This is why AMD needs a new PR scheme

[Keysplayr]

I prefer Intel because, quite simply, they have never failed me. Whether it be cpu, chipset, or nic card. Why should I change? Intel has been good to me, so I will continue to use them for not only my home, but for the Information technology department I run at my company. Intel made a wrong turn, but that does not mean that they make crap products by any stretch. As far as I have been reading and hearing, AMD has done a terrific job with their superior CPU's. All they succeeded in doing was to wake up Intel.
It is pretty much evident with Pat Gelsinger confirming that Netburst is history. So, fortunately, I have a great deal of patience. I can wait till this Dual Core Prescott fiasco blows over and then we will get to the real juicy stuff in Q1/Q2 2006.

 

[PetNorth]

keysplayr2003, Are you seriously saying that a PD 820 is an attractive product because CPu+mobo+ram is ~$200 cheaper than X2 4200+? come one guy...

Let's see. How many time do you think a consumer will own this base machine? two years for example? So we are talking about around ~$0,27 per day. WOW. For ~$0,27 more per day, with X2 solution you enjoy every minute a *silent* system (notice why care power consumition and heat) and faster like the hell. Where the hell is the deal with crappy PD? Only a misinformed joe average can see the deal (WOW $200 cheaper, I buy it. *Fool* consumer). And if joe average *can't* pay $200 more right now is better he saves some money in a couple of months and wait to buy a really good product, not a crappy one. IMO.

With this said, I don't really care what the hell will buy joe average. But of course, I know for sure that I will not waste my money with a crappy product like PD. If I waste money is for a good product. PD isn't it. Period.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Dookie

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Unfortunately, AMD is still losing money and needs to attract more customers. Advertising is a means of doing that. When AMD says that they have no plans to market their products, that's scary.

That is unfortunate. IMHO I think they'd be better off trying to get more OEM contracts than running a huge ad campaign. I was at Best Buy the other day and I looked at their PCs. There were, I think, 1 or 2 AMD boxes out of the 20 or so PCs.

The problem is it's a what came first, the chicken or the egg? In order for a Dell, HP, etc to want to buy or buy more AMD cpus, consumers are going to want to demand it. Plus, fhe majority of folks that buy Dells, HP's are more concerned over price than performance. And Intel's Pentium D is something that can be packaged more cheaply.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I prefer Intel because, quite simply, they have never failed me. Whether it be cpu, chipset, or nic card. Why should I change? Intel has been good to me, so I will continue to use them for not only my home, but for the Information technology department I run at my company. Intel made a wrong turn, but that does not mean that they make crap products by any stretch. As far as I have been reading and hearing, AMD has done a terrific job with their superior CPU's. All they succeeded in doing was to wake up Intel.
It is pretty much evident with Pat Gelsinger confirming that Netburst is history. So, fortunately, I have a great deal of patience. I can wait till this Dual Core Prescott fiasco blows over and then we will get to the real juicy stuff in Q1/Q2 2006.

This is the kind of attitude that many top execs make, they don't know that AMD is currently better, and say "Intel has been good to me, so why change ?" Thus our IT department wants opteron servers, but upper management says no. (we have 120,000 employees, and 4.000 just in IT to give you an idea of the size) right NOW we need some good replacement servers that are faster, and for what they are used for the Opterons are cheaper and faster for the intended use. We are talking upwards of 100 servers this year (not counting the mainframes were are adding, just wintel boxes).

You on the other hand know they are better and are waiting "just because" and that to me is just stupid. Nothing personal, but get real.... This kind of attitude at my comany makes me angry, because the cash comes out of MY pocket, and the slower response makes life hard for ME. Thus the same attitude when I see it makes me upset to see it continue anywhere.

 

[Dookie]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
The problem is it's a what came first, the chicken or the egg? In order for a Dell, HP, etc to want to buy or buy more AMD cpus, consumers are going to want to demand it. Plus, fhe majority of folks that buy Dells, HP's are more concerned over price than performance. And Intel's Pentium D is something that can be packaged more cheaply.

Good point, advertising wouldn't help them much if they can't cut the price on the X2. I mean, I can just imagine how happy John Q Publik will be when the Best Buy guy talks about this new "dual core" buisness and finds out how cheap it is.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: PetNorth
keysplayr2003, Are you seriously saying that a PD 820 is an attractive product because CPu+mobo+ram is ~$200 cheaper than X2 4200+? come one guy...

Let's see. How many time do you think a consumer will own this base machine? two years for example? So we are talking about around ~$0,27 per day. WOW. For ~$0,27 more per day, with X2 solution you enjoy every minute a *silent* system (notice why care power consumition and heat) and faster like the hell. Where the hell is the deal with crappy PD? Only a misinformed joe average can see the deal (WOW $200 cheaper, I buy it. *Fool* consumer). And if joe average *can't* pay $200 more right now is better he saves some money in a couple of months and wait to buy a really good product, not a crappy one. IMO.

With this said, I don't really care what the hell will buy joe average. But of course, I know for sure that I will not waste my money with a crappy product like PD. If I waste money is for a good product. PD isn't it. Period.

The really big problem here is that nobody can accept choices other people make when it doesn't correspond to the choices they make.

I wish you guys would stick to your stories. It's really getting annoying. First you scream that AMD is better because all you need to do is buy the X2 chip and your off and running. For 537 dollars. For a 4200+ And if you go for the PD system, you would have to buy cpu mobo and ram and would cost just as much if not more than a X2 chip. So first everyone complains about the cost, then when this is disproved, suddenly cost means very little. Not everybody has a 939 board.

So, I can buy a PD 820, 945 mobo, and 1GB DDR2 for less than the cost of a single lowest end X2 AMD has to offer or should I say preorder. You only see things your way, well you won't get far in life that way. Sometimes you have to see things for what they really are. If I'm not making sense, it's probably because this thread keep morphing into other BS with every post. Sorry.

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I prefer Intel because, quite simply, they have never failed me. Whether it be cpu, chipset, or nic card. Why should I change? Intel has been good to me, so I will continue to use them for not only my home, but for the Information technology department I run at my company. Intel made a wrong turn, but that does not mean that they make crap products by any stretch. As far as I have been reading and hearing, AMD has done a terrific job with their superior CPU's. All they succeeded in doing was to wake up Intel.
It is pretty much evident with Pat Gelsinger confirming that Netburst is history. So, fortunately, I have a great deal of patience. I can wait till this Dual Core Prescott fiasco blows over and then we will get to the real juicy stuff in Q1/Q2 2006.

reminds me of ppl who always go to the same restaurant and order the same dishes...

 

[PetNorth]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: PetNorth
keysplayr2003, Are you seriously saying that a PD 820 is an attractive product because CPu+mobo+ram is ~$200 cheaper than X2 4200+? come one guy...

Let's see. How many time do you think a consumer will own this base machine? two years for example? So we are talking about around ~$0,27 per day. WOW. For ~$0,27 more per day, with X2 solution you enjoy every minute a *silent* system (notice why care power consumition and heat) and faster like the hell. Where the hell is the deal with crappy PD? Only a misinformed joe average can see the deal (WOW $200 cheaper, I buy it. *Fool* consumer). And if joe average *can't* pay $200 more right now is better he saves some money in a couple of months and wait to buy a really good product, not a crappy one. IMO.

With this said, I don't really care what the hell will buy joe average. But of course, I know for sure that I will not waste my money with a crappy product like PD. If I waste money is for a good product. PD isn't it. Period.

The really big problem here is that nobody can accept choices other people make when it doesn't correspond to the choices they make.

I wish you guys would stick to your stories. It's really getting annoying. First you scream that AMD is better because all you need to do is buy the X2 chip and your off and running. For 537 dollars. For a 4200+ And if you go for the PD system, you would have to buy cpu mobo and ram and would cost just as much if not more than a X2 chip. So first everyone complains about the cost, then when this is disproved, suddenly cost means very little. Not everybody has a 939 board.

So, I can buy a PD 820, 945 mobo, and 1GB DDR2 for less than the cost of a single lowest end X2 AMD has to offer or should I say preorder. You only see things your way, well you won't get far in life that way. Sometimes you have to see things for what they really are. If I'm not making sense, it's probably because this thread keep morphing into other BS with every post. Sorry.

