Those that question 939 Upgradability

[GhandiInstinct]

http://neoseeker.com/news/story/3783/

For those not keeping track, the dual core chips are supposed to be pin compatible and will just drop into existing solutions. Of course you and I cannot buy the chips until sometime next year unfortunately.

I don't know about you guys, but this makes me very excited, for one... I'm saving a lot of money with not having to buy a new mobo. By then, I'll have the best AGP, which will run every game super-smooth, 2GB of ram. And I'll be set for two years.

 

[Sonic587]

With a simple upgrade path to more efficient computing, based on AMD's existing system infrastructure and industry-standard architecture, enterprise customers will have more efficient processing power without the penalties of increased power consumption and heat dissipation.

Very exciting.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Sonic587

With a simple upgrade path to more efficient computing, based on AMD's existing system infrastructure and industry-standard architecture, enterprise customers will have more efficient processing power without the penalties of increased power consumption and heat dissipation.

Very exciting.

So they are doubling the tranny count and say the power draw and heat dissipation will be the same? i very very seriously doubt AMD has broke the laws of physics

 

[JBT]

Awsome, even though every time I get a new CPU I ussually get a new mobo anyways.

 

[Wahsapa]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Sonic587

With a simple upgrade path to more efficient computing, based on AMD's existing system infrastructure and industry-standard architecture, enterprise customers will have more efficient processing power without the penalties of increased power consumption and heat dissipation.

Very exciting.

So they are doubling the tranny count and say the power draw and heat dissipation will be the same? i very very seriously doubt AMD has broke the laws of physics

im willing to bet beacuse of the 90nm transition it wont be as hot. also i bet the wont be clocked as high so power consumption will be down.

im saving pennys for a 939 nforce4 w/sli :thumbsup: such a long wait. cant wait for dual core. and i cant wait to see the compition dual m's will provide.

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: JBT
Awsome, even though every time I get a new CPU I ussually get a new mobo anyways.

i am the same way...

 

[Shimmishim]

but who questions upgradability of 939? i think most people question the upgradability of 754 more so than 939...

the only thing is that 939 will have lots of cool stuff to go with it soon...

such as ddr2 and pci-e...

i know nforce4 will feature pci-e at the least...

at least for me, it's not worth it to upgrade to 939 until pci-e is available

 

[GhandiInstinct]

Ok, I'll say it again.

PCI-E is no faster than AGP. DDR2 is too expensive and doesn't offer performance gains. Not until 667 and 800 DDR2 shows up will we see a benefit to switch.

So, no need for new Mobo for another two years.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

Originally posted by: GhandiInstinct
Ok, I'll say it again.

PCI-E is no faster than AGP. DDR2 is too expensive and doesn't offer performance gains. Not until 667 and 800 DDR2 shows up will we see a benefit to switch.

So, no need for new Mobo for another two years.

well put, but anand's review of all the ddr 2 showed it all overclocked to 667 right? anybody know of some benches of a socket 775 overclocked out the wazoo vs top amd platform overclocked also out of the wazoo?

I won't be upgrading anything for a few years and then getting new everything. i think this is the best way to maintain good performance on the cheap

 

[Lyfer]

Originally posted by: GhandiInstinct
Ok, I'll say it again.

PCI-E is no faster than AGP. DDR2 is too expensive and doesn't offer performance gains. Not until 667 and 800 DDR2 shows up will we see a benefit to switch.

So, no need for new Mobo for another two years.

Indeed the new Intel 915x chipsets offer no advantage at all over the old rock stable I865/I875 solutions. Good thing board companies are rolling out hybrid I865/I875 board that use Socket 775 and AGP/DDR components.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: GhandiInstinct
Ok, I'll say it again.

PCI-E is no faster than AGP. DDR2 is too expensive and doesn't offer performance gains. Not until 667 and 800 DDR2 shows up will we see a benefit to switch.

So, no need for new Mobo for another two years.

SLI. That single principle gives tremendous vitality to any board with PCI-E. Imagine buying a video card, playing it for two years until new games start running slow, then buying the same one (after two year's worth of depreciation) and doubling your gaming performance instantly without changing anything else in your system and rocking on for another two years. That's HUGE upgradability value.

