This Mostly White City Wants To Leave Its Mostly Black School District

[pauldun170]

Disclaimer....
Found this mildly interesting earlier today. Tossed all this together but left it unposted. Browser window was sitting here and flipped a coin (garbage pail basketball shot decided) whether to chuck or post

Anyone familiar with Alabama education system or lives Jefferson County want to chime in? (Familiar meaning you work in education, have children in the system or understand laws\regulations.)


http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016...nts-to-leave-its-mostly-black-school-district

This Mostly White City Wants To Leave Its Mostly Black School District

DeVonte Kirkland is in his second to last year of school at Center Point High in Jefferson County, just outside of Birmingham, Ala. When he graduates next year he wants to head to Alabama State University.

DeVonte also wants a car, so he's taking some serious time to learn how to work on them. Every day, he rides a school bus 25 minutes, each direction, for an auto tech class at Gardendale High, another school on the south side of the district.

Unlike the Jefferson County schools on whole, the student body inside Gardendale's schools is mostly white. At Gardendale, DeVonte says, he's making friends, many of whom don't look like him. "Sometimes we see each other out of school, and we talk in school too. I'm learning something new from them every day," he says.

Next year, though, Gardendale's programs might not be an option for DeVonte and hundreds of other students from around Jefferson County.

Several years ago, voters in the city of Gardendale raised property taxes on themselves to try to start their own school district. The mayor of the city, Stan Hogeland, says the proposal to leave the county school system doesn't have anything to do with race, but calls it a move to do what's best for the kids in the city. "If we had our school system, with a local superintendent, and a local board that lives in town that you see when you go shopping or at church," there would be more accountability, he says.



The final decision, though, is up to a federal judge who could decide, any day now, whether Gardendale is violating civil rights if it pulls out of the Jefferson County school district.

Since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that separate is not equal, some 60 years ago, federal courts have kept an eye on specific school districts across the country that showed a tendency toward segregation. One of those districts is Jefferson County.

The oversight dates back to 1971 when several African-American residents sued the district for segregating black and white children, and won. Since then, the federal courts have had the final say on any movement in or out of the district.

"Nobody has ever said anything to me about the real reason why they want to form their own system," says Craig Pouncey, superintendent of the schools in Jefferson County.

If Gardendale splinters off, he says, it'll disrupt the larger district's efforts to desegregate. "Diversity actually builds strength, in my opinion. Because it opens people's minds. Now, I've seen where our schools, particularly in the last two years, have really thrived on that diversity."

If Gardendale leaves, it won't just hurt diversity. It could also take with it money, some staff, and special programs like the auto tech class DeVonte Kirkland buses to.

"I don't fault a city for wanting to do this, but they have to be mindful of the overall impact," says Pouncey.

But leaders in Gardendale have tried to make the case that what they're doing is best for their kids. They claim they aren't violating civil rights, and aren't segregating. Part of the plan allows about 700 African-American students from one specific area to remain in the new majority-white system, even though they live outside city limits.

The federal judge will soon decide whether that makes the system truly desegregated.

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/ma...hool-district-but-it-says-its-not-about-race/

Nonetheless, if Gardendale manages to pull off its exit, it would significantly hurt Jefferson County because the city’s tax revenues would no longer be available to fund the school district.

Jefferson County
http://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/01073
Gardendale
http://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/0129056

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2013/11/breakaway_school_districts_are.html

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/11/to_split_or_not_to_split_garde.html

 

[senseamp]

Alabama...Keep Calm and Fly Over.

 

[Mxylplyx]

I live in the Birmingham metro area. Birmingham, like many cities around the country, has experienced white flight out into the suburbs, leaving the inner city a predominantly poor minority community with chronically under-performing schools with all the problems that are typical of serving struggling communities with high crime rates and broken families. One could not blame Gardendale residents for choosing to stop subsidizing the poorer schools in the Birmingham school district and invest their tax base in their own schools. This is really just a symptom of a broader failure in the way we as a nation choose to fund our schools. The poorer communities that cannot adequately fund their own schools end up getting inferior educations which just perpetuates the cycle of poverty that prevails in their communities.

 

[glenn1]

While voters in Gardendale voted to flee Jefferson County years ago, the city is waiting on a federal judge to rule whether its plan violates the civil rights of the district’s black citizens.

Good thing the white kids in Gardendale don't have civil rights, else the judge might need to take those into consideration also.

 

[Svnla]

Is this the same Jefferson County that went bankrupt a few years ago? http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...reatest-financial-ripoffs-of-all-time-2011-10

Part of Baton Rouge is trying to do the same. To create a new entity with the name St. George. http://www.nola.com/news/baton-rouge/index.ssf/2015/06/st_george_petition_comes_up_sh.html

 

[Sunburn74]

I live in the Birmingham metro area. Birmingham, like many cities around the country, has experienced white flight out into the suburbs, leaving the inner city a predominantly poor minority community with chronically under-performing schools with all the problems that are typical of serving struggling communities with high crime rates and broken families. One could not blame Gardendale residents for choosing to stop subsidizing the poorer schools in the Birmingham school district and invest their tax base in their own schools. This is really just a symptom of a broader failure in the way we as a nation choose to fund our schools. The poorer communities that cannot adequately fund their own schools end up getting inferior educations which just perpetuates the cycle of poverty that prevails in their communities.

