This is why Linux will never take over the desktop...

[sweenish]

I don't think anyone really expects Linux to take over anything...

That's funny. Didn't you know this was the year of Linux?

In any case this thread shows that's never the case. And with the same confirmation biases and tired arguments.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

And bloody when does the end user need to configure a Samba share, or anything else even remotely like that? You may as well say Windows isn't ready for the desktop because configuring IIS (*gag*) is beyond the ken of most users.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'd say configuring a samba share is a MUCH more common thing than configuring ISS. I find Linux still has lot of work to do on the desktop side, but server side it is superior, in general. There's still a lot that could be made much easier though. Like read up on what it takes to setup proper security/auth for NFS and it will make your head spin. Sending something into space seems easier.

 

[o306]

Most of this thread confuses me.

You don't need to use the command line to setup, configure, or access a samba share.

It sounds like some of you guys have not actually used a Linux distribution made in at least the last 8+ year or so.

Stop following guides and tutorials from people who have been using Linux forever. If a guide or tutorial uses the command-line, ignore it, they are doing it the hard way (aka the wrong way).

 

[ControlD]

I have had sort of the opposite experience compared to the OP recently. Every so often I grab the latest version of a distro I like and I make myself stick with just Linux for a month or so. I've been running various versions of Linux since 1994, so it is more curiosity than anything else. Usually during that month I find myself booting into Windows from time to time and finally I am back on Windows full time.

This time around (Mint 18), I have found things generally work better under Linux than under Windows. My old Nostromo N52 gamepad works just fine under Linux. The last time it worked properly was probably back in Windows 7, but even then it was flaky. My Nexus 6 is immediately recognized when I connect over USB, no need to install some Motorola driver package. My unRAID network shares have been available since the first boot without having to muck around with any settings at all.

The only bummer is that my Creative sound card doesn't work at all, so I am using on-board audio for now. Still, after a month I have no desire to boot into Windows yet. Even when it comes to gaming I have found all of my favorite games have Linux versions through Steam. I think this time the switch might be for good.

 

[Commodus]

Gonna say what I've said before: the only way Linux is likely to take over the desktop is if a vendor does its best to hide, well, the Linuxness.

The most likely candidate right now is Google's upcoming Andromeda (the union of Android with Chrome OS), and you can be sure that its Linux roots will be virtually invisible to most users. Conventional distributions aren't incredibly difficult to use, but they're trying to beat Apple and Microsoft at their own game... which means they're probably going to lose. Apple and Microsoft not only have momentum on their side, but massive resources. They can guarantee broad hardware support and rapid development for software features. Google sidesteps all that -- it's all about a low-cost gateway to the web (and now mobile apps).

 

[Red Squirrel]

Technically its already happened with Android. The problem with these vendor backed distros is that they are essentially proprietary by the time they're done with them. Full of spy stuff etc too. But I do agree I think it may very well be the only way it will fully take over.

That or the distro makers would need to get together and come up with some standards that they all agree to abide by. For example, the whole idea that each distro needs it's own packages is absurd. There should only be one way of installing stuff and it should be universal across all distros. So as a software vendor, they should be able to release one package, and it works on all distros.

 

[whm1974]

You guys are whining awful lot. Linux is easy to use these days, hell my dad and stepmother use Linux and both of them can barely use a computer. Very rarely do I have to use the CLI.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You guys are whining awful lot. Linux is easy to use these days, hell my dad and stepmother use Linux and both of them can barely use a computer. Very rarely do I have to use the CLI.

Ask them to get a specific program or configuration working on it. If you can setup a purpose built Linux setup, once its working, it's very easy to use like anything else. It's the setup part, that's not so easy.

I'm still fighting with trying to figure out a proper multi monitor setup so that stuff can't open willy nilly on any monitor it wants, that just drives me insane. To be fair this is a problem in Windows too. I would hope that Linux would address it but it does not although it does do a slightly better job of it. Even running separate X sessions stuff still sometimes goes in the wrong X session and not the one it was launched from.

I had a setup with Synergy and two Raspberry PIs, but synergy kept crashing, so I gave that up. Trying to install a newer version of Synergy and dependency hell got insane that I gave up.

 

[whm1974]

I didn't say Linux is perfect. I'm well aware that it could use some major improvements in some areas.

 

[Raduque]

Linux is, in general a pain to setup and use. But, I will say that it has the best way to install software. You just type in apt-get software name, and it's done.

 

[Mtj]

It's not the OS, it's the software. Until software like Photoshop, Autocad, games, even Office, etc. will not be available on Linux platform, Linux will stay a niche OS.

 

[Mike64]

It's not the OS, it's the software. Until software like Photoshop, Autocad, games, even Office, etc. will not be available on Linux platform, Linux will stay a niche OS.

^ This, at least more or less.

But that does tie in with it being "the OS" since part of the "trouble" with Linux is that there isn't a single, controlling source of just one "flavor" that software developers can write for without worrying about (even minor) variations among platforms, since all but a tiny fraction of users neither can nor would even want to have to deal with fine-tuning the installations for their particular distros, even if it were feasible...

(And then of course there's the not particularly minor issue that Office, probably the 800 (or at least 500) lb Gorilla among the programs mentioned in terms of sheer number of installations, is a Microsoft product and MS obviously has no incentive to write a version for Linux unless they were absolutely pushed against the wall by demand for it, which is about as likely to happen as a snowstorm in hell ...)

 

[whm1974]

^ This, at least more or less.

But that does tie in with it being "the OS" since part of the "trouble" with Linux is that there isn't a single, controlling source of just one "flavor" that software developers can write for without worrying about (even minor) variations among platforms, since all but a tiny fraction of users neither can nor would even want to have to deal with fine-tuning the installations for their particular distros, even if it were feasible...