No, the really big problem here is to choose (and to recommend) a crap product or a good product. I don't care if the crap is in Intel or AMD side. But the fact is, right now, it is in the Intel side. It isn't my problem, It isn't my fault.

For example, look at this and read. This is with a high end heatsink (Zalman 7700CU max rpm):

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentiumd-820_5.html

This is pure crap. This is absolutely unpresentable. I wouldn't pay nor $240 nor $100. Any price for this absurd thing is an assault IMO. No, thank you. Now, everyone buy what they want.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Because it isn't a huge overclocker, you call it crap. Nice. Of course, if you read the whole article and conclusion.

"So, with all certainty, we can recommend using the new Pentium D processors for multi-threaded environments and applications optimized for multi-processor systems. In this type of tasks, the new Intel dual-core CPU can show the best results. If you consider yourself a gamer or if you rarely use multi-threaded applications, you should still go for your ideal choice: Athlon 64."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentiumd-820_16.html

 

[PetNorth]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Because it isn't a huge overclocker, you call it crap.

I call it crap (among other reasons) for extreme heat (and for this reason, loud) and causing throttling. Unacceptable. Not crap, pure crap.

 

[dev0lution]

Why spend a ton of money on marketing to drum up mainstream user demand that you might not be able to meet based on your current fab capacity? Scarcity would just make the prices go up for the rest of us

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Believe me, I can attest to what it costs to run boxes... And $10 more a month will pay for itself in less than 2 years... Now if you have AC, like me, the added heat can also be even more ! Maybe another $5 every month you need AC due to the higher cooling required.

Edit Good point Caveman..... My Antec True 550 EPS is >70% it says, but that can use a lot more than 80% I will have to check those out

I found silent PC review to have best review of PSU's on the net. Very scientific methodolgy if you're interested. Most reviews are just advertisments for free hardware... showing garbage like speed fan.

And yes seasonic owns.

 

[Zebo]

If costs mean something to y'all everyone should be using Durons. At $40 nothing can touch them price/performance.

I built a comp for my sis for $250 total with a 1.8 duron OC to 2250Mhz and it's fast as hell... well plus a 19" LCD which she really appreciated..

I even used this purdy mid to high end case
http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/vi...-173-007&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE

 

[imported_Technomancer]

Originally posted by: redhatlinux
Does ANYBODY in this forum understand pipeline design, branch prediction, cache schemes etc .. I am an AMD DIEHARD, but running on a Hyper-threading P4 right now. THE P4 clock can run fast because the pipe is SOOOOO long it does almost nothing each cycle. When the pipe steps VERY frequently, the pipe is filled with NOPs (dummie ops blazing away at this high gig speed). A Cache miss on P4 is like DEATH. Translation for those who don't know, high speed, little work per cycle. Lower speed, more work per cycle, much better cache scheme, better pipe design etc etc AMD. BENCHMARKS ARE BULLSH!T. I have re-written, some of IBM's code in the past and gotten a 15% improvement. At pretty much zero cost.
Now to the TOPIC, AMD has VERY small margins, they pretty much sell EVERYTHING they can make and OBTW, the FEDS, ( can't say any more, CLASSIFIED), use lots of AMD64 chips