Betsy devos will totally fix that though with her voucher programs.

 

[interchange]

I have no connection to that community, but in general I think that geographic segregation is a major reinforcer of racial inequity. People will say it's income or class based, but it readily gets tied to unconscious biases based on race and none of those things. The way to challenge unconscious biases is not through education. If anything, in my mind, teaching someone that there is no difference between races in such concrete terms without giving them experiences to back it up leaves someone with a huge well of conflicting and unacceptable feelings. And these feelings with no way to safely navigate them ensure they will never, in fact, give themselves the experience to learn that people are people independent of skin color.

Diversity in education, right from the beginning, is a great way to combat racial inequity. But, I'm not going to send my child to an inner city school to provide that diversity. What parent would voluntarily disadvantage their child, independent of racial diversity? Affluent schools not accepting of disadvantaged kids from neighboring communities is a totally different scenario.

 

[MovingTarget]

I live in the Birmingham metro area. Birmingham, like many cities around the country, has experienced white flight out into the suburbs, leaving the inner city a predominantly poor minority community with chronically under-performing schools with all the problems that are typical of serving struggling communities with high crime rates and broken families. One could not blame Gardendale residents for choosing to stop subsidizing the poorer schools in the Birmingham school district and invest their tax base in their own schools. This is really just a symptom of a broader failure in the way we as a nation choose to fund our schools. The poorer communities that cannot adequately fund their own schools end up getting inferior educations which just perpetuates the cycle of poverty that prevails in their communities.

QFT. This is happening to more than just the Birmingham metro area, but to every large district in the state. I know the same has happened in both Tuscaloosa, Montgomery, and Mobile. We have essentially re-segregated ourselves. It used to be that you would have the federal government preventing these types of situations, but that hasn't been the case for years. This is also why having Jeff Sessions as the US Attorney General or DeVos as Secretary of Education should be far more alarming.

https://www.propublica.org/article/segregation-now-the-resegregation-of-americas-schools/#intro
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/DA/20140416/News/605148809/TL/

 

[chucky2]

I mean, who wouldn't want to sign up for something like this: https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/...forcollegecoursework&Schoolid=070162270170001

 

[gotsmack]

I don't see what is wrong with this. I grew up in North NJ and it's like that. Each town has its own police, fire, school, library.

Also each town in North NJ is about a mile radius and is right next to another town on all sides. You literally cross a certain street and you're in another town. Property taxes are also high tho.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Betsy devos will totally fix that though with her voucher programs.

She'll likely do better than Arne Duncan...hard not to improve when the bar is so damn low to begin with. Liberals always talk a good game but when it gets down to brass tacks they fail time and time again.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamas-education-report-card-1446074804

 

[interchange]

I don't see what is wrong with this. I grew up in North NJ and it's like that. Each town has its own police, fire, school, library.

Also each town in North NJ is about a mile radius and is right next to another town on all sides. You literally cross a certain street and you're in another town. Property taxes are also high tho.

There is not anything "wrong" with it inherently, but I don't think it's good for our country. Here's a segment from John Oliver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8yiYCHMAlM

Yes he is the host of a comedic TV show and biased. I'm posting so that you can see why someone might think it is not the right thing to do.

 

[bshole]

She'll likely do better than Arne Duncan...hard not to improve when the bar is so damn low to begin with. Liberals always talk a good game but when it gets down to brass tacks they fail time and time again.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamas-education-report-card-1446074804

With regards to education, you do concede that the problem is ridiculously complex do you not? In many inner cities, you have entire communities with a majority of students having dysfunctional families. It is depressing as all hell and if there is a solution to it I have not the foggiest idea what it is. I don't think it is fair to throw liberals under the bus for this particular issue. The right do not care about the inner city poor and would prefer to pull all education funding from them. At least the left is trying (and perhaps not succeeding) in helping the situation.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

With regards to education, you do concede that the problem is ridiculously complex do you not? In many inner cities, you have entire communities with a majority of students having dysfunctional families. It is depressing as all hell and if there is a solution to it I have not the foggiest idea what it is. I don't think it is fair to throw liberals under the bus for this particular issue. The right do not care about the inner city poor and would prefer to pull all education funding from them. At least the left is trying (and perhaps not succeeding) in helping the situation.

Complex or not...I don't want excuses...I want results. Duncan failed and I'm hoping DeVos does better.

 

[Sunburn74]

She'll likely do better than Arne Duncan...hard not to improve when the bar is so damn low to begin with. Liberals always talk a good game but when it gets down to brass tacks they fail time and time again.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/obamas-education-report-card-1446074804

Are you kidding me? Voucher programs only worsen education inequalities and promote segregation by allowing people to allocate funding where they want, private schools included. If Betsy Devos had her way, if you're a rich guy in a nice neighborhood instead of your taxes going to a general fund in at least some degree, instead it goes to a voucher program and you can choose to spend it on the "educationally exclusive" private school down the street. So instead of at least some money from rich areas going to poor areas with our current systems, now no money from rich areas will go to poor areas and private schools can just say "no" to students of color when they approach for enrollment "based on educational merit" when really its based on race. Areas that are poor however will have less funding overall as well and so the schools only worsen. That's not even talking about her favoring for profit charter schools for low income students and the general disaster that is as well.

Its one thing to say no progress was made. its another thing to elect someone will actively poison the system. Hoping Devos will do better is stupid. Her policies are known to educators and researchers to be poison for the poor and middle class.

 

[senseamp]

If you live in one of those states and have kids, your best bet for their future is to move elsewhere. Even the best schools aren't good enough to be competitive in the modern world.

 

[glenn1]

There is not anything "wrong" with it inherently, but I don't think it's good for our country. Here's a segment from John Oliver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8yiYCHMAlM

Yes he is the host of a comedic TV show and biased. I'm posting so that you can see why someone might think it is not the right thing to do.

The ghetto city kids are going down the crapper no matter what. The question you need to ask yourself is whether suburban kids should get lashed to those city kids and dragged down to the bottom with them. Because equally terrible education is more important than allowing some to have an unequally excellent education.

 

[Jhhnn]

The ghetto city kids are going down the crapper no matter what. The question you need to ask yourself is whether suburban kids should get lashed to those city kids and dragged down to the bottom with them. Because equally terrible education is more important than allowing some to have an unequally excellent education.

So, FYGM, obviously. That seems to be your POV in general.

 

[Jhhnn]

Are you kidding me? Voucher programs only worsen education inequalities and promote segregation by allowing people to allocate funding where they want, private schools included. If Betsy Devos had her way, if you're a rich guy in a nice neighborhood instead of your taxes going to a general fund in at least some degree, instead it goes to a voucher program and you can choose to spend it on the "educationally exclusive" private school down the street. So instead of at least some money from rich areas going to poor areas with our current systems, now no money from rich areas will go to poor areas and private schools can just say "no" to students of color when they approach for enrollment "based on educational merit" when really its based on race. Areas that are poor however will have less funding overall as well and so the schools only worsen. That's not even talking about her favoring for profit charter schools for low income students and the general disaster that is as well.

Its one thing to say no progress was made. its another thing to elect someone will actively poison the system. Hoping Devos will do better is stupid. Her policies are known to educators and researchers to be poison for the poor and middle class.

Vouchers are useless to people who don't have the money to add to them to send their kids to private schools. They're also very destructive to public schools in general because the most capable parents become dis-involved with them.

 

[glenn1]

So, FYGM, obviously. That seems to be your POV in general.

So that's one person who wants the suburban kids to get dragged down. Unfortunately for you most of the people who vote like you want their kids away from poor blacks also. And the bluest Democrat voting places are the most segregated.

 

[senseamp]

I (Caucasian kid on welfare at the time) went to a Magnet program in an inner city HS that was about 1% white. One of my best decisions.
I learned a lot of stuff outside of school, and established myself right away as academic top dog, and was the designated "success story" smart kid, and they let me do basically whatever I wanted. Take any classes I wanted, whenever I wanted. I had a year of college in AP credits when I graduated. But that's not all. I got into a fight, I got off with a warning, can't have the one kid heading to an Ivy League college from the whole school in years suspended or expelled, now can you? Excellent hand written recommendations from many teachers. Great "overcoming adversity" story for college application essays and interviews. And actually a damn good education, the teachers were mostly top notch, wouldn't really trade them for anyone else.
YMMV of course, not all inner city schools are diamonds in the rough, but it's not just the hand you are dealt, it's how you play it. I could have taken the bus to a rich mostly white school, but then I would be the designated poor kid as opposed to the designated smart kid. Big difference psychologically. I don't think it would have been as good on balance.

 

[Jhhnn]

So that's one person who wants the suburban kids to get dragged down. Unfortunately for you most of the people who vote like you want their kids away from poor blacks also. And the bluest Democrat voting places are the most segregated.

It's just a way for affluent suburbanites to cheap out on urban folks who pay the rent out to the richest 'burbs every month, whose neighborhoods are blighted by neglect & wealth extraction.

 

[LevelSea]

Can't blame them for wanting to GTFO out Bham. The school system is just one if many problems. City council quadruples its salary and fisticuffs with the mayor, water works problems, bankruptcy, etc.

 

[Jhhnn]

Can't blame them for wanting to GTFO out Bham. The school system is just one if many problems. City council quadruples its salary and fisticuffs with the mayor, water works problems, bankruptcy, etc.

It's what happens when you get dumped by the Jerb Creators.

 

[LevelSea]

It's what happens when you get dumped by the Jerb Creators.

Of course, those evil rethuglicans that run Birmingham are to blame lol