This June was the warmest June on record

[Bart*Simpson]

With sunspot activity currently declining (and the output from the sun cooling) we'll get an expected break from warm weather pretty soon.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/blogs/9883-solar-activity-and-earths-climate.html

 

[Paratus]

It's too bad oil companies can't figure out some way to trap that so we can burn it, I agree. All that wasted methane...

It's best to leave it be. But if it's going to destabilize it would be best to burn it. The CO2 is les damaging than the methane.

 

[Paratus]

With sunspot activity currently declining (and the output from the sun cooling) we'll get an expected break from warm weather pretty soon.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/blogs/9883-solar-activity-and-earths-climate.html

It will make a small difference.
We had a deep minimum from. 05-10

But we still had increasing surface temperatures and ocean heat content. The increasing greenhouse effect will swamp any possible drop in solar output.

 

[Joepublic2]

This is really interesting and it doesn't get much funding from what I can tell:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_wind_power

 

[master_shake_]

This is really interesting and it doesn't get much funding from what I can tell:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_wind_power

nope this is the way things go down.

look at how wonderful that looks.

goodbye property values. hello already bloated power grid.

look how epic this is.

and how would you not want to live here?

also, fuck airports right?

 

[Paratus]

nope this is the way things go down.


look at how wonderful that looks.

goodbye property values. hello already bloated power grid.


look how epic this is.

and how would you not want to live here?


also, fuck airports right?

Doesn't compare to a conservative wonderland like this

Bloated power grid? I just changed my provider to 100% wind at 6.6c/kwh. Bring it on I say.

 

[sandorski]

nope this is the way things go down.

look at how wonderful that looks.

goodbye property values. hello already bloated power grid.

look how epic this is.

and how would you not want to live here?

also, fuck airports right?

Not seeing the point you are trying to make.

 

[master_shake_]

Not seeing the point you are trying to make.

high altitude wind power isn't a program many if any politicians will endorse.

when it comes to green energy this is the half assed solution you get.

and paratus.

6c a kwh is a fucking dream buddy.

here's the truth.

i just remembered they went up again this year.

Ontario electricity rates continue to surge in an upward trend that is far easier to predict than the wind gusts necessary to drive the province’s renewable energy turbines.
As a result of increases that kicked in May 1, the off-peak rate (weekends and holidays, and weekdays 7 p.m.-7 a.m.) is now 8.7 cents per kWh, the mid-peak rate (weekdays 7 a.m.-11 a.m. and 5 p.m.-7 p.m.) is 13.2 cents per kWh, and the on-peak charge (weekdays 11 a.m.-5 p.m.) is now 18 cents per kWh — the highest price ever for electricity under time-of-use (TOU) pricing in Ontario.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/05/01/higher-electricity-rates-kick-in-for-ontario

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

And isn't July supposed to be the hottest too?

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12248614/nasa-high-temperature-satellites-2016-warmest-year-record

I thought i read somewhere that the science is pretty settled on the fact that the climate is heating up. is that correct?

Not looking to start a war, just asking the question.

 

[brycejones]

And isn't July supposed to be the hottest too?

http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/21/12248614/nasa-high-temperature-satellites-2016-warmest-year-record

I thought i read somewhere that the science is pretty settled on the fact that the climate is heating up. is that correct?

Not looking to start a war, just asking the question.

Pretty much and it breaks down into a few camps:

1. Man has nothing to do with it.
2. Its a myth
3. Its happening but its really hard so do nothing
4. what?
5. We need to do something

 

[bshole]

Pretty much and it breaks down into a few camps:

1. Man has nothing to do with it.
2. Its a myth
3. Its happening but its really hard so do nothing
4. what?
5. We need to do something

And
6. It is happening but it is not all that bad. This is the camp that says we wouldn't even know it was bad unless somebody told us it was bad. Never mind the record crop yield and unprecedented global greening.

 

[Paratus]

high altitude wind power isn't a program many if any politicians will endorse.

when it comes to green energy this is the half assed solution you get.

and paratus.

6c a kwh is a fucking dream buddy.

here's the truth.

i just remembered they went up again this year.



http://www.torontosun.com/2016/05/01/higher-electricity-rates-kick-in-for-ontario

Dude what can I tell you Texas is deregulated. Reliant had 6.6c wind. Wife and I couldn't believe it. Our previous was around 10c. I'm waiting for the hidden fees.


Anyway these aren't my plan but they are in the ball park

 

[master_shake_]

Dude what can I tell you Texas is deregulated. Reliant had 6.6c wind. Wife and I couldn't believe it. Our previous was around 10c. I'm waiting for the hidden fees.


Anyway these aren't my plan but they are in the ball park

:biggrin:

my wife and i couldn't believe our last hydro bill either...

