Thoughts on HDR & OLED

[Kaido]

Wow. You still have a DLP. Walk like a dinosaur! Great picture.

I just replaced the bulb this week, back to looking awesome! $48 & I was back in business, haha. Guess there's no upgrades in my future

 

[SlitheryDee]

I saw an oled in a best buy near me a few months back and ever since then I've been committed to getting a 65" model when they got around the $3K mark. I'm not sure what people mean about the oleds being at a disadvantage in a store setting though. Sure the other TVs in the best buy were brighter, but that one just popped in a way that they couldn't match. Everything looked sharper and sort of truer (I lack the av jargon to describe this) than the other displays to my eyes. Something to do with the deep blacks and color quality made it look even better than my calibrated panasonic plasma. There was no comparison at all for me.

I'm looking very hard at a 2015 model LG that has been going down in price over the last few months. It doesn't explicitly say it supports HDR on the amazon page, but after some research I learned that it does indeed support HDR.

Now that it's come down to $3364.00 on amazon
I'm sorely tempted to pull the trigger.

 

[Eug]

It should be noted that it seems some of the benefit of HDR comes from the mastering of the content, not inherently the HDR itself. Why do I say that?

Because if you take a 4K HDR UHD Blu-ray disc and play on it on an SDR 1080p TV using the Panasonic UHD Blu-ray player, you often get more colour contrast and detail than you get with the native 1080p Blu-ray disc, at least according to some third party comparisons. (The Panasonic does HDR to SDR conversion for 1080p output, and reportedly does a much better job in some cases than the Samsung.)

What this suggests to me is that the people doing the mastering are for whatever reason not always mastering the 1080p discs to their full potential. Either that or the mastering software puts some restrictions on output when mastering for 1080p non-HDR, or something to that effect, for whatever technical reason.

 

[A5]

That may be the effects of HEVC and the Rec.2020 color space, along with 10-bit color depth?

Even if the display doesn't actually support it, the master may be storing the data better.

 

[desura]

Hmm, the Sony z series seems to be like the first good lcd I've heard of.

Is there like an older cheaper comparable model? Like a predecessor, that is cheaper?

 

[fastman]

I have personally observed OLED TV's from LG and find them vastly superior to the current LCD's and although I have a last gen plasma from Samsung, I find it a better picture also.
I will be moving the that format in the future, likely when content becomes widespread.

 

[TheUnk]

That smoothing effect that bothers you, and many others, can almost always be turned off entirely. I know for certain it can on the LG OLEDs.

My LG OLED blows me away every time I see it, especially dark scenes. The first time the picture went black, I thought the TV turned off. I can't imagine ever going back to LCD after this.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

That smoothing effect that bothers you, and many others, can almost always be turned off entