This is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH.

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
I think it is crazy (being polite) that there are so many spanish and other signs out. For anything you go thru, you have to select English as the language. This is America, if they cant learn it, or are too lazy to learn it, then they shouldnt be here. Everytime I go to the ATM, I shouldnt have to pick English or Spanish. They should have to learn English, or get out.

whats even more crazy is people expect small business to have signs in diffrent languages and bilingual speakers.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
wow it looks like the shop owner was trying to intentionally sound like a dick with that sign.

Possibly. And given that this is America, I believe that he absolutely has the right to do so if he wants.

 

[Saint Michael]

It seems like a pretty simple issue to me, actually. Current estimates are that over 10% of the US population speaks Spanish at home, and that's not then counting the people who speak the language but not at home. That number is steadily increasing, from both uncurbable illegal immigration and legal immigration, not to mention immigrants giving birth to children who will be raised in a bilingual environment. Most people are turning this into an emotional issue ("This is America, speak English.") when it really comes down to a practical issue. If businesses have a strong financial interest to provide Spanish speaking customers with service in Spanish, they will. Money talks.

The argument that providing Spanish language service will somehow lead to service in Chinese, Russian, Italian, whatever, is silly. The number of speakers of any of those languages in America is dwarfed by the number of Spanish speakers. The population growth of speakers of those languages is also dwarfed by the population growth of Spanish speakers. Businesses and the government are catering to Spanish speakers instead of any of those foreign-language speakers because it is a practical concern. Plain and simple.

 

[Xcobra]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Xcobra

You are right in the fact that most people who don't speak English just stick to their own language. However, these people tend to be the people who come to the country from their country, which is usually older people. Try teaching old dogs some good tricks, same thing applies. You completely dismiss the fact that most kids (at least latinos) speak predominantly English. So in reality from generation to generation their native language is being used less and less. So I think your point is a bit flawed.

I didn't dismiss the future generations. Most of my friends down here consist of those future generations and speak English and Spanish just fine. I just didn't mention them because they obviously do not fall into the category of people who come over here and refuse to try and speak English while rejecting those that only speak it. They were born and raised here and most of their parents worked hard to learn English themselves. These same Hispanic friends of mine also hate the Hispanics I am referring to and that should say something to everyone.

And don't get me started on the old people. Even the old ones that get here legally are annoying because they don't spend hardly any time working in this country yet they still qualify for things like SS.

see, you just proved yourself wrong. I live in an area where most of the population is Latino (whether legal or illegal) and Im telling you there are only a few of them who actually don't speak some kind of English (this is due to the fact that most of them are new here) but most of them speak a very bad English but they still try. I am a legal immigrant and I had to learn the language just as well as any body did. So there is no way they can survive in this country without know a tiny little bit of English. I am talking from experience and I think experience beats all.

 

[moshquerade]

we've made it too easy for immigrants not to have to assimilate into our culture. they don't have to totally lose their culture, but when they become American they should be *an American* and speak the language.

 

[Saint Michael]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
we've made it too easy for immigrants not to have to assimilate into our culture. they don't have to totally lose their culture, but when they become American they should be *an American* and speak the language.

America isn't a country with a particularly long history. I'm of Russian, Italian, and Swedish descent, and those are only the biggest parts. If I were to visit my cousins in Sweden I'd be in a place with people who have had a distinct culture, language, and ethnicity that has been there for thousands of years, even before the nation known as Sweden was legally brought into place. When a Swede says he's a Swede he implies all of those things. Being an American is not an ethnic designation, nor a lingual designation. It's simply a designation of nationality. Various ethnic groups have come throughout the lifespan of this country that have shaped the general culture we share, in language, food, music, literature, and whatever else. And this isn't over. America is constantly changing, and it's much more flexible than a place like Sweden because change has always been a constant for America in a much more flexible context. All immigrants will assimilate, but they won't do so without leaving a very significant impression upon society. This is in proportion to their influence, of course, and the Hispanic population will inevitably have great influence simply because of their size.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Saint Michael

Originally posted by: moshquerade
we've made it too easy for immigrants not to have to assimilate into our culture. they don't have to totally lose their culture, but when they become American they should be *an American* and speak the language.

