Thou Shalt Not Steal

[Perknose]

And Thou Shalt Not Lie. Remember Hobby Lobby, the evangelical Christian owned business that won that SC case that allows them to structure health insurance for their secular employees according to their religious bigotry, denying them coverage for contraception? Yeah, separation of church and state, my ass.

Well, the little Gawd-Fearing lovelies got caught with their morals down around their ankles, smuggling 5,500 historical artifacts out of Iraq by labeling them as . . . wait for it . . . tile samples!

Yahweh his own damn self was so displeased he sent a plague of locusts to Hobby Lobby's corporate headquarters. Just kidding! However, prosecutors for the United States government took secular action.

From the NYT article entitled
Hobby Lobby Agrees to Forfeit 5,500 Artifacts Smuggled Out of Iraq:

In 2010, as a deal for the tablets was being struck, an expert on cultural property law who had been hired by Hobby Lobby warned company executives that the artifacts might have been looted from historical sites in Iraq, and that failing to determine their heritage could break the law.

Despite these words of caution, the prosecutors said, Hobby Lobby bought more than 5,500 artifacts — the tablets and clay talismans and so-called cylinder seals — from an unnamed dealer for $1.6 million in December 2010.

[...]

Hobby Lobby’s purchase of the artifacts in December 2010 was fraught with “red flags,” according to the prosecutors. Not only did the company get conflicting information about the origin of the pieces, its representatives never met or spoke with the dealer who supposedly owned them, according to the complaint.

Instead, on the instructions of a second dealer, Hobby Lobby wired payments to seven separate personal bank accounts, the prosecutors said. The first dealer then shipped the items marked as clay or ceramic tiles to three Hobby Lobby sites in Oklahoma. All of the packages had labels falsely identifying their country of origin as Turkey, prosecutors said.

These people are scum bag hypocrites who seem to believe that their personal relationship with their made up Gawd allows them to lie, cheat and steal with impunity, as well as use the levers of political power to force their ignorant religious beliefs on others.

 

[Meghan54]

And you honestly expected anything different?

 

[FIVR]

Both the Islamic State and al-Qaeda gain a large percentage (>10% IIRC) of their funding from stolen antiquities. How is it possible that an American business can go to a war-torn country with decades of historical terrorist ties and go buy antiquities from "unnamed" dealers for millions of dollars? That $1.6M is a non-trivial amount for any Iraqi organization. It is enough to fund a medium scale insurgency in a large province for months.


This company should be fines billions of dollars or shut down entirely. They have likely aided terrorists with millions of dollars and if they can't prove they haven't (by identifying these "unnamed" dealers) they should not be able to do business in the US. Somebody knows who they bought these stolen artifacts from.

 

[Puffnstuff]

And Thou Shalt Not Lie. Remember Hobby Lobby, the evangelical Christian owned business that won that SC case that allows them to structure health insurance for their secular employees according to their religious bigotry, denying them coverage for contraception? Yeah, separation of church and state, my ass.

Well, the little Gawd-Fearing lovelies got caught with their morals down around their ankles, smuggling 5,500 historical artifacts out of Iraq by labeling them as . . . wait for it . . . tile samples!

Yahweh his own damn self was so displeased he sent a plague of locusts to Hobby Lobby's corporate headquarters. Just kidding! However, prosecutors for the United States government took secular action.

From the NYT article entitled
Hobby Lobby Agrees to Forfeit 5,500 Artifacts Smuggled Out of Iraq:



These people are scum bag hypocrites who seem to believe that their personal relationship with their made up Gawd allows them to lie, cheat and steal with impunity, as well as use the levers of political power to force their ignorant religious beliefs on others.

The word also states to flee from the appearance of evil and to be doers of the word not hearers, or talkers only so take it for what its worth. We keep seeing this behavior and its no wonder that religion and those who hide behind it don't have any credibility with the public. Each time something like this happens it damages the efforts of upstanding Christians everywhere.

 

[HomerJS]

Their contraception case needs to be reopened and reversed. Obviously the claim of religious exemption was complete bullshit

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'm torn on this, Hobby Lobby is the Ass Clown of corporations however they walk the walk and talk the talk kind of like Chick-fil-A does. Just not as well.
They were attempting to preserve artifacts that were going to get stolen or damaged, they thought they were using the right channels to obtain them (however I do not know how much vetting they put into this), they have apologized for being wrong.

I'm just not sure.

 

[Pick2]

... allows them to lie, cheat and steal with impunity

I think this falls under the " Rape , Pillage and Plunder" clause.

 

[zinfamous]

Both the Islamic State and al-Qaeda gain a large percentage (>10% IIRC) of their funding from stolen antiquities. How is it possible that an American business can go to a war-torn country with decades of historical terrorist ties and go buy antiquities from "unnamed" dealers for millions of dollars? That $1.6M is a non-trivial amount for any Iraqi organization. It is enough to fund a medium scale insurgency in a large province for months.


This company should be fines billions of dollars or shut down entirely. They have likely aided terrorists with millions of dollars and if they can't prove they haven't (by identifying these "unnamed" dealers) they should not be able to do business in the US. Somebody knows who they bought these stolen artifacts from.

Heh, good point. Hobby Lobby has very likely funded the killing of Christians through ISIS and Al Qaeda. awesome. but hey, as long as they have saved the cells!