 

[voodoochili]

do you really think they are going to just let us drop these chips right in. their has to be some catch, like a faster bus for compatability or some new chipset we need , its just too scary the thought of being able to upgrade LOL

 

[GhandiInstinct]

Whos going to afford two video cards? And I imagine you'll need a powerful PSU.

 

[Yanagi]

I'm holding off for nFORCE 4. The only reason im waiting for an AMD PCI-E sollution is because of SLI. I might not use it. But I really want to have the option if I would change my mind. You guys will need to think ahead *shakes head*

 

[GhandiInstinct]

You guys will need to think ahead *shakes head*

Ok, I just thought ahead. I don't have extra money to waste on SLI. Especially when I'm never going to use it. EVER.

PCI-E again, is not worth the extra cash. If you need a computer now, then 939 is for and Neo2 PLAT is for you.

End of story.

P.S. If Nforce4 will be DDR2 only, what are you going to do then? No viable DDR2 solutions will be out until next Fall.

It's such a good deal to have 939 out now. Because its the best performer and it saves you money. Plus the boards are very stable, at least from MSI's part.

 

[Viditor]

A couple of things...
1. It's not 939, it's 940 (at least until probably late next year).
2. "do you really think they are going to just let us drop these chips right in. their has to be some catch, like a faster bus for compatability or some new chipset we need" - The answer to that is absolutely YES! This is exactly what they demonstrated with the HP server...
Here's a copy of the AMD presentation slides...
AMD Presentation PDF (2 pages)
3. DDR2 will be available sometime in April-June for AMD (at last report/rumour)

 

[Yanagi]

I didnt mean think ahead as of buying right now. Im buying next year and PCI-E will have been out for a while. I might buy a card now, and a second card for SLI when i need it. maybe one year after. Now THATS thinking ahead. NOT thinking ahead is buying two sli cards at the same time.

 

[GhandiInstinct]

It's going to be several months before we get there, however. And we are talking about very exclusive products - available only to buyers with sufficient money to spend. The message for everyone else is that PCI components will still be available for years to come and the AGP isn't suddenly going to become obsolete.

http://www.tomshardware.com/mo...rd/20040901/index.html

2. "do you really think they are going to just let us drop these chips right in. their has to be some catch, like a faster bus for compatability or some new chipset we need" - The answer to that is absolutely YES! This is exactly what they demonstrated with the HP server...

What is exactly? You believe the dual-core 939s will require a faster chipset?

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: Viditor
3. DDR2 will be available sometime in April-June for AMD (at last report/rumour)

I'm curious as to how this will be accomplished? With the additional pins of DDR2 (240 vs 184 IIRC) AMD would either have to drop back to single-channel DDR2 or use some sort of bridge chip to convert signals if they wanted to maintain dual channel DDR2 compatibility on the integrated memory controller. While I certainly hope they can rollout a integrated dual channel DDR2 controller, I don't see how they can w/o additional CPU pins to correspond to the extra DDR2 pins.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: GhandiInstinct

You guys will need to think ahead *shakes head*

Ok, I just thought ahead. I don't have extra money to waste on SLI. Especially when I'm never going to use it. EVER.

PCI-E again, is not worth the extra cash. If you need a computer now, then 939 is for and Neo2 PLAT is for you.

End of story.

P.S. If Nforce4 will be DDR2 only, what are you going to do then? No viable DDR2 solutions will be out until next Fall.

It's such a good deal to have 939 out now. Because its the best performer and it saves you money. Plus the boards are very stable, at least from MSI's part.

Dude, WTF? No ones gives a sh!t if you can afford it or not.

End of story.

I bet you can't afford paying $700 for a SINGLE X800XT PE either, does that mean people aren't buying it? With the NForce 4, SLI will become a reality for people that CAN afford it. It's also a GREAT solution for people that can't afford it. Later down the line when the next generation of video cards come out, they can add another 6800 GT/Ultra at a lower cost and get a huge bump in performance.

And what the hell does this mean?

P.S. If Nforce4 will be DDR2 only, what are you going to do then? No viable DDR2 solutions will be out until next Fall.

What will I do then? I'll go out and buy DDR2 memory. What's the problem?

 

[Acanthus]

The problem is that DDRII has high latency and performs no better than dual ddr 400.