America isn't a country with a particularly long history. I'm of Russian, Italian, and Swedish descent, and those are only the biggest parts. If I were to visit my cousins in Sweden I'd be in a place with people who have had a distinct culture, language, and ethnicity that has been there for thousands of years, even before the nation known as Sweden was legally brought into place. When a Swede says he's a Swede he implies all of those things. Being an American is not an ethnic designation, nor a lingual designation. It's simply a designation of nationality. Various ethnic groups have come throughout the lifespan of this country that have shaped the general culture we share, in language, food, music, literature, and whatever else. And this isn't over. America is constantly changing, and it's much more flexible than a place like Sweden because change has always been a constant for America in a much more flexible context. All immigrants will assimilate, but they won't do so without leaving a very significant impression upon society. This is in proportion to their influence, of course, and the Hispanic population will inevitably have great influence simply because of their size.

i didn't dispute any of that.

i will once again drag out and quote Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN:

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

 

[Saint Michael]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
i didn't dispute any of that.

i will once again drag out and quote Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN:

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

That quote provides no definitive logical argument, only an emotional appeal. The language will go whichever way it will, because that is the nature of language. Rarely does conservatism win out over practicality.

 

[elektrolokomotive]

Can you imagine the cost savings if federal/state governments didn't have to make sure everything they printed was multi-lingual? Imagine the trees we could save!!!

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: elektrolokomotive
Can you imagine the cost savings if federal/state governments didn't have to make sure everything they printed was multi-lingual? Imagine the trees we could save!!!

And if we didnt have to pay for the millions of illegals, for a number of things. Quite honestly, it sickens me what is happening, and has been happening for a great number of years with illegals.

 

[AkumaX]

fries w/ cheesewiz plz

 

[qaa541]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: qaa541
This is America, please use tolerance. This is an immigrant country, not everyone may be able to speak English when they get here. That sign is in my opinion crass.

Its like if you go to a foreign country and don't speak the language, and you see an equivalent sign, I would be pretty pissed off (and probably leave hungry).

...or spend the $10 to get one of those small hand books which get you by just fine when it comes to ordering food while you are on your vacation.

There is a big difference between living somewhere and just visiting. I agree with a previous poster who mentioned how we baby the immigrants so much to the point where it kills their motivation to even try and speak English. It makes perfect sense. Why would one try to learn something difficult like another language when they can get by without it despite how difficult it might make things for those who were born in that country?

Perhaps I was not clear, when I was saying if I go to a restaurant that had that equivalent sign for that language, I would leave in protest based on principle of seeing that offending sign, not because I am too ignorant to order in that language(via a phrasebook or equivalent).

I still do not understand why some Americans are so English-or-nothing. I am an American by birth, raised my whole life in Southern California and the most surprising thing is that there are people who expect English to be used 100% of the time. Perhaps you don't live near a large population of immigrants? Will hearing one of the many other languages of the world taint the sanctity of your English-only ears? Will it spoil your appetite when you eat to hear someone speaking in another language at the table across from you?

I grew up where a guy in front of you might order in Spanish and then context switch to take your order in English by default. Same could be said for Chinese and Vietnamese. The one of the last things I would be offended by is someone ordering in their native tongue to the cashier. As long as the cashier can understand me (where my default is English), I don't really care how everyone else is ordering. I honestly don't know how this original posting about the sign in a restaurant got blown up into this broad ranging argument about English as it's status as the de facto official language (vs. the exclusive official language of the US).

It is too far reaching to say that we baby immigrants so they do not end up speaking English at all. Many immigrants come here and have to learn some level of English to get by at the very least. For sure, their children who are born and raised here learn English just as well as anyone else in America. We do not have this endemic population of non-English speaking people. What if you moved to another non-English speaking country and had to sign legal documents? Would you take the time to learn the entire language (say Chinese) which does not even use the Latin character set, just to read, understand and sign government papers? Or would you just sign something not knowing what it said? Multi-Lanugage forms are provided as a convenience and I highly suspect that they end up saving time and money (such as in lawsuits) vs. costing more in translation and printing press fees.

If America prides itself on being a melting pot, why does everyone HAVE to speak and only speak English when English is already the common and unifying language that everyone can understand here?

 

[erikistired]

i was at wendy's the other day trying to order, i ended up driving off because the hispanic person couldn't understand plain english and i really didn't feel like asking for an english speaker.

