 years older.
 
Last edited:

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,363
7,016
136
Poll needs an "OP is a raging moron" option.

OP is still approaching threads from logical point of view but America is not logical.

And Dem voters are very fickle. Especially Gen X. Fuckers are turning into Fascists from Trumpanzees. Boomers certainly wont' help us. It's only the Millenials and Gen Z but cynisism and apathy are our worst enemies and the Republicans best friends..
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,822
8,296
136
I agree.... and if any 3rd party does make the attempt it won't be the Maga-Qtard Republicans who change their votes.

And much younger/stronger men than Joe Biden have been taken down by the constant stress of the oval-office. Being fair however I have NOT actually noticed him appearing in any worse shape then when he first took office despite being nearly 2 years older.
IMO Biden's not deteriorating as fast as Dump did. Dump had no moorings to begin with, no keel, no rudder, he was adrift in a storm the whole time. Biden knows who to listen to, has appointed able people. His wife is an asset. He appears reasonably healthy. IMO Dump is one shove from the bottom of his grave, politically speaking, no matter how they try to package him.
 

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,397
709
136
OP is still approaching threads from logical point of view but America is not logical.

And Dem voters are very fickle. Especially Gen X. Fuckers are turning into Fascists from Trumpanzees. Boomers certainly wont' help us. It's only the Millenials and Gen Z but cynisism and apathy are our worst enemies and the Republicans best friends..
Thank you.

Talking about young people, did you know that the two youngest presidents of the US (Calvin Coolidge and JFK) were considered great presidents. I think Democrats should put up a 35 year old in w024 and try to push this fact that age does not matter. In fact the previous and current presidency has started to put into question the claim that older people make good presidents.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,301
10,800
136
IDK..... I was relatively clueless compared to now when I was 35. Didn't realize it back then though and that's the issue with inexperience.



Fortunately there's quite a bit of ground in between 35 and 79.
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,359
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IDK..... I was relatively clueless compared to now when I was 35. Didn't realize it back then though and that's the issue with inexperience.
I still have plenty to learn and experience, but I feel the same way about the difference from 25 to 45. Lot of starry-eyed hopes and naivety in hindsight...being 20/20 and whatnot, heh.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,363
7,016
136
Thank you.

Talking about young people, did you know that the two youngest presidents of the US (Calvin Coolidge and JFK) were considered great presidents. I think Democrats should put up a 35 year old in w024 and try to push this fact that age does not matter. In fact the previous and current presidency has started to put into question the claim that older people make good presidents.

BTW you might better understand it from this viewpoint..

Look at Modi. The guy's an idiot, yet he's winning elections left and right appealing to hateful nationalism.

And yet Congress despite its good social programs can't do shit.

Moreover all you see on TV channels are praise of Modi and you hear people regurgitate garbage..

People aren't logical

And it pisses others off like their votes don't make a difference.

Same thing applies here in the states.

But the difference is healthcare is actually important to a lot of the people. That alone saves dems a lot or else they would have nothing.

I'm in New York and it wouldn't surprise me if a Republican won the state or NYC mayorship again soon because of dems soft on crime stance. It's just we don't wanna go full retard.
 
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Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
Thank you.

Talking about young people, did you know that the two youngest presidents of the US (Calvin Coolidge and JFK) were considered great presidents. I think Democrats should put up a 35 year old in w024 and try to push this fact that age does not matter. In fact the previous and current presidency has started to put into question the claim that older people make good presidents.
May as well, that's what Republicans are going to do with DeSantis -- if they're smart.
 

Amol S.

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,397
709
136
BTW you might better understand it from this viewpoint..

Look at Modi. The guy's an idiot, yet he's winning elections left and right appealing to hateful nationalism.

And yet Congress despite its good social programs can't do shit.

Moreover all you see on TV channels are praise of Modi and you hear people regurgitate garbage..

People aren't logical

And it pisses others off like their votes don't make a difference.

Same thing applies here in the states.

But the difference is healthcare is actually important to a lot of the people. That alone saves dems a lot or else they would have nothing.

I'm in New York and it wouldn't surprise me if a Republican won the state or NYC mayorship again soon because of dems soft on crime stance. It's just we don't wanna go full retard.
I remember a family friend saying they voted for Eric Adams, only because he was a former police commissioner, and would do something about crime.

As for the no full retard problem, New Yorker's should tell and show support for, Meile Rockeffeller, or Mark Rockeffeller, or Allison Whipple Rockeffeller, or Elizabeth Dewey Grattan, to run for mayor of NYC in 2025.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,582
7,809
136
The US has a first-past-the-post voting system almost everywhere, so your actual choice is either a Republican/Independent™ who votes as a Republican, or a Democrat/Independent™ who votes as a Democrat. Unless there is some sort of ranked choice voting, a third party vote is a spoiler vote that helps the losing candidate.

