This whole Mac vs. PC debate

[Sunner]

My bad, I misunderstood the part about UNIX vs NT/2000, I agree mostly, but I do believe that Linux has taken marketshare in light web/mail/news etc servers that needn't been critical but cheap.

As for the home users, just compare the pace at which MacOS has developed and the pace at which Linux has developed.
With a development pace like this one, I believe it can be a fully viable alternative to Windows with a few years.
The major headaches I can see users having with Linux is, in no particular order:
Misc libs, having to see messages about having the wrong version of glibs etc etc makes me wanna puke.
Drivers, installation of drivers needs to become ALOT easier.
Standards, Linux really needs some cross distro standardisation, right now its not uncommon to see "RedHat compatible" when it should say
"Distribution with Kernel 2.2+, Glibc 2.0+" etc.

As for the G4, I wonder if Motorola really doesnt care.
Apple has increased its market share from ~4% to ~10% in a short time.
If it garners some suppotr from developers(and from what I hear developers get alot of support from Apple, and support is a two way street) it become a major home user platform.
Cause lets face it, for a homeuser who's a complete computer illiterate, a Mac is a very good alternative to a PC, since its more like a gaming console, its closed and properiarity for most part, but thats also what makes it work out of the box.

 

[Eug]

""2 years ago installing Linux was often a pain, today, installing RedHat 6.2 or Caldera OpenLinux is just as easy as installing Windows."

Becaues of my Promise Ultra 66, RedHat 6.0 (drivers wouldn't work with 6.2 or any other distribution easily) took me about 6-8 HOURS to install. Sure, I'm a newbie, but BeOS took me all of 10 minutes.

However, I use neither, and both have since been purged from my machine.

Linux has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go. I haven't seen as cheesy an install setup as the current RedHat one since the days of Windows 3.1 and Windows 95. With that type of philosophy, Linux will have an extremely hard time hitting mainstream in the home market. Not everyone is a network administrator.

 

[Sunner]

Eug, dont try telling me that you need to be a network admin to understand the RedHat installer.
Its not as fancy as the windows one, but its just as easy.
Of course a newbie is gonna get a headache from the network setup, but heck, just skip it and leave it all at default settings.

 

[Eug]

No, it's easy if everything is supported. If it isn't, then it's back to the feared command prompt. Definite pain in the arse.

 

[BoberFett]

Ben

This is OT, but:

<< The Wankel when compared to piston internal combustion engines certainly looked to be great, the fact is that they could never get by the &quot;minor&quot; issues that they had with fuel consumption and emissions. >>

Have you ever driven an RX7? If you have, you'd know that fuel efficiency is the furthest things from your mind when you're tooling down the road in one of those beautiful beasts.

OK, now back to the discussion. I say Macs suck!

 

[Soccerman]

why do you say back to the feared command prompt? becuase you need to configure the OS for a device that's SIMILAR to the one u have?

heh, yeah Benskywalker, I was being kindof.. mean? on that post. just had to get someone's attention on that issue.

I don't understand what you mean by if it's not running the Mac OS it's not a Mac? WTF? isn't that like saying if your PC isn't running Windows, or using an Intel chip, it's not a PC? (we all know that's not true) or maybe you're saying it's not a Wintel.. that would make more sense.

So what is OSX built on again? Be? I thought (rather assumed.. my bad) that it was Linux, because of the terminology being used about the OS, such as Windows Manager etc..

Now, there are more then 2 advantages for Linux..

1) More stable
2) Not using MS software
3) VERY ADAPTEABLE.

they already have limited USB support, and the amount of devices being supported (eg, videocards, soundcards) has increased. You should be bugging you're manufacturer to get Drivers out, not the people who make linux.

Linux can look alot like windows too, if you wanted it to. even make it look like a Mac for crying out loud (alot more like a Mac then you can a Windows machine).

Linux has sooo many little options like that, it's mind boggling for the first time Linux user.. My only problem with Linux, is how you configure you're OS if you're devices aren't working properly (ie modem, half the time you have to edit a huge text file to enable the UART 16550 or whatever that was...).

 

[RSI]

Mac's suck. PPC systems are good - but Mac's suck. Wintel sucks. x86 systems are good - but Wintel systems suck.

See my point? The software is what matters... Mac's are more expensive for everything (including hardware), plus you can run more stuff on an x86 system - and at 900MHz w/256MB RAM and an awesome video accelerator, do you honestly think you'll be complaining when video editing? For the same price as that x86 system, what kind of a Mac would you get? A 350? A 400? Maybe a 450? Also, look at the rest of the crappy hardware you'll receive for the same price.