 

[TrueBlueLS]

Don't feel bad Fisher. I went to a McDonald's about 2 weeks ago. The Indian gentlemen taking my order couldn't understand the difference between "a plain double cheeseburger" and "three double cheeseburgers." I repeated myself 3 different times before I started talking to him like he was stupid. It was only then that my order showed up right on the box. He wasn't happy about that one.

 

[dbk]

If they've never refused service then who cares. I guess the tone is a little harsh but...

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: TrueBlueLS
Don't feel bad Fisher. I went to a McDonald's about 2 weeks ago. The Indian gentlemen taking my order couldn't understand the difference between "a plain double cheeseburger" and "three double cheeseburgers." I repeated myself 3 different times before I started talking to him like he was stupid. It was only then that my order showed up right on the box. He wasn't happy about that one.

i can't imagine why you'd want to drive customers away. is there a shortage of jobless high school kids or something?

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: evident
thats messed up. I know how foreigners feel in this country, because when i went to japan and ordered food at a restaraunt, i couldn't speak a lick of japanese and people gave me the funny eye and in some places i felt unwelcome.
the reason why america is so great is because we're open to other cultures and languages. a sign like this is divisive, counterprogressive and retarded, IMO. most immigrants know that they need to learn english, theres no need to rub it in their face. Genos and pats suck anyway, any true philadelphian goes to jims or tony lukes.

You're kidding that if you think that. And your second paragraph illustrates to us more clearly your silly naive, bigoted opinion.

 

[Saint Michael]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: evident
thats messed up. I know how foreigners feel in this country, because when i went to japan and ordered food at a restaraunt, i couldn't speak a lick of japanese and people gave me the funny eye and in some places i felt unwelcome.
the reason why america is so great is because we're open to other cultures and languages. a sign like this is divisive, counterprogressive and retarded, IMO. most immigrants know that they need to learn english, theres no need to rub it in their face. Genos and pats suck anyway, any true philadelphian goes to jims or tony lukes.

You're kidding that if you think that. And your second paragraph illustrates to us more clearly your silly naive, bigoted opinion.

Bigoted?

 

[BoomerD]

I worked with a fellow of Mexican decent several years ago. At the time, he had been in the US for over 25 years and was still here on a green card. His mom, who NEVER leaves the Hispanic community in which she lives, speaks almost ZERO English...because she doesn't have to. Sure, she knows a handful of words and phrases, but certainly not enough to say she speaks English.

First, WHY are we allowing people to be here over 25 years without applying for citizenship? Green cards should be for TEMPORARY visitors. If they want to stay, they need to apply for citizenship.

Next, this woman is exactly why so many businesses are REQUIRED by law to post their signage in Spanish, print all company documents in Spanish, hire Spanish-speaking office staff and production staff in their workplaces.

I think this restaurant has the right to refuse to accept orders in a language other than English if they choose, and
I think this restaurant has the right to accept orders in a language other than English if they choose...it's up to them.
(Notice the articles say they haven't refused service to anyone, just insist orders are in English.)

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: Saint Michael

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: evident
thats messed up. I know how foreigners feel in this country, because when i went to japan and ordered food at a restaraunt, i couldn't speak a lick of japanese and people gave me the funny eye and in some places i felt unwelcome.
the reason why america is so great is because we're open to other cultures and languages. a sign like this is divisive, counterprogressive and retarded, IMO. most immigrants know that they need to learn english, theres no need to rub it in their face. Genos and pats suck anyway, any true philadelphian goes to jims or tony lukes.

You're kidding that if you think that. And your second paragraph illustrates to us more clearly your silly naive, bigoted opinion.

Bigoted?

Yes.
If you can't speak Japanese, English, or Spanish, of course people will give you funny looks. It's called "being a tourist"

What do you expect? a Boquet of flowers? I don't necessarily agree with the sign, I think you should be able to speak whatever you want, but you should be able to speak English if you move to a country that was founded in the Anglo-Sphere.

 

[Saint Michael]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: Saint Michael

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: evident
thats messed up. I know how foreigners feel in this country, because when i went to japan and ordered food at a restaraunt, i couldn't speak a lick of japanese and people gave me the funny eye and in some places i felt unwelcome.
the reason why america is so great is because we're open to other cultures and languages. a sign like this is divisive, counterprogressive and retarded, IMO. most immigrants know that they need to learn english, theres no need to rub it in their face. Genos and pats suck anyway, any true philadelphian goes to jims or tony lukes.