And yet Steam and it's games work on almost every modern distro...

 

[Red Squirrel]

And yet Steam and it's games work on almost every modern distro...

Steam is a pretty big organization though. I imagine they spent quite a lot of time and effort for it. I also wonder if they take care of packaging the game so the devs can concentrate on actually coding them.

I think one thing that would help Linux big time is a more unified way of installing software so devs don't need to package their stuff a billion times. Of course if an app gets popular enough, each particular distro may actually package it for you.

What would be neat is if repositories worked on all distros though, so while there could be many repos, you would only need a few. I recently ran into an issue where a program I wanted is simply not available at all for my distro because it's not popular enough that nobody bothered to package it, and the devs of that particular program perhaps did not feel like it or maybe they don't maintain it anymore etc. I did not want to have to deal with installing it manually as that is a HUGE pain. Sometimes you get lucky and something "just works" but the more complex/big the program is, the less chance of that happening. The worse is when it wants a specific version of a dependency. It's bad enough when it wants a certain one, often you can just use yum/apt to install it, but you get whatever version that distro has. But when it wants a specific version then you're almost screwed unless you want to install the dependency manually too, while trying not to conflict with the existing one, then that one has more dependencies... next thing you know you have 20 browser tabs and 10 console windows opened doing research and find yourself at the 7th layer of dependency hell. Meanwhile on Windows... "next, next, next done" and the program is installed.

Program installation and the way all that is managed really needs to be streamlined in Linux. Generally the package managers make it easier but the app has to actually be in the repository. They need to come up with a unified way where even apps outside can be installed easily. There is .deb and .rpm, but those typically still involve dependency hell.

 

[whm1974]

Well I've been use Manjaro Linux since last year which is based on Arch. It's a rolling release that works, and it is also user friendly. due to it being a rolling release it's more up to date then most other distros but more stable then Arch and Fedora.
https://manjaro.org/

 

[Mtj]

And yet Steam and it's games work on almost every modern distro...

Forgive my ignorance but does Steam on Linux allow playing Windows games? Is there any AAA title game for Linux?

 

[whm1974]

Forgive my ignorance but does Steam on Linux allow playing Windows games? Is there any AAA title game for Linux?

Steam doesn't, but you can use Wine to play some Windows only titles. And yes there are some AAA titles for Linux. Here are a few:

Civ: Beyond Earth
Wasteland 2 DC
Divinity: Orginal Sin
X-Plane 10
Tomb Raider 2013

 

[ControlD]

Forgive my ignorance but does Steam on Linux allow playing Windows games? Is there any AAA title game for Linux?

Go into the Steam store and filter by SteamOS/Linux. You might be surprised how many games are available, including a good number of AAA titles.

 

[ControlD]

Gonna say what I've said before: the only way Linux is likely to take over the desktop is if a vendor does its best to hide, well, the Linuxness.

The most likely candidate right now is Google's upcoming Andromeda (the union of Android with Chrome OS), and you can be sure that its Linux roots will be virtually invisible to most users. Conventional distributions aren't incredibly difficult to use, but they're trying to beat Apple and Microsoft at their own game... which means they're probably going to lose. Apple and Microsoft not only have momentum on their side, but massive resources. They can guarantee broad hardware support and rapid development for software features. Google sidesteps all that -- it's all about a low-cost gateway to the web (and now mobile apps).

I keep reading over this line and I just can't work it out. I don't think Linux is trying to beat anyone at their own game.

Apple's "game" is end-to-end control which is almost the antithesis of the Linux philosophy. I'm not exactly sure what MS's game is these days. Data collection perhaps.

 

[Mike64]

And yet Steam and it's games work on almost every modern distro...

Honestly, I really just can't comment on that at all, or whether it analogous to the millions of installed WiIndows platforms, especially in professional settings, or the also-numerous-but lower number of Macs in use in that context, since I'm totally unfamiliar with Steam - PC gaming just isn't even a speck on my personal tech-related radar...

ETA: It occurs to me, though, that isn't the Steam "environment" a sort of specialized "operating-system-within-an-operating-system"? In other words, once you have the "overlying" Steam environment set up on a given platform, does each individual game have to be tailored to the underlying (true) operating system itself, or does Steam handle that? If the latter, that doesn't change the basic model, it just moves the system "abstraction" up one layer and so comes back around to there being a single central source controllling the parameters that developers have to work with...

 

[ControlD]

^^
I don't ever see Linux replacing Windows as the default corporate desktop honestly. As a home user desktop I think it is perfectly fine however.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Another issue with Linux not yet being ready for mainstream desktop use is that it tends to be very glitchy, it's great for servers and any "background" stuff and is very stable at that, but it still lacks in the GUI front. It's gotten better but still not there yet.

Case in point, I get this every time I open an excel spreadsheet:



WTF is that crap? (it's suppose to be a message warning about macros) I can't be bothered to google and try to fix it, but there is a lot of weird stuff like that in Linux that you don't get in Windows. I can probably reinstall, and it might be gone, or it might come back, who knows. But I'll probably get some other weird glitch too.

I had another system that used to do this:



I fought so hard with that system... it turned out to be the video card driver, but still, it did not do that in Windows. I still have those two video cards sitting on a shelf, they're useless because of the driver. In windows they were somewhat problematic but not as bad.

 

[ControlD]

That isn't an example of Linux being glitchy. That's an example of a piss poor driver.

You can make the point that hardware support isn't as good under Linux as Windows and that would be true. Still, if Linux is going to be your OS of choice making good hardware decisions has to be part of it. I could say the same thing about myself and my Creative sound card. I wish I had researched Linux compatibility before I bought it.

 

[whm1974]

Yeah Creative Labs used to have great support for Alt-OSes back in the day. But that was a long time ago. Good thing on board audio is good enough these days.