 

[GagHalfrunt]

These people are scum bag hypocrites who seem to believe that their personal relationship with their made up Gawd allows them to lie, cheat and steal with impunity, as well as use the levers of political power to force their ignorant religious beliefs on others.

So in other words, textbook Christians.

 

[Younigue]

My rule of thumb has always been, the loudest voices (verbally or by actions) are the voices I distrust the most. They are so rarely capable of standing up to any amount of scrutiny.

 

[Moonbeam]

The more certain you are of the righteousness of your aim the more likely you are to justify any means to obtain it. This is why only a Hobbit can carry the one ring. Have you seen one lately?

 

[Pick2]

They Should have the Secret Service show up and arrest the whole lot of them for supporting terrorism. Domestic AND Foreign terrorism.
Do our SS agents wear Jack Boots ?

 

[sdifox]

Wait, just forfeiture and no jail?

 

[Moonbeam]

The more certain you are of the righteousness of your aim the more likely you are to justify any means to obtain it. This is why only a Hobbit can carry the one ring. Have you seen one lately?

And 5 minutes later I see this in an opinion piece:

"Second, take note of Trump’s speech in Warsaw’s old town square, the epicenter of the 1944 Polish uprising against the Nazis. “The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive,” the president proclaimed, using his typically draconian language. “Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost?"

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinio...s-ignorance-of-basic-u-s-values-20170706.html

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Wait, just forfeiture and no jail?

Because businesses are people too. Right up until they break the law. Ironic given the company involved huh?

 

[Stokely]

Well, just when I thought I could dislike Hobby Lobby any more. I have one right near my house, but if the family needs craft stuff we drive to Michaels. I'm shocked--shocked!--to discover an ultra-religious organization doesn't live by the words they hold everyone else to!

 

[Double Trouble]

And Thou Shalt Not Lie. Remember Hobby Lobby, the evangelical Christian owned business that won that SC case that allows them to structure health insurance for their secular employees according to their religious bigotry, denying them coverage for contraception? Yeah, separation of church and state, my ass.

No need to re-litigate that case, it was already decided (in their favor), they were fully within their rights to not be forced to pay for contraceptives for others. If someone doesn't like that policy, then they don't need to work there. Apparently forcing others to accept your view of what they should pay for is fine, but them not wanting to be forced to pay for contraceptives for people because of their religion is bigoted. That's illogical and hypocritical.

These people are scum bag hypocrites who seem to believe that their personal relationship with their made up Gawd allows them to lie, cheat and steal with impunity, as well as use the levers of political power to force their ignorant religious beliefs on others.

Apparently fighting for their rights (which were affirmed in court) not to have to be forced to pay for contraception for someone else is "forcing their ignorant beliefs on others". I'm sorry, but I might point out to you that your disdain for them shows far more bigotry on your part than theirs. Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Regardless, it has nothing to do with trying to smuggle artifacts out Iraq. Apparently they crossed the line on that and will be facing the consequences for it.

 

[Roflmouth]

And Thou Shalt Not Lie. Remember Hobby Lobby, the evangelical Christian owned business that won that SC case that allows them to structure health insurance for their secular employees according to their religious bigotry, denying them coverage for contraception? Yeah, separation of church and state, my ass..

Tell us what other Biblical teachings other people are required to follow, Bible-hater.

 

[Roflmouth]

The word also states to flee from the appearance of evil and to be doers of the word not hearers, or talkers only so take it for what its worth. We keep seeing this behavior and its no wonder that religion and those who hide behind it don't have any credibility with the public. Each time something like this happens it damages the efforts of upstanding Christians everywhere.

I'm sure upstanding Christians everywhere appreciate your looking out for them.

 

[brycejones]

I'm torn on this, Hobby Lobby is the Ass Clown of corporations however they walk the walk and talk the talk kind of like Chick-fil-A does. Just not as well.
They were attempting to preserve artifacts that were going to get stolen or damaged, they thought they were using the right channels to obtain them (however I do not know how much vetting they put into this), they have apologized for being wrong.

I'm just not sure.

The artifacts were already stolen. Their participation in the market at all helped to create incentives for artifacts to be looted and smuggled out of the country. Their hands are not clean at all.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm sure upstanding Christians everywhere appreciate your looking out for them.

The Christians murdered by ISIS and funded by Hobby Lobby money probably weren't all that appreciative, though.

 

[Younigue]

Tell us what other Biblical teachings other people are required to follow, Bible-hater.

I love God but that Bible is hideous! Bible hater isn't the insult you think it is weirdo.

 

[Roflmouth]

So in other words, textbook Christians.

Meanwhile, here are some textbook Muslims:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/03/149-dead-so-far-in-ramadan-attacks/

 

[brycejones]

The Christians murdered by ISIS and funded by Hobby Lobby money probably weren't all that appreciative, though.

I'm guessing Roflmouth is spouting retarded crap again?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I'm torn on this, Hobby Lobby is the Ass Clown of corporations however they walk the walk and talk the talk kind of like Chick-fil-A does. Just not as well.
They were attempting to preserve artifacts that were going to get stolen or damaged, they thought they were using the right channels to obtain them (however I do not know how much vetting they put into this), they have apologized for being wrong.

I'm just not sure.

They were warned by experts to be very careful on determining origin, verifying documents etc... They received the shipments labelled as "ceramics" and "tiles". They didn't seem to be overly concerned with ensuring these items were legitimately obtained.

The other side of this is the fact that HL potentially contributed to the funding of groups like ISIL who have been marketing stolen artifacts for years.