You're kidding that if you think that. And your second paragraph illustrates to us more clearly your silly naive, bigoted opinion.

Bigoted?

Yes.
If you can't speak Japanese, English, or Spanish, of course people will give you funny looks. It's called "being a tourist"

What do you expect? a Boquet of flowers? I don't necessarily agree with the sign, I think you should be able to speak whatever you want, but you should be able to speak English if you move to a country that was founded in the Anglo-Sphere.

What part of what he said follows the definition of a bigot?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

 

[JS80]

Is engrish acceptable?

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: JS80
Is engrish acceptable?

Engrish Dot Com

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
I think it is crazy (being polite) that there are so many spanish and other signs out. For anything you go thru, you have to select English as the language. This is America, if they cant learn it, or are too lazy to learn it, then they shouldnt be here. Everytime I go to the ATM, I shouldnt have to pick English or Spanish. They should have to learn English, or get out.

at the atms i'm at...I also have Chinese there. There is also maybe vietnamese or korean...or potentially russian. I don't remember exactly.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I worked with a fellow of Mexican decent several years ago. At the time, he had been in the US for over 25 years and was still here on a green card. His mom, who NEVER leaves the Hispanic community in which she lives, speaks almost ZERO English...because she doesn't have to. Sure, she knows a handful of words and phrases, but certainly not enough to say she speaks English.

First, WHY are we allowing people to be here over 25 years without applying for citizenship? Green cards should be for TEMPORARY visitors. If they want to stay, they need to apply for citizenship.

Next, this woman is exactly why so many businesses are REQUIRED by law to post their signage in Spanish, print all company documents in Spanish, hire Spanish-speaking office staff and production staff in their workplaces.

I think this restaurant has the right to refuse to accept orders in a language other than English if they choose, and
I think this restaurant has the right to accept orders in a language other than English if they choose...it's up to them.
(Notice the articles say they haven't refused service to anyone, just insist orders are in English.)

So? She is part of an older generation - even if she learned english it'd probably be shitty english. She has a good community around her that has helped her acclimate to living elsewhere. Your fellow "Mexican Friend" clearly speaks english to you. Sounds like things are about right.

You guys suck at business. If I ran a business, I'd hire workers who speak not just english, but any other major language in the area. If everyone else is too racist to accept non english orders, I'll happily take the money of non english speakers.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Ackmed
I think it is crazy (being polite) that there are so many spanish and other signs out. For anything you go thru, you have to select English as the language. This is America, if they cant learn it, or are too lazy to learn it, then they shouldnt be here. Everytime I go to the ATM, I shouldnt have to pick English or Spanish. They should have to learn English, or get out.

at the atms i'm at...I also have Chinese there. There is also maybe vietnamese or korean...or potentially russian. I don't remember exactly.

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I worked with a fellow of Mexican decent several years ago. At the time, he had been in the US for over 25 years and was still here on a green card. His mom, who NEVER leaves the Hispanic community in which she lives, speaks almost ZERO English...because she doesn't have to. Sure, she knows a handful of words and phrases, but certainly not enough to say she speaks English.

First, WHY are we allowing people to be here over 25 years without applying for citizenship? Green cards should be for TEMPORARY visitors. If they want to stay, they need to apply for citizenship.

Next, this woman is exactly why so many businesses are REQUIRED by law to post their signage in Spanish, print all company documents in Spanish, hire Spanish-speaking office staff and production staff in their workplaces.

I think this restaurant has the right to refuse to accept orders in a language other than English if they choose, and
I think this restaurant has the right to accept orders in a language other than English if they choose...it's up to them.
(Notice the articles say they haven't refused service to anyone, just insist orders are in English.)

So? She is part of an older generation - even if she learned english it'd probably be shitty english. She has a good community around her that has helped her acclimate to living elsewhere. Your fellow "Mexican Friend" clearly speaks english to you. Sounds like things are about right.

You guys suck at business. If I ran a business, I'd hire workers who speak not just english, but any other major language in the area. If everyone else is too racist to accept non english orders, I'll happily take the money of non english speakers.

Just to make it clear - I think potential business ($$$) is what's really having you do that, not your fight for equal rights.

Just like politicians who don't want to lose the (insert race or age group) vote by siding with an issue when clearly there's a problem there. They are simply on the side that will maximize their votes.