550 dollars for 2 months.

water (175) included.

 

[Paratus]

:biggrin:

my wife and i couldn't believe our last hydro bill either...

550 dollars for 2 months.

water (175) included.

I tend not to talk out of my ass

Our electric bills in the summer are ridiculous due to the AC - $300-$400 per month. Hopefully it'll be lower this year.

 

[agent00f]

There are two kinds of certainty. Those who know and know they know and those who think they know and everybody else must think like they do. Good is a state of being, not a philosophical idea. Evil arises out of non-being. Non being exists in time and thought and is of the past. It is the program that runs the Matrix, if you will., a dream full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

Good is what manifests in the actions of a Lover. Evil is the product of thought. Understanding this demands an altered state of awareness.

I admit to not understand much of this, but evolutionary emotional baggage like love/hate & such are what's being manipulated by social institutions for both good & bad outcomes.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I tend not to talk out of my ass

Our electric bills in the summer are ridiculous due to the AC - $300-$400 per month. Hopefully it'll be lower this year.

I know your pain, my was $265 last month and projected to be $300 for this month. I also have a 100% wind plan with Reliant. If I'm not mistaken my rate is 8.5c/kwh. Hopefully they will have the 6.6c/kwh when it's time to renew.

 

[Jaskalas]

Yes because a massive methane release from former permafrost trunda is a good thing.

If you want us scared of methane you'd need indication of a much larger release waiting for us when we surpass the Eemian. As it stands, that observed permafrost melt is nothing new nor special.
That bubbly ground? Nature made that 115k years ago, and again "today".

 

[Jaskalas]

And
6. It is happening but it is not all that bad. This is the camp that says we wouldn't even know it was bad unless somebody told us it was bad. Never mind the record crop yield and unprecedented global greening.

The pending sea level disaster is no joke.

Nor is the stress on crops if they have to redefine their optimal growth latitude at a time when humanity is pushing Earth far beyond capacity. Like our ports, our farming infrastructure cannot just pack up and move. Last time this happened "infrastructure" consisted of a few mud huts, if anything at all.

7. It is happening, and some things are a slow moving disaster.

 

[Eli]

The fact that we can even argue about something so important while in the midst of it.. that's the real slow moving disaster. The biosphere is going to fall out from under us before we've even agreed there is a problem. At this point, it is literally like arguing whether the eye of the incoming category 5 hurricane is going to hit Miami or Fort Lauderdale; it doesn't matter, lots of people are fucked.

I'm sure humans will survive just fine, at least the rich ones. But maybe not. You see... Even 100 years of scarce basic resources would do unimaginable damage to our species, let alone 1,000.. or 10,000. When precipitation patterns change and cropland "moves", it doesn't happen overnight. We don't have 10 years to watch the new precipitation patterns mature - and what if it takes 100, or 1000 years for them to mature? These are such small time scales geologically, but they would extinct most of us.. in a geologic heartbeat.

If any of you don't understand the time scales we are dealing with here, you need to open your eyes. Sure, we would have no problems living on a planet with 1,000PPM CO2 and temps that are 8C warmer than they are now... If we found ourselves in such conditions at the beginning of the industrial revolution. What's the problem, you say? Everything will grow great! Arctic farmland! Easy to armchair quarterback that one.

But that's not the way things are going to play out. We're here right now with 7 billion people and growing, and we can largely no longer rely on the climate we have relied on for the last 10,000 years. We no longer live in our parents climate. It has changed noticeably, in just 30 years. That's bad. We are stripping our planet of resources and causing change on the planetary scale at unfathomable rates - much faster than typical geologic processes. You would have to fast forward perhaps 100,000 years to see a stable planet under the conditions we are advancing - new life beginning to fill all of the empty niches, etc.

I don't know when it's going to get really bad.. but it's not anymore a matter of IF, but WHEN all of these horrible predictions about acidic anoxic oceans losing 90% of their biodiversity, sea level rise, fires, floods, droughts, etc come to be, especially if we continue business as usual. They are already happening. The snowball has been rolling for about 150 years now, and it's finally starting to get really, really big with each year that rolls by. The scientists - the people on the front lines, who witness this stuff first hand, have been yelling and screaming about it for the last 35 years+. But now the snowball is so big that even regular people can see the changes. That's really bad.

We basically have no real idea what we're doing, and that's why so many of us are crying danger. If it takes 10,000 years for our climate to stabilize, we are so very royally fucked. All because we didn't play our exponential growth cards right.

Suppose that's probably the answer to the fermi paradox. Nobody ever does. Bummer.

 

[norseamd]

7. It is happening, and some things are a slow moving disaster.

This.

