This is what happens without labor unions:

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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
This just in!!! Businesses are out to make money.

This also just in. Business will pay top dollar for good highly skilled labor.

why pay for skilled labor when you can get slave labor for free. That is what the tea party people want.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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no this is what happens in 3rd world shitholes has nothing to do with unions

Problem is, the Republicans' and Tea Partiers' economic policies of exposing us to global labor arbitrage (free trade, H-1B and L-1 visas, and mass immigration) combined with support for population explosion will eventually transform us into one of those third world shitholes. The transformation is happening right now.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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The problem with these claims that only unions protect us is that our culture has changed greatly in the last century, and there is no evidence to suggest that it will change back to chained slaves working 100 hours a week without unions. The changes are now self-sustaining.

The majority of citizens support a reasonable level of worker safety, some kind of minimum wage, outlawing child labor, and other gains that unions made long ago. Republicans push for lower levels of safety (calling regulations too burdensome) and fight for a lower minimum wage, but they know they can't remove them entirely.

It wouldn't happen overnight, but that doesn't mean it couldn't eventually happen. Over a period of decades the American masses could become increasingly poor. Politicians might begin talking about how labor and environmental protections and minimum wage laws make it impossible to compete with fifty-cents-an-hour Chinese. Heck, the Republicans already discussed weakening OHSA.

I'm sure the Romans never thought their empire would collapse, either, but it did.

Over the past several decades we have witnessed an increasing amount of wealth concentration amongst the rich and decreasing wealth for the lower classes. Heck, many Americans who have student loan debt are working for less than slavery at unpaid internships in the hope that they'll be able to salvage value from their college investments. (At least slaves receive room and board.)
 
Oct 30, 2004
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And finally, If you think for one second this will happen again in America you've got to turn off guilty pleasure news, and stop reading huffpo, and go outside and get some fresh air. Enjoy some life and stop living in fear. None of this is going to happen, and if it did, there'd be a violent revolution.

A violent revolution--like in Mexico, South America, and other third world nations where the populace seems to have passively accepted its fate? What seems to be happening in the U.S. is that the populace has been cowed by free market dogma and the myth of meritocracy and placated by promises that investments in higher education will magically cure our economic problems.

In the meantime, our nation is suffering mass third world immigration. Those people are used to widespread poverty being the norm. Slowly, overtime, it will become the norm for Americans as well. College-educated and student loan-ridden cashiers ("educated indentured class") will blame themselves for not being good enough to find jobs in their fields and will just accept the economic malaise. Over time it will just become the new normal.

I don't think we'll see a violent revolution in this country; Americans are too stupid and too steeped in free market dogma. The French people have a sense of economic self-interest and could engage in a revolution, but not the brainwashed American sheeple.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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The libertarians in this thread remind me of the black who fought on the side of the confederate during the civil war. They are fighting for their own enslavement. It is sad really.

This is epitomized by Joe the Plumber (aka, Joe the Moron).
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Business will pay top dollar for good highly skilled labor.

Like the businesses that laid off Americans and moved their production to China? Or the businesses that lay off American engineers in order to hire less expensive foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas?

How do you explain instances of highly skilled people who are turned down for employment because they are "overqualified"?

Sometimes what you said is true and sometimes it is not, but to take it as an absolute is to make it a dogma.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
If ignorance is bliss, then you are in heaven.

Please look at all of the corporations who are going over seas and using slave labor. Yes many american companies are using the type of labor described in this article overseas. We need more laws here to stop them from going to 3rd world countries and exploiting the workers there.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Like the businesses that laid off Americans and moved their production to China? Or the businesses that lay off American engineers in order to hire less expensive foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas?

Because American made products can't compete price wise and you can't sell the stuff. People need to stop buying Chinese made garbage.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Because American made products can't compete price wise and you can't sell the stuff. People need to stop buying Chinese made garbage.

Western companies including those in the U.S need to stop going to China and enslaving their people.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
but not the brainwashed American sheeple.

These kinds of things change overnight, history is full of such examples. The only way it does happen really is spontaneous as the capitalists are always on the lookout for class warfare from the "rabble" and usually can make up something to distract the workers. Mass media has helped the establishment adapt to damage control, they have right wing talking heads on feeding the capitalist line in minutes worldwide the second workers (you know..the other 98% they are parasitically living off of) start asking questions.

When it happens it will happen in a matter of a day or two, once some people see the shit is getting serious in a few bigger areas there is a lot of resentment interweaved into the background of US society.
It will not be pretty. However it happens in the USA revolution will be very fast once the MSM is not towing the establishments line and the actual people are on the same page instead of blaming one another thanks to the media.
 
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nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
0
76
LOL.