Right-wing authoritarians are going to come out in force to vote for the actual fascist candidate in the election. That means a solid 40% of the population will crawl over glass to elect a Trump, DeSantis, Cotton, Hawley, Taylor-Greene, etc. The only thing that matters is that a rightful authority figure who self-identifies as an in-group member with the right-wing authoritarian is in control. The fascist doesn't even need to practice what the right-wing authoritarian preaches, just that they identify with the right-wing authoritarians. It's why their "hypocrisy" is irrelevant to right-wing authoritarians.

So...the only voters your imaginary "Good Republican" ticket are going to get are a few percentage points of Republican brand voters who would otherwise vote for the Democrat because they can't vote for the outright fascist. There's not a lot, but each vote matters. Literally. Look at how Trump won 2016 with 78,000 voters spread out in Michigan Wisconsin Pennsylvania. Or how Biden won 2020 with 42,000 voters spread out in Georgia Arizona Wisconsin. Every +1 vote counts, and every -1 vote hurts the should-have-won candidate. Let me explain.

In a democratic republic, a good citizen votes for the better candidate in every election... or if in our intentionally shitty first-past-the-post voting system, the "lesser evil" candidate. That's right, a lesser evil candidate is better than a perfect candidate who has no chance of winning. Every time. Without fail. Because otherwise you're tacitly approving of fascism. If you want to make your vote count, you either vote for the non-fascist Democrat, or you vote for the fascist Republican. Otherwise it's just a proxy vote for whichever side you DON'T want to win, as you should have made your vote count by voting for the candidate who is the lesser evil. Full stop.

And there is math.

If there are N amount of total voters, than a vote for a Democrat is D+1, a vote for a Republican is R+1 and a vote for a third party or non-voter is -1. A winning candidate needs (N * .5) +1. Democratic candidate wins when D= (N * .5) +1. Republican candidate wins when R= (N * .5) +1.

Every -1 vote helps the losing candidate, since it would have been added to the winning candidate's total to take them over the (N * .5) +1 required to win. That +1 after the parenthesis is the vote that "turns" an election. This is also why, literally, every vote matters, even when people say that their particular vote wasn't the deciding vote. Big numbers can confuse people: a 68 story building isn't 68 stories without that lowly 1st story.

For example, a Republican who wants to murder abortion providers and decrease funding for children but who can't support an outright fascist should be a D+1. If they instead vote for Mickey Mouse or stay at home to binge watch Storage Wars, then their vote is actually D-1, decreasing the total of D votes. It's the same way with a woke communist trans groomer who hates America. They should vote D+1, but if they instead vote for Jill Stein or some other Russian asset, it is a D-1 vote.

D-1 = R+1. A vote that should have been counted for D that wasn't cast/counted, is one entire vote removed from the D total, and is one less vote a R needs to reach (N * .5) +1.

R-1 = D+1. A vote that should have been counted for R that wasn't cast/counted, is one entire vote removed from the R total, and is one less vote a D needs to reach (N * .5) +1.

So, voting third party, or staying at home, is a vote for whichever side you believe is more evil. Math. Deal with it.

And the above is true with fascism. A good right-wing authoritarian who fails to vote or votes for a third party is actually a R-1 vote, hurting the Republican candidate and fascism in general. Fascists call them RINOs. I call them tenuous non-fascists. And those mother fuckers need to start making the correct voting choice to make up for the fascist monster they've been enabling the past 40 years. Giving them some Zombie Washington/Space Jesus ticket is just more BothSidesDoIt™ bullshit that is silently but affirmatively enabling fascism.

/rant
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
I don't have an opinion as I don't pay attention to who votes and what is the trigger issue. Simply based on the people I talk to every day in a very liberal area it seems like just about any moderate candidate would do well.

The Q crew is murdering the republication party. I don't know why this asshole has become an oracle to so many people, but their faith in him is unshakeable. I've chatted with a few of them and their devotion is absolute, and more than a little religious.

It's important to remember that the Q crew is the Republican party, and has pretty much always been there since the time Reagan stalked onto the scene. It was inevitable. The recruitment of sociopathic apocalyptic religious nuts as the overwhelming base of the party ensured that the Republican party would forever be batshit Q sociopaths.

You should probably leave that party if you don't like them; but since I assume you've been a loyal Republican for at least 4 decades now, you actually don't mind this because, as I said, they came with Reagan. It was always this way.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,325
4,587
136
But difference is if Biden’s condition is declining, his administration won’t be afraid to 25A him unlike the butt kissers of party over country
 
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