This is what happens without labor unions:

[Throckmorton]

Uhh people, before we had unions, this kind of stuff DID happen in America. Did you Republicans/Libertarians all fail US history or something?

 

[comptr6]

Uhh people, before we had unions, this kind of stuff DID happen in America. Did you Republicans/Libertarians all fail US history or something?

That might have been what the pro-union leftist teachers brainwashed you into thinking at public schools. Those of us lucky enough to be home schooled were taught the truth not some pro-socialist America hating propaganda.

 

[Genx87]

Uhh people, before we had unions, this kind of stuff DID happen in America. Did you Republicans/Libertarians all fail US history or something?

Unions have been around since the 1820s in some form or fashion in this country. And before that, in Europe there were trade unions and guilds going back even further. So what are you trying to say? For hundreds of years unions failed to pass min wage and child labor laws? Or they really had nothing to do with these advancement in worker protections? Or you thought unions were formed in the 1920s and 30s in this country?

 

[Throckmorton]

Disturbing but a piece of American history that should be watched by all.

Obviously people have no clue that this is exactly what was happening here before we had Labor laws. This a exact repeat of history, welcome to the libertopian fantasyworld.

Word for word same story.

That is extremely sad. And that's exactly what the Libertarians and Republicans want for us-- a race to the bottom, competing directly with 28 cent an hour workers being beaten for protesting because there are no union laws. Because it means more profits for the just and holy corporations.

 

[Throckmorton]

Unions have been around since the 1820s in some form or fashion in this country. And before that, in Europe there were trade unions and guilds going back even further. So what are you trying to say? For hundreds of years unions failed to pass min wage and child labor laws? Or they really had nothing to do with these advancement in worker protections? Or you thought unions were formed in the 1920s and 30s in this country?

So because unions existed "in some form or fashion" they were supposed to magically improve conditions for all workers? Unions exist today and still most Americans only get 12 days of PTO a year, no pensions, and miserable health insurance. Because most people aren't unionized and union participation has dropped drastically...


Here's a timeline. It wasn't until 1935 that federal law was passed to force employers to negotiate with unions.

http://www.infoplease.com/timelines/laborunions.html

 

[DucatiMonster696]

So because unions existed "in some form or fashion" they were supposed to magically improve conditions for all workers? Unions exist today and still most Americans only get 12 days of PTO a year, no pensions, and miserable health insurance. Because most people aren't unionized...

That's the assertion made by the OP. Nice how you spun it around.

 

[TheDoc9]

If republicans and libertarians have their way we will be seeing this in america soon.

This is where you fail op. Firstly, libertarians aren't evil greedy business owners. This is a lame line of pure bs being habitually spread on these forums. Surely some of you are getting paid to spout this nonsense.

Second, it's your democratic and republican elect who've sold out the U.S. to the highest bidder.

And finally, If you think for one second this will happen again in America you've got to turn off guilty pleasure news, and stop reading huffpo, and go outside and get some fresh air. Enjoy some life and stop living in fear. None of this is going to happen, and if it did, there'd be a violent revolution.

 

[werepossum]

So because unions existed "in some form or fashion" they were supposed to magically improve conditions for all workers? Unions exist today and still most Americans only get 12 days of PTO a year, no pensions, and miserable health insurance. Because most people aren't unionized...

Work conditions improve, through things like child labor laws, shorter work days, and paid vacation, because productivity increases sufficiently to support those things. Much of the world is still near subsistence level farming and industry. If those countries unionized and adopted child labor laws, shorter work days, and paid vacation, many people would be starving. Workers can demand those things (and higher wages), but if employers cannot afford to pay them, then the employers simply fold, societal wealth goes down, and the demanding workers are without any income.

 

[Genx87]

So because unions existed "in some form or fashion" they were supposed to magically improve conditions for all workers? Unions exist today and still most Americans only get 12 days of PTO a year, no pensions, and miserable health insurance. Because most people aren't unionized and union participation has dropped drastically...

Unions have existed for hundreds of years and we still didnt have min wage or child protection laws. You cant claim unions are the reason these were enacted when unions existed for hundreds of years while there werent any of these protections.

Even if you wanted to make the incorrect claim the 1930's is when unionization was started in this country. Min wage laws were being enacted at the state level for 2 decades before. And child labor laws go back to the turn of the century. These are before the big increase in union membership in the 1930s.

Not seeing how we can thank the unions for these protections.

 

[crownjules]

Unions have existed for hundreds of years and we still didnt have min wage or child protection laws. You cant claim unions are the reason these were enacted when unions existed for hundreds of years while there werent any of these protections.

Even if you wanted to make the incorrect claim the 1930's is when unionization was started in this country. Min wage laws were being enacted at the state level for 2 decades before. And child labor laws go back to the turn of the century. These are before the big increase in union membership in the 1930s.

Not seeing how we can thank the unions for these protections.

You're looking at unions/guilds in a vacuum. The reason why they couldn't make any headway prior to the 19th century was the structure of society. Under feudalism, you do what your lord says or you likely don't live anymore. It wasn't until the US revolution that the door was opened for workers to begin standing up for themselves and fighting for a better life.

