Thoughts on Geforce FX line.

[HueJazz89]

I'm just wondering what the people her think of the Geforce FX line compared to ATI's Radeon 9800, 9600, 9200.
I like the Geforce FX 5200 Ultra because it supports direct X 9 for the right price. Also the fact that it beat the MX line brings the MX to an end.
Geforce FX 5600 Ultra could have made nVidia the most money but it couldn't beat the Geforce 4 Ti4200 and ATI's Radeon 9500 Pro owned it.
Only if nVidia thought alitte more about the FX 5600 and how much money it could have brought them, then i guess they would have reworked it alitte.
The Geforce FX 5800 Ultra is the loudest card I've ever seen. I downloaded the video from the Anandtech review and it was very loud in games compared to the Radeon 9700 Pro. Again Nvidia's high end card isn't gonna sell good either.
Nvidia has failed to deliver something good to the high end and performance mainstream but there budget card should do good comparing to ATI's Radeon 9200 that doesn't support direct X 9 and is the same as the 9000 just with AGP 8X.

What do u guys think Nvidia is gonna do and what u think the NV35 is gonna be like???

 

[dguy6789]

all I know is, that it is much faster then the 5800 ultra, should be a much bigger jump then the 9700 pro to the 9800 pro. If all goes according to plans, it will be much faster then all of the other cards. But we will just have to wait and see.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

The nVidia hype machine made so many empty promises with the FX line, that I am not going to believe anything from nVidia until I see benchmarks... lotsa benchmarks.

ATi has really delivered this time.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Well I think the 5600 Ultra still has a chance, and it all depends on what ATI did with the 9600 Pro. Sure the 9500 Pro is the hands down king of the mid range budget boards, but the 9500 Pro is a temporary solution and will be phased out fairly quickly once the 9600 Pro is here. In reality it is very likely the 9600 Pro could be a flop and the 5600 Ultra may end up besting it, although something is telling me that most likely will not happen.

My thoughts on the 5200 are mixed. Sure it is a good thing that nVidia brought DX9 to all areas of the market, but they also pulled an "MX" with the 5200, at least imo. Sure the 5200 will support DX9, but will it even be able to run any DX9 games once they come? The 5200 seriously lacks punch, and to claim DX9 support is pretty empty when it chugs along with DX8 stuff below average (Ti4200).

It wont really matter that the 9200 doesn't support DX9, what really will matter is how it performs compared to the 5200 in DX8 games and under, as I believe neither will be a practical choice for running DX9 games.

The NV35 may make or break nVidia, the only problem I see is that they may have to push it out soon because the R400 doesn't seem too far off, ATI seems to have a lot of control over the ball in this period of the game...

 

[FearoftheNight]

5600 Ultra only has a glimmer of hope if nvidia gives it a humongous overclockablility along w/ performance boosts and superior drivers. IMO NV35 has alot of potential due to the fact that 5800 ultra was a totally new design...alot of potential and power but inefficient like the super high clockspeed was bottlenecked by the 128 bit memory interface...so if they fix problems could be super fast....some even rumor 2x GF FX? ^^

 

[Soulkeeper]

nvidia drivers are still better
gotta love linux support

if you use the card in linux then the FX line is a perfect upgrade to yur GF2 or GF3
or if you just want near perfect drivers

I think there is a good competition going on here

i actually like the FX coolers
greats design and if set up right shouldn't be any louder than any other cooling solutions

***************Opinion above ***********************

 

[nRollo]

"greats design and if set up right shouldn't be any louder than any other cooling solutions"
My buddy bought a heavy duty Antec cpu hsf this weekend, 42db. The Gainward FX Ultra, 40db. Reference FX Ultra, 52db. This noise thing is blown way out of proportion.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
all I know is, that it is much faster then the 5800 ultra, should be a much bigger jump then the 9700 pro to the 9800 pro. If all goes according to plans, it will be much faster then all of the other cards. But we will just have to wait and see.

Ahem, would you just take a look at these benchmarks please. GFFX 5800 Ultra VS 9800pro They are from Toms Hardware guide. Be objective. Non biased if you can. The 9800 pro and the GFFX 5800 ultra are on each others heals. Just look through the entire benchmark and you will see them neck and neck most of the time. Other times the 9800 pro will pull ahead greatly, and other times the GFFX 5800 ultra does the same thing.

Dont you dare say a word about the noise the GFFX 5800 ultra makes. that is not the issue. It is strictly performance. Oh and by the way, the GFFX 5800 ultra is outperforming the 9800 pro in Anistropic Filtering according to these benchies.. Not AA though. Yet.