It's simple, PCs ARE better, in every respect. Apple is just like Microsoft in a way, all they care about is marketing their stuff so it sells - not designing it so that it's good for the people buying it.

If you want a server, get some Unix-based machine, and I wouldn't buy a PPC from Apple, because that would be a waste of money.

If you need a system for personal use - either build it yourself, come here and get help building it yourself, or buy from Dell, Gateway, HP, etc - quite a bit better than buying an Apple.

Just my comments on things here..

And a side note on operating systems... Linux, BeOS and Windows NT do not work on my P83. I think the Linux deal might have to do with my drive overlay somehow, but I could never get it working. BeOS doesn't support my hardware supposedly - and Windows NT would not complete installation. So unfortunately, I'm stuck with the operating system I hate most - Windows 95/98 (using 98 on both now).

So it looks like for hardware support, nothing beats Windows 9x. But that doesn't make it a good operating system, it's still garbage in my opinion. The only thing I would hate to use more is the current Mac operating system. If I could get Linux working I would love to use it... but unfortunately my Mandrake 6.0 is not quite so easy to set up as Windows 9x, and it doesn't support my network card, etc... and it doesn't seem to want to work. Oh well.

BTW, great discussion everybody.

-RSI

 

[RSI]

&quot;I don't understand what you mean by if it's not running the Mac OS it's not a Mac?&quot;

I understood what he meant. Macs run Mac OS. If it isn't running the Mac OS, how can it be considered a Mac, when in reality it is simply a Power PC system running Linux PPC or whatever other operating system?

X86 systems shouldn't be referred to as the only PCs anyway, because since PC only means personal computer, Macs are PCs as well.

An x86 system running Windows can be called a &quot;Wintel&quot; system or a &quot;Windoze Machine&quot;... but I wouldn't call it Wintel, since that refers to a system using an Intel processor running Windows, and nowadays there are plenty of AMD systems out there, and I'm sure the users wouldn't appreciate it being called a &quot;Wintel&quot; system.

-RSI

 

[Eug]

&quot;why do you say back to the feared command prompt? becuase you need to configure the OS for a device that's SIMILAR to the one u have?&quot;

No, in order to install the device drivers for my Promise card it requires entering specific commands at the command prompt, since the RedHat installer does not work with it.

Now, I can do that, but the point is that 99% of the population wouldn't even attempt it. I managed to succeed... having grown up with DOS I don't actually fear the command prompt as much most people would. As far as I'm concerned, for the consumer market Linux is completely inadequate.

Now for Sunner, the comment about the RedHat installer being cheesy wasn't that the looks make it bad per se, but it does illustrate the extreme immaturity of the platform for the non-techie consumer.

Even though I do not like it and think it's somewhat crappy, I would not hesitate to recommend Mac OS 9 (or Windows) over Linux anyday to someone who just wants a computer to surf and word process on, even if they have a very low end machine.

 

[Sunner]

Eug, Ill agree on that last part, for a newbie who wants nothing but surfing and some office usage, I'd recomend a Mac over Linux anyday.
In fact, if he/she had some money to burn, Id probabaly recomend a Mac over a Wintel as well, simply cause of its ease of use.

However, the comment that a Mac is not a Mac when its running something other than Mac OS is not correct by the words actual meaning.
A Mac is short for a Macintosh, which is the computer itself, it will be a Mac no matter whats running on it.
But since Mac OS is a major part of this discussion, I agree that a Mac in this particular discussion would include MacOS.

 

[ElFenix]

i think macs have more irqs than pcs...

 

[Soccerman]

actually I think Mac's don't even HAVE IRQ's, but don't quote me on that....

 

[Shazam]

I miss my Commodore 64.

 

[Sunner]

Soccerman, it does have IRQ's, they're just completely transparent to the user.
Why miss it Shazam, just buy a new one, Im looking around for a new Amiga myself, damn those are cheap these days.
The Amiga was IMO the best comp ever created, and by far at that, it was nothing short of genius *sobbing nostalgically*

 

[Soccerman]

well my friend has an Amiga still.. I wish I could try it out!

I wonder how different the world would have been if the Amiga kept going...

 

[Sunner]

We'd have comps that worked, great games, and I would be very very happy, oh how I love Amiga's...