We need GDDRIII for desktop memory

 

[GhandiInstinct]

Go look up the word Viable; here since you didn't take the time to think about what you just posted I doubt you'll take the time to look it up, thus posting another anger induced spiel.

Viable: Capable of success or continuing effectiveness; practicable

DDR2 is none of that. It's over priced(obviously you're a spoiled child/man w/e, and disregard what the other 98% of consumers consider in their purchasing), It's not faster than DDR1. Did you know this?

Dude, WTF? No ones gives a sh!t if you can afford it or not.

Where did I say anywhere I can't afford it? Here this is what I said, since obviously you have trouble reading and gathering facts; "I don't have extra money to waste on SLI."

That means, it's a waste of money, you could rather save that and buy a good graphics card instead of opting for a cheap one in hopes of a later SLI sollution where you'd need a sufficient PSU and airflow/cooling.

People wan't their computers now, and the best value they can get. Not everyone is as rich as you Jack.

 

[JackBurton]

Go look up the word Viable; here since you didn't take the time to think about what you just posted I doubt you'll take the time to look it up, thus posting another anger induced spiel.

Viable: Capable of success or continuing effectiveness; practicable

DDR2 is none of that. It's over priced(obviously you're a spoiled child/man w/e, and disregard what the other 98% of consumers consider in their purchasing), It's not faster than DDR1. Did you know this?

Please refer to your own definition, continuing effectiveness. DDR2 does just that. It may only perform as good as DDR1, but it's not slower. Yes, it comes at a slightly higher price now, but when Intel's DDR2 boards become more mainstream and by the time NForce 4 is released, that price should come way down. So if DDR1 and DDR2 are close in price, and perform similarly, does it not then become a viable option? Let's do some thinking shall we.

Where did I say anywhere I can't afford it? Here this is what I said, since obviously you have trouble reading and gathering facts; "I don't have extra money to waste on SLI."

That means, it's a waste of money, you could rather save that and buy a good graphics card instead of opting for a cheap one in hopes of a later SLI sollution where you'd need a sufficient PSU and airflow/cooling.

I'm not talking about buying a cheap card now and then buying another cheap card in the future. I'm talking about buying a 6800 GT/Ultra now, and then later when the next generation of cards come out, you buy another 6800 GT/Ultra at a lower price, since it's a generation behind at the time. This will give you a HUGE boost in performance. And since the Doom3 engine will be used in several games in the future, this solution will definitely maximize performance for future games.

SLI DEFINITELY isn't a waste so I'll have to assume you can't afford it, or your not willing to pay for it.

People wan't their computers now, and the best value they can get. Not everyone is as rich as you Jack.

That's your problem. You think everone wants what YOU want. There are 3 different types of people that buy PCs:

1. Cheap ass buyers that want the absolute cheapest PC, period.
2. Budget minded consumers, that want the best bang for the buck.
3. All out consumer, where performance is the number one concern.

Anandtech members (enthusiasts) are mostly comprised of 2 and 3. Now what I'd like you to do is open your mind, and understand not every person that builds a PC has the same goal. Can you do that? I knew you could.

 

[Viditor]

What is exactly? You believe the dual-core 939s will require a faster chipset?

Sorry I wasn't clear...
They showed that you can just drop a dual core Opteron into a current Opteron mobo with just a bios change and it works fine.

 

[Viditor]

With the additional pins of DDR2 (240 vs 184 IIRC) AMD would either have to drop back to single-channel DDR2 or use some sort of bridge chip to convert signals if they wanted to maintain dual channel DDR2 compatibility on the integrated memory controller

The short answer is "I don't know"...I do know they are planning on it however, as they have flat out said they will have 939 and 940 pin A64s with DDR2 next year. They guessed at around April, but it will be when the speed gains outweigh the latency costs (they mentioned around when 667 is easily available).

I do however have some guesses...
1. DDR2 appears to be backwards compatable to DDR, meaning that a memory controller for DDR2 would also be able to utilize DDR sockets (though obviously not as effeciently)
2. I don't know what each of the current pins do on the A64s, so to me it is quite concievable that the circuitry for the 240 pin DDR2 is already in place in S939 and S940.
3. This would not be the first time AMD planned their design around a future technology. The current single core Hammers have most of the circuitry for dual core already (just sitting there doing nothing). Even Intel did this with Prescott and x86-64...