 

[MotF Bane]

no this is what happens in 3rd world shitholes has nothing to do with unions

This.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[Genx87]

You're looking at unions/guilds in a vacuum. The reason why they couldn't make any headway prior to the 19th century was the structure of society. Under feudalism, you do what your lord says or you likely don't live anymore. It wasn't until the US revolution that the door was opened for workers to begin standing up for themselves and fighting for a better life.

Unions were still being formed to increase the betterment of the collective regardless of the economic system of the time. That said if we took your theory how does it take over 80 years for min wage and child labor laws to be enacted if unions were pushing for these?

My point is these increases in worker protections were enacted due to the laborers(voters) telling their representives they wanted it. Not because a union pushed govt to enact these laws.

 

[Munky]

You're looking at unions/guilds in a vacuum. The reason why they couldn't make any headway prior to the 19th century was the structure of society. Under feudalism, you do what your lord says or you likely don't live anymore. It wasn't until the US revolution that the door was opened for workers to begin standing up for themselves and fighting for a better life.

I can take that argument further, and say it was the social/political/economic changes of the 20th century that brought us the benefits and had nothing to do with the unions.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If all the unions were dissolved today it would have very little if any affect on the rest of the non-union workers. It would give the union workers more money in their pockets as the extortion money would no longer come out of their paychecks.

 

[Double Trouble]

You're looking at unions/guilds in a vacuum. The reason why they couldn't make any headway prior to the 19th century was the structure of society. Under feudalism, you do what your lord says or you likely don't live anymore. It wasn't until the US revolution that the door was opened for workers to begin standing up for themselves and fighting for a better life.

I don't think a lot of people would argue that unions didn't play an important role in the rights people enjoy today, and I don't think a lot of people would argue that unions weren't critical in some ways to creating a viable middle class.

Times change and the world is not the same as it was in 1930. Unions are a relic of times past, with the exception of certain specific situations. Reality (global competition) has forced them pretty much out of most of the private sector. The last bastion of union style seniority-instead-of-merit based thinking is government, which has no competition and has no need to be efficient or control spending. Once we start holding government accountable for spending unions will disappear there as well. It will just take time.

 

[ShawnD1]

Why do you need unions to protect against kidnapping / slavery ?
Seems like you need rule of law to me.

Fail.

Labor unions are why those laws exist in the first place. Remove the unions and slavery and kidnapping immediately become legal again.

 

[Infohawk]

Although it's true unions coincided with better labor laws, it doesn't follow that taking them away will mean no more labor laws. It's like saying that once a teenager stops having higher hormone levels they will revert to the size of an infant. They just stop growing. Workplace safety is pretty good in the US these days.

 

[Throckmorton]

Unions have existed for hundreds of years and we still didnt have min wage or child protection laws. You cant claim unions are the reason these were enacted when unions existed for hundreds of years while there werent any of these protections.

Even if you wanted to make the incorrect claim the 1930's is when unionization was started in this country. Min wage laws were being enacted at the state level for 2 decades before. And child labor laws go back to the turn of the century. These are before the big increase in union membership in the 1930s.

Not seeing how we can thank the unions for these protections.

Following your logic, black people didn't fight for and win equal rights during the Civil Rights Movement, because black people existed in America and didn't have equal rights for 200 years before that...

 

[Steeplerot]

This is where you fail op. Firstly, libertarians aren't evil greedy business owners.

No, they are usually old dudes gone senile/paranoid, sociopath war profiteers using greed for a personal justification, college kids still learning about real life, or unemployed losers with no life at all looking for someone or people/group to blame their failings in life on instead of taking responsibility.

That pretty much sums up Libertarians as a whole on the net /talk radio/rw media and in here.

 

[JSt0rm]

what kind of labor laws do they have in bandgladesh?
comparison fail.

If you knew history you would know labor laws developed because unions fought for them.

 

[JSt0rm]

Work conditions improve, through things like child labor laws, shorter work days, and paid vacation, because productivity increases sufficiently to support those things.

Your talking out of your ass. Labor laws happened because of unions fighting for them. Fuck we are doomed if people dont know this history. No wonder policy is fucked.

 

[BoberFett]

Of course libertarians are pro-slavery. I've got a bunch of people chained up in my basement right now. I thought this was common knowledge.

 

[Throckmorton]

BTW, did you Libertarians even watch the whole video? The Bangladeshis try to protest for better wages, 35 cents an hour, but the police beat them and spray the with dyed water so they can be arrested. The government effectively has banned the right of workers to organize.

Oh right, you believe the only way to fairly negotiate for wages is individually, and on the globalized free trade world market. Which is why American workers' real wages have been falling for 30 years and we're on our way to being a third world Libertopia.

 

[BoberFett]

And naturally in your eyes, the solution to being abused by the the police is more government, not less.

 

[Jaskalas]

Basically workers are being chained to factory machines and forced to do hard labor. It is modern day slavery of the worst kind. If republicans and libertarians have their way we will be seeing this in america soon. Remember this is what your tea party members want, and the only thing protecting us from this is the labor union.

What fat cats are you paying for the privilege to be their shill?