Tell me what you think then after you see it.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Noise is a problem, many potential customers will greatly care whether or not their cards are insanely loud. Believe or not, but most computer users aren't hardware enthusiasts who are willing to have several "jet engines" cooling their systems just to get every last drop of performance out of their systems. In most cases systems, even the high end ones, are expected to be somewhat quiet, which pretty much takes the 5800 Ultra out of the picture. If you give the 9800 Pro an equal cooling solution and I'd put money down that the 5800 Ultra wouldn't stand a chance in a large majority of most any bench. 9700 Pro users already milk 450MHz or so out of the core from more agressive cooling solutions, and with the R350 being a matured and refined R300 meant to run at higher clock speeds, giving the 9800 Pro cooling equal to what the 5800 Ultra is packing would be performance death to nVidia. There is a reason ATI didn't resort to such measures to get performance like they. 1st off they didn't need to, and second they know users don't want it.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: dguy6789
all I know is, that it is much faster then the 5800 ultra, should be a much bigger jump then the 9700 pro to the 9800 pro. If all goes according to plans, it will be much faster then all of the other cards. But we will just have to wait and see.

Ahem, would you just take a look at these benchmarks please. GFFX 5800 Ultra VS 9800pro They are from Toms Hardware guide. Be objective. Non biased if you can. The 9800 pro and the GFFX 5800 ultra are on each others heals. Just look through the entire benchmark and you will see them neck and neck most of the time. Other times the 9800 pro will pull ahead greatly, and other times the GFFX 5800 ultra does the same thing.

Dont you dare say a word about the noise the GFFX 5800 ultra makes. that is not the issue. It is strictly performance. Oh and by the way, the GFFX 5800 ultra is outperforming the 9800 pro in Anistropic Filtering according to these benchies.. Not AA though. Yet.

Tell me what you think then after you see it.

I was talking about the NV35!

 

[nRollo]

"1st off they didn't need to, and second they know users don't want it."
You don't know this. If they're available at all, FX Ultras for sure haven't been around long enough for you to say "users don't want it".
Bah. You are just speculating because it suits your argument.

 

[Shamrock]

a small press release to nvnews.net

Let's look back at GDC 2003. Just to clear things up, Jen-Hsun Huang did state during the press conference that the new demo (with four Dawns) was running on the next generation enthusiast GPU that they will tell us about "very shortly". You can see it here.

goto www.nvnews.net topic entitled "ATi Get Ready!"


4 dawn demos running?

this is for NV35

 

[HueJazz89]

To me after the launch of the Radeon 9700 Pro ATI has decided to become serious.
When the 9700 Pro came out they decided to release drivers faster and solve all the bugs.
The 9500 Pro was a rushed card but is the best bang for the bucks that made ATI successful there.
While nVidia has delayed there Geforce FX 5800 Ultra, ATI was planning the R350 which made me think they rushed too because there want to keep the crown.
I was suprised that the R350 was just a R300 with just some little changes. But the R350 does still does better then the R300.
But the Geforce FX 5600 and 5200 came earlier then ATI's 9600 and 9200.
Like in that post before that website said that the Radeon 9800 Pro is supposed to be competing with the new NV35.
Numbers work out right???
R300 = NV30 (see 3's)
R350 = NV35 (see 3 and 5)

In my opinion ATI should have spent alittle more time with the R350 core. We as consumers want to see a jawbreaking product but not all the time.
If the R350 was thought out more then the R300 and R350 would have had a big gap and thats where the RV350 comes in filling in the gap.

I am proud of ATI's R300 which was a HUGE difference from the R200 but the R350 didn't have this excitment as I did with the R9700.
Now I have to say that the R9800 is supposed to be competing with the NV35.
If nVidia has stopped smoking there crack and there act together, the R9800 could be doomed.
nVidia wants there crown, our trust, our reliability, and most important their customers back again.

Come on ATI I'm hoping that the R400 will be a super video card.
This time think and don't rush.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: dguy6789

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: dguy6789
all I know is, that it is much faster then the 5800 ultra, should be a much bigger jump then the 9700 pro to the 9800 pro. If all goes according to plans, it will be much faster then all of the other cards. But we will just have to wait and see.

I was talking about the NV35!

Yes you were. sorry I misread. Still, check out the benchies. Very close..

Keys

 

[nRollo]

"To me after the launch of the Radeon 9700 Pro ATI has decided to become serious."
LOL- yeah, they weren't "serious" about their livelihood for all those years before, especially all the pre-GeForce years they had the largest marketshare of anyone.

"When the 9700 Pro came out they decided to release drivers faster and solve all the bugs"
LOL again, yep, all the bugs have been solved, nothing to see here, ignore those lunatic ramblings on Rage3d tech support.....

"We as consumers want to see a jawbreaking product but not all the time."
Yeah, that would be terrible if they released chips that were a lot better all the time...

"I am proud of ATI's R300 which was a HUGE difference from the R200"
You are "proud" of the R300? Why is that? Did you design it? Of course the FX is just as big of a leap forward over the 4600, but we're not proud of that.

"If nVidia has stopped smoking there crack and there act together"
Er, yeah. they're smoking crack, and having the largest video market share, the largest console contract, the best AMD motherboard chipset, and the highest profitability. Of course, none of this compares to having a card that appeals to about 2% of the market and is sometimes faster than your competitor.