Intel's Netburst architecture seems to be a complete flop. Cache misses caused due to branch misprediction casue the pipeline to go through a process called 'replay'. Essentially, it has to re-run the whole pipeline through a 'virtual' pipeline from the beginning and delete the first one, because in execution it can't go to the L2 cache, instead it returns erroneous values requiring it to redo the whole pipeline. There's actually an even bigger problem when you consider that this occurs in the virtual pipeline as well, causing a cycle of infinite pipeline flushing without any work being done, so there have to be extra sub-systems to detect and kill or correct the defective virtual pipeline. That's not all; this creates even bigger problems for Hyper Threading, which is itself already hampered by trying to use resources in parallel that can physically only be performed in serial, for example the integer units and the x86 decoder. There's no way around this problem whatsoever with branch predictors that are not 100% accurate and it is a necessary consequence of longer pipelines to ensure that code is not executed incorrectly. Moreso than being slow, code that executes incorrectly due to processor design is unforgivable. There is also no way to optimize code at the software, compile-time or run-time levels to improve this situation. Intel's engineers must solve it.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I prefer Intel because, quite simply, they have never failed me. Whether it be cpu, chipset, or nic card. Why should I change? Intel has been good to me, so I will continue to use them for not only my home, but for the Information technology department I run at my company. Intel made a wrong turn, but that does not mean that they make crap products by any stretch. As far as I have been reading and hearing, AMD has done a terrific job with their superior CPU's. All they succeeded in doing was to wake up Intel.
It is pretty much evident with Pat Gelsinger confirming that Netburst is history. So, fortunately, I have a great deal of patience. I can wait till this Dual Core Prescott fiasco blows over and then we will get to the real juicy stuff in Q1/Q2 2006.

This is the kind of attitude that many top execs make, they don't know that AMD is currently better, and say "Intel has been good to me, so why change ?" Thus our IT department wants opteron servers, but upper management says no. (we have 120,000 employees, and 4.000 just in IT to give you an idea of the size) right NOW we need some good replacement servers that are faster, and for what they are used for the Opterons are cheaper and faster for the intended use. We are talking upwards of 100 servers this year (not counting the mainframes were are adding, just wintel boxes).

You on the other hand know they are better and are waiting "just because" and that to me is just stupid. Nothing personal, but get real.... This kind of attitude at my comany makes me angry, because the cash comes out of MY pocket, and the slower response makes life hard for ME. Thus the same attitude when I see it makes me upset to see it continue anywhere.

You might have to upgrade 100 servers right now, but I don't. All of our servers are relatively new (less than 3 years) and are still plenty fast enough. Yes, I KNOW that AMD has better offerings RIGHT NOW (sorry for caps) but I don't have to buy right now. I can wait and may I ask what the F is stupid about that? I know you say its nothing personal, but get real? What upsets you is that I, like thousands of other companies just plain old refuse to buy AMD. We have no reason to. No reason. We don't need the extra 15 seconds to compile data or the extra fps in DoomIII or whatever. You guys just don't get it. I am not a zealot for Intel. I'm just sticking with them and I am not trying to convince anyone to not buy AMD. Yes I corrected a few people in here about the costs to go Intel, but that was just a couple of factoids.
Mark, go nuts man. Buy your hundreds of AMD Opteron servers and have a blast.

And Pet North, The only reason you believe Intel is crap right now is because AMD is quicker and cooler and less power hungry. Still does not justify you calling it crap just because you say so. Most of us pretty much know better.

Cheers.

 

[Markfw]

What upsets you is that I, like thousands of other companies just plain old refuse to buy AMD. We have no reason to. No reason. We don't need the extra 15 seconds to compile data or the extra fps in DoomIII or whatever.

So what is this ? I said for what we do, the AMD is faster and less exspensive, can you READ ? I don't actually believe you are a manager based on your replies here, sorry if I am wrong, but you are just talking crap. At the moment there is NO reason to buy ANY Intel chip for ANY purpose that I can see. AMD owns every area (except the 'M' for laptops, those are good for battery....)

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

What upsets you is that I, like thousands of other companies just plain old refuse to buy AMD. We have no reason to. No reason. We don't need the extra 15 seconds to compile data or the extra fps in DoomIII or whatever.

So what is this ? I said for what we do, the AMD is faster and less exspensive, can you READ ? I don't actually believe you are a manager based on your replies here, sorry if I am wrong, but you are just talking crap. At the moment there is NO reason to buy ANY Intel chip for ANY purpose that I can see. AMD owns every area (except the 'M' for laptops, those are good for battery....)

You are wrong and I accept your apology. You must think I don't follow these trends in the CPU wars. By this time next year, when I might be ready to upgrade a percentage of our servers, Intel just might be making AMD cry by then. Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm no fool if that's what your thinking. Like I said, we don't need to buy any servers right now. So I don't have to buy Intel, or AMD until maybe next year. Why you think I'm talking crap, I have no idea. Is it because I don't agree with your mentality on the subject or that you don't agree with mine? Probably. And that's a pretty cheap shot. We are talking about CPU's here dude, not each others mothers.