Where is your logic (if any) in that? Are you trying to equate a bunch of greedy mobsters with the law?
I don't know any sane person who doesn't equate a bunch of greedy mobsters with the law - in general that is.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Problem is, the Republicans' and Tea Partiers' economic policies of exposing us to global labor arbitrage (free trade, H-1B and L-1 visas, and mass immigration) combined with support for population explosion will eventually transform us into one of those third world shitholes. The transformation is happening right now.

LMAO, you think those things belong to Republicans and the Tea Party? Goddamn you Democrats are blind. You'll lap up any shit your team throws on the ground, won't you? Wow.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
LMAO, you think those things belong to Republicans and the Tea Party? Goddamn you Democrats are blind. You'll lap up any shit your team throws on the ground, won't you? Wow.

Free trade and the global free market are integral parts of conservative and libertarian ideology... Just because some Democrats believe in those principles doesn't make them less conservative. Aren't you always criticizing Democrats for being too far to the left? Well Bill Clinton moved to the center and pushed NAFTA didn't he? Shouldn't conservatives praise him for that? Or did you want him to stay left? Which is it, you want absolutely free markets or you want what you call socialism and protectionism?

I'll never understand how the conservative mind works... Democrats follow conservative principles and you jump at the chance to bash them for doing that, while still apparently supporting those principles?!!?!

Take a step back. You make no fucking sense.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
Oh wait, I get it. Now that Americans are waking up to the nightmare of markets that are too free, you people are trying to gloss over and backpedal as fast as you can from your free market bullshit you've been hawking, and trying to act like you didn't demonize anything not absolutely free and libertopian as red socialism.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Oh wait, I get it. Now that Americans are waking up to the nightmare of markets that are too free, you people are trying to gloss over and backpedal as fast as you can from your free market bullshit you've been hawking, and trying to act like you didn't demonize anything not absolutely free and libertopian as red socialism.

That certain poster has no coherent ideology but being a contrarian troll.

And yes, people are waking up bit by bit. Damn shame conservatives put us on this anti-intellectual road a few decades ago, I should be kicking back with a cold one on my giant red battlecruiser in orbit or pwning space nazis or something. sux.
:\
 
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matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
Free trade and the global free market are integral parts of conservative and libertarian ideology... Just because some Democrats believe in those principles doesn't make them less conservative. Aren't you always criticizing Democrats for being too far to the left? Well Bill Clinton moved to the center and pushed NAFTA didn't he? Shouldn't conservatives praise him for that? Or did you want him to stay left? Which is it, you want absolutely free markets or you want what you call socialism and protectionism?

I'll never understand how the conservative mind works... Democrats follow conservative principles and you jump at the chance to bash them for doing that, while still apparently supporting those principles?!!?!

Take a step back. You make no fucking sense.

Lol you think NAFTA is free trade, thats a good one

So whats your plan? 25% tariffs on all Chinese goods like Trump wants?

Why don't we just make a law outlawing trade with all countries? We can make everything in the US and we'll all be rich right?

I actually wish there was way MORE immigration to the US. From all places, Mexico included. I wish we could have basically open borders to let anyone whos not dangerous into the US. Our welfare state stops us from doing this though. I want people who are looking for work and a better life to come here, I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

And ask any of these people who are making so called "slave wages" what they were doing before, chances are it was much much worse. I want the poor people of the world to have better opportunities to make more money and live a better life. The average person in China and India are much better off than they were a long time ago. I don't get why people who are "left" are against this kind of thing, don't you get how much better their life will be and will continue to become? Eventually they will have a much stronger middle class.

We do have problems here, I don't think cutting off trade is the answer though.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Lol you think NAFTA is free trade, thats a good one

So whats your plan? 25% tariffs on all Chinese goods like Trump wants?

Why don't we just make a law outlawing trade with all countries? We can make everything in the US and we'll all be rich right?

Seems fair. September 27, 2010: 12:16 PM ET: The Chinese Ministry of Commerce announced Sunday that poultry imports from the U.S. will face steep tariffs, the latest salvo in an ongoing trade war between the two countries. The 35 companies singled out in the announcement will face tariffs of between 50.3% and 53.4%. All U.S. producers not named in the release will face a tariff of 105.4% percent.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by matt0611
Lol you think NAFTA is free trade, thats a good one

So whats your plan? 25% tariffs on all Chinese goods like Trump wants?

Why don't we just make a law outlawing trade with all countries? We can make everything in the US and we'll all be rich right?



Seems fair. September 27, 2010: 12:16 PM ET: The Chinese Ministry of Commerce announced Sunday that poultry imports from the U.S. will face steep tariffs, the latest salvo in an ongoing trade war between the two countries. The 35 companies singled out in the announcement will face tariffs of between 50.3% and 53.4%. All U.S. producers not named in the release will face a tariff of 105.4% percent.

China and Trump have it right.
 
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