This is America?

[Moonbeam]

The answer to a flat tire isn't always to throw away the car. We could, I suppose, if we wanted to disregard aireline security all together, replace the horror story of the toy gun with something like, Extra Extra, read all about it, terrorists blow up their thousanth plane in 2003.

And when am I gonna start hearing those screams that we act with greater justice in the world?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Gaard
Am I correct in assuming that those against searches deem them either unimportant or ineffective? Surely if you thought they would help in preventing another 9/11 you wouldn't be objecting to trading your right to not be searched at airports for preventing another attack, right?

I don't presume to speak for those who are categorically opposed to such searches (I myself am not), but I think the way the argument goes is that the searches are per se unlawful on the basis that they offend the Fourth Amendment, whether or not there is a genuine danger of terrorist bombing.

 

[rahvin]

I fail to see what this arguement is even about. Frankly you aren't prohibted from flying if you refuse to allow your bags or person to be searched. You are prohibited from flying with the general public because we the general public don't want to fly with you. If you want to get on a plane without bag searches CHARTER a private flight, chartered flights are not screened or searched. That way those of us that think you are unsafe don't have to sit next to you.

 

[skyking]

Thank you both for trivializing the largest attack on US soil on one occasion ever. I am so sick of all this right wing libertarian rhetoric talking about the price of freedom when you yourself isn't willing to sacrifice anything. We're trying to fight a war to defend this country, everyone's called upon to make sacrifices and all you can do is b!tch about getting searched at the airport and how thats violating your rights and freedoms.

So this was bigger than Pearl Harbor, the beginning of the war in the Pacific?
I am not trivializing anything, and my post was an off-topic rant about an attitude that has been bothering me for a long time. I didn't intend to offend anyone, I lost and mourned on Sept. 11 myself.
My intent is to point out that giving up freedoms without regard, thinking it will make things safer, is pure drivel.

Very well put. I have already been deployed to the middle east on two days' notice in support of Operation Enduring Freedom (in Sept of last year), and it looks like I may be sent again this fall, missing the holidays twice in a row. In that context, I really take issue with boneheads blathering about how "royally pissed" they are at the idea of taking their shoes off at the airport.

Don_vito, yours is a real sacrifice, and I applaud and thank you for it. I am not complaining about taking off my shoes, just about an attitude that prevails, that we can legislate a protective shell around the individual with the loss of "just a few minor" freedoms.
My post was off topic, once again, I apolgize if it offended.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't think it's about the fact that we can't legislate a protective shell around the individual with the loss of "just a few minor" freedoms.

I think it's about the fact that searching luggage increases the probability that terrorists will not succeed in using that route as a means of terror and people will continue to fly. Laws can't stop anything, but looking in a suitcase with a bomb in it can.

 

[skyking]

Laws can't stop anything, but looking in a suitcase with a bomb in it can.

Laws regarding the flight of small planes could in absolutely no way prevent using a plane to attack an outdoor event. The military was and is incapable of defending every inch of our soil from an attack from within our borders.
That did not stop the government from passing emergency restrictions which effectively wiped out the aerial advertising industry, and putting me and countless other pilots out of work. Is a terrorist not going to fly within 3 miles of an outdoor stadium, because there is a law that says otherwise? It takes 90 seconds to traverse that distance, in the slowest of planes.
The restrictions have since been lifted, but not before the advertisers all went elswhere. This is just an example of the knee-jerk reactions which occurred in many different areas, which tripled the effectiveness of the terrorist attacks. We empowered those terrorists well beyond their wildest dreams.
Instead of shutting everything down for weeks, trying to insure that it could never happen again, our government could have gotten travel under way much sooner, with no more or less risk to the public.
My point was, and still is, there will be risk, unless you cease all movement and exposure. Freedom is risky, but well worth it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Being born is a guarantee you're going to die. The fact that life has risks is a fact of life, not a reason not to reduce risks nor does it mean that people stay home. Laws say to drive on the right side of the highway. People drive on the other side, for a while. Then we bury them. The pilot and airline mechanics perform elaborate safety checks before take off. Why not just fly baby fly. Getting in your car is vastly more dangerous than flying. Risk is a state of mind. Some people take foolish risks, others are over cautious. We manage risk on a personal level and on an economic level. Airline passanger search is a bit of both, a cross between discouraging terrorism to a level of comfort that promotes sufficient confidence for the average person to fly. You can test this. Go down to the airport and start laughing at the searchers that their piddly efforts can't stop bombs from getting on planes. Do this where passengers can hear you. My gut feeling tells me they'll haul your ass away in a hurry.

Nobody really wants to be searched, nobody really wants to be delayed, nobody really wants to foot the bill for searching. People perceive that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, and they impose those disadvantages on themselves. Nobody makes you fly. You don't have to subject yourself to this is you truly feel the opposite. Nobody in nabbing you in the middle of the night and throwing you on a plane after searching you. Anything you don't want anybody to see or know you have, leave it at home. It's a different matter to be searched at random, to be seized on the street and searched, to be held forcably against your will without trial or charges because you are a terrorist suspect.

 

[UDT89]

Being that i work in a very very large airport and see it every hour that i am awake, all i have to say is this.......

Airport security is not as good as people think. Pre and POST 9/11.......trust me, what these big wigs say on TV is non-existant. Tell me what 2 unarmed guards are gonna do in a lobby of 300 people?

Second, people want their rights. Ok, i understand. BUT, i am not sure of the law or what it is but as far as international travel is concerned all baggage and persons entering the border of the US are subject to search. NO matter who/what they are. DONT, get me started on diplomats, b/c they are the only ones that have privledges to this law. (BS)

Third, if you really wanna be such a pain in the A$$ like this guy in the article FINE. Does it really hurt to cooperate with the situation at hand and why do people always find time to complain and run their mouths when by the time its all said and done, if they cooperated they woulda been out 20 minutes ago. Making a point is one thing, but if you want to be a true american, just respect the people trying to make travel safer.

The only way AMERICA can beat terrorism, is if we all work together. The first step is stop crying that we all have these civil rights from the Constitution. I bet you my life that the founding fathers, if confronted with the situation that some "terrorists" would blow themselves up in streets or ride their TNT filled horses into the white house, they would've changed things a LOT faster than they are being done now.

If you dont give up a LITTLE bit of rights, and i mean a little......its not like someone is knocking on your door and demanding a search, ure flying with 300 other strangers that dont care who you are or what your beliefs are but want to be sure they are safe.
And if we dont give a little, were gonna LOSE a LOT again. I KNOW IT.

Just a thought