 

[Zebo]

Intel like most everything made is USA is garbage... going downhill...cars, homes and processors.. marketing instead of substance.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

What upsets you is that I, like thousands of other companies just plain old refuse to buy AMD. We have no reason to. No reason. We don't need the extra 15 seconds to compile data or the extra fps in DoomIII or whatever.

So what is this ? I said for what we do, the AMD is faster and less exspensive, can you READ ? I don't actually believe you are a manager based on your replies here, sorry if I am wrong, but you are just talking crap. At the moment there is NO reason to buy ANY Intel chip for ANY purpose that I can see. AMD owns every area (except the 'M' for laptops, those are good for battery....)

In the business world, there are many reasons to buy a server w/ an intel chip.

1. Server brand that company purchases from only uses Intel chips
2. To reduce multiple technical support contracts and/or pricing, you stick with particular server brand
3. Pricing - based on business relationship with vendor, purchasing volume, etc.
4. Less costly to maintain and support only one particular brand

You get my drift...

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Intel like most everything made is USA is garbage... going downhill...cars, homes and processors.. marketing instead of substance.

Wow! Sad thing is if in a couple of years, Intel does produce a better processor, Zebo will be saying all of this about AMD. Still can't figure why some people get so passionate or a little inanimate object.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Zebo
Intel like most everything made is USA is garbage... going downhill...cars, homes and processors.. marketing instead of substance.

Wow! Sad thing is if in a couple of years, Intel does produce a better processor, Zebo will be saying all of this about AMD. Still can't figure why some people get so passionate or a little inanimate object.

Well they did steal a couple AMD engineers who built A64 so you never know if the sales crew stops leading the company.

BTW- all my comments on this subject are tonge and cheek About as rediculus as only using intel.

 

[Capt Caveman]

No problem man. I'm thinking to make everyone happy. I may hold onto my Intel set-up but get a Pentium D 830 but still get a X2 4400+

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Markfw900

What upsets you is that I, like thousands of other companies just plain old refuse to buy AMD. We have no reason to. No reason. We don't need the extra 15 seconds to compile data or the extra fps in DoomIII or whatever.

So what is this ? I said for what we do, the AMD is faster and less exspensive, can you READ ? I don't actually believe you are a manager based on your replies here, sorry if I am wrong, but you are just talking crap. At the moment there is NO reason to buy ANY Intel chip for ANY purpose that I can see. AMD owns every area (except the 'M' for laptops, those are good for battery....)

In the business world, there are many reasons to buy a server w/ an intel chip.

1. Server brand that company purchases from only uses Intel chips
2. To reduce multiple technical support contracts and/or pricing, you stick with particular server brand
3. Pricing - based on business relationship with vendor, purchasing volume, etc.
4. Less costly to maintain and support only one particular brand

You get my drift...

1) we purchase from many places/vendors
2) You don't understand at our size this isn't an issue.
3) Exactly why we want to go with AMD (except managment)
4) Not an issue at our size again.

You guys don't understand whats its like to be a multi-billion dollar company, maybe even bigger than Intel in revenue(don't want to give out too much info)...

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: PetNorth

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Because it isn't a huge overclocker, you call it crap.

I call it crap (among other reasons) for extreme heat (and for this reason, loud) and causing throttling. Unacceptable. Not crap, pure crap.

What I said.

 

[carlosd]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

What upsets you is that I, like thousands of other companies just plain old refuse to buy AMD. We have no reason to. No reason. We don't need the extra 15 seconds to compile data or the extra fps in DoomIII or whatever.

So what is this ? I said for what we do, the AMD is faster and less exspensive, can you READ ? I don't actually believe you are a manager based on your replies here, sorry if I am wrong, but you are just talking crap. At the moment there is NO reason to buy ANY Intel chip for ANY purpose that I can see. AMD owns every area (except the 'M' for laptops, those are good for battery....)

This guy is really just another intel fool, please markfw900 don't waste your time on him. Let him have the CRAPPY CPUs, this is what he deserves for being a fool.