But also the fact is we know only basic shit about Earth, the environment, the atmosphere, and the climate. There are so many variables and geological/environmental factors, that considering how many we might not know about, climate change might get apocalyptic 2 decades from now, or 12 decades from now.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

It will make a small difference.
We had a deep minimum from. 05-10

But we still had increasing surface temperatures and ocean heat content. The increasing greenhouse effect will swamp any possible drop in solar output.

Here's a more current and much broader perspective of solar irradiance.

 

[bshole]

Nor is the stress on crops if they have to redefine their optimal growth latitude at a time when humanity is pushing Earth far beyond capacity. Like our ports, our farming infrastructure cannot just pack up and move. Last time this happened "infrastructure" consisted of a few mud huts, if anything at all.

7. It is happening, and some things are a slow moving disaster.

Not getting this at all. Each year our yields go up even as the total acreage devoted to farming decrease. Our crops so far outstrip the food demand that an enormous percentage of crop land is devoted to growing crops for ethanol.

Here is a statement made from pure ignorance: "our farming infrastructure cannot just pack up and move". Of course it can just pack up and move and it HAS JUST PACKED UP AND MOVED. A great example of this is pigs. No less than 50 years ago, there were pig/chicken farms all over the country. There were lots of pig/chicken farms right here in Wisconsin. What happened to all of those pig/chicken farms around the nation? THEY ALL PICKED UP AND FUCKING MOVED TO MEGA-FARMS. They did this in the span of a decade or two. 20 frigging years. So farming can move and it can move REAL FUCKING FAST. If there is money to be made, IT WILL MOVE AND EXTREMELY RAPIDLY.

While doing research for his book Pig Tales, author Barry Estabrook visited a farmer in Iowa who raised 150,000 pigs a year. What he saw at this factory farm -- the way 97 percent of pigs in the U.S. are raised -- is a far cry from Old MacDonald's.

 

[Joepublic2]

Here is a statement made from pure ignorance: "our farming infrastructure cannot just pack up and move". Of course it can just pack up and move and it HAS JUST PACKED UP AND MOVED. A great example of this is pigs. No less than 50 years ago, there were pig/chicken farms all over the country. There were lots of pig/chicken farms right here in Wisconsin. What happened to all of those pig/chicken farms around the nation? THEY ALL PICKED UP AND FUCKING MOVED TO MEGA-FARMS. They did this in the span of a decade or two. 20 frigging years. So farming can move and it can move REAL FUCKING FAST. If there is money to be made, IT WILL MOVE AND EXTREMELY RAPIDLY.

It's easy enough to move farms around in regions that have well developed infrastructure, but a lot of this crop land that's opening up is in locations where there's very low population density and thus virtually no infrastructure, like northern Canada, Siberia, central Russia etc. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's not going to be anywhere near as easy or cheap as you're making it out to be.

The world as a whole needs to work harder at developing better energy sources IMO, including safer and cleaner forms of fission power which so far is the only thing that looks like it has a chance of replacing baseline power production currently provided by oil/coal/nat gas. There's a lot of promising ideas, too, that aren't receiving anywhere near the funding or research they deserve like bio-diesel, deep well geothermal, high altitude wind etc.

 

[bshole]

It's easy enough to move farms around in regions that have well developed infrastructure, but a lot of this crop land that's opening up is in locations where there's very low population density and thus virtually no infrastructure, like northern Canada, Siberia, central Russia etc. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's not going to be anywhere near as easy or cheap as you're making it out to be.

The world as a whole needs to work harder at developing better energy sources IMO, including safer and cleaner forms of fission power which so far is the only thing that looks like it has a chance of replacing baseline power production currently provided by oil/coal/nat gas. There's a lot of promising ideas, too, that aren't receiving anywhere near the funding or research they deserve like bio-diesel, deep well geothermal, high altitude wind etc.

You are correct about developing better energy sources. We have a limited amount of time before the fossil fuels run out. I actually like the idea of tidal energy buoys.

 

[agent00f]

It's easy enough to move farms around in regions that have well developed infrastructure, but a lot of this crop land that's opening up is in locations where there's very low population density and thus virtually no infrastructure, like northern Canada, Siberia, central Russia etc. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's not going to be anywhere near as easy or cheap as you're making it out to be.

The world as a whole needs to work harder at developing better energy sources IMO, including safer and cleaner forms of fission power which so far is the only thing that looks like it has a chance of replacing baseline power production currently provided by oil/coal/nat gas. There's a lot of promising ideas, too, that aren't receiving anywhere near the funding or research they deserve like bio-diesel, deep well geothermal, high altitude wind etc.

That's not really it. The initial movement mentioned was desirable due to increased economy of scale, so whatever fixed cost of the move is amortized over time with better profits. The move itself without which is obvious just a pointless cost.