"nVidia wants there crown, our trust, our reliability, and most important their customers back again"
Yeah, they don't have any customers anymore. (even though they actually gained market share on ATI last quarter w/o a competing product for the 9700)

"Come on ATI I'm hoping that the R400 will be a super video card.
This time think and don't rush."
How did you come up with this?! You're absolutely right! If they "think" but don't "rush" their next card will be "super"!
From your lips to their ears....

 

[Rankor]

If you want the top of the heap, wait for the 9800 Pro. If the not available, 9700 Pro.

If (hell-bent on) nVidia, I would wait and see for their supposedly next refresh of the FX line w/c is "supposedly" faster than what's currently available or will be available (in terms of nVidia GFFX parts) in the coming weeks.

Noise is a problem

It is most definitely an issue. I would be annoyed by it when running 3d apps. My computer's loud enough as it is.

I saw Leadtek's offering of their FX' cooler. That could be the ticket plus it looks cool.

 

[davidos]

When is NV35 supposed to come out?

I have an Nforce2 mobo and I like that nVidia's drivers are solid, etc. Never had a crash in games.... I'm just afraid to switch to ATI at this point even if they do have the fastest card for games that aren't even out yet....

 

[Keysplayr]

Has anybody heard that the R400 is being pushed back to 2004?
I cant remember where I originally saw this. It was either THG or AT or possibly HardOCP

 

[CelticDemolition]

Ahem, would you just take a look at these benchmarks please. GFFX 5800 Ultra VS 9800pro They are from Toms Hardware guide. Be objective. Non biased if you can. The 9800 pro and the GFFX 5800 ultra are on each others heals. Just look through the entire benchmark and you will see them neck and neck most of the time. Other times the 9800 pro will pull ahead greatly, and other times the GFFX 5800 ultra does the same thing.

well, what about these benchmarks? the 5800 ultra is only one part of the fx line, and a very tiny, hard-to-find part at that. and the rest of the line doesnt look very promising at all, if you ask me, esp if more ppl find out what hardocp found.

 

[blahblah]

What's so attactive about the 5200 Ultra? It's suppose to retail for $150 and it's not even on par with Ti4200 most of times.

Why would anyone pay $150 for this when you can get the Ti4200 for $80? Especially when you can get the Ti4200 and enjoy your games right now.

If only NVidia would cut down othe PR BS and focused on actually engineering, then we'd all have something to talk about.

I for one hope this come up with something good for NV35. (Don't think the public is stupid enough to accept two failures in a row, though there are people failing for their PR stuff again)

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: CelticDemolition

Ahem, would you just take a look at these benchmarks please. GFFX 5800 Ultra VS 9800pro They are from Toms Hardware guide. Be objective. Non biased if you can. The 9800 pro and the GFFX 5800 ultra are on each others heals. Just look through the entire benchmark and you will see them neck and neck most of the time. Other times the 9800 pro will pull ahead greatly, and other times the GFFX 5800 ultra does the same thing.

well, what about these benchmarks? the 5800 ultra is only one part of the fx line, and a very tiny, hard-to-find part at that. and the rest of the line doesnt look very promising at all, if you ask me, esp if more ppl find out what hardocp found.

Yes I know, the 5200 and 5600's get whupped by the 9500 pro pretty badly. Even the Ti4200 bests it in most cases.
I was just referring to the top dog from each company. There is no question in my mind that the most bang for your buck is the 9500 pro. But. The Radeon 9800 pro and the GFFX 5800 Ultra are evenly priced for the high end no? 399.00 each.. If I had 400 bucks to spend on one of these, I don't think I could decide very easily. What about you?

Keys

 

[CelticDemolition]

well, the thread is "thoughts on the geforce fx line"....

how easy is it to find an fx 5800 ultra? i thought nvidia was not going to ever mass produce them. seems that, as 9800 pro will be much more prevalent, higher supply should dictate a lower price. and as i'm sure you know, the cards arent gonna be $399. since the 9800 pro is a .15 part, ati can produce for much cheaper than nvidia can crank out their 5800 ultra. so which will be cheaper? i dunno if i'm right or not, but that makes sense to me...

personally, i feel compelled to steer way clear of the fx line, what with the lackluster performance, "cinematic era" hype, and lower image quality. so if i had $400, i would get me an ati card.

however, with tsmc's .13 troubles all but solved, nv35 should be much better than nv30. unfortunately for nvidia, ati doesnt have to worry about .13 troubles cuz nvidia went through them. so i'm pretty excited for the next generation of hardware. sounds like its gonna be quite a race.

 

[nRollo]

" what with the lackluster performance, "
"Lackluster" is the word alright- it's only as good as anything currently available! WTF are they thinking, that we'll buy a card just because it's the fastest one available?!

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I'll buy a 5800 Ultra not because its fastest but because its hands down the loudest!

 

[nemesismk2]

What will save the Geforce FX line will be the FX5200 and FX5200 Ultra, they make an excellent upgrade for people using video cards like the Geforce2 MX and IMO will sell extremely well. Everyone thought the GF4 MX440 would flop but it's been one of Nvidia's top sellers and the same will be true for the FX5200 range. As for the FX5600, the future for that isn't so bright unless Nvidia make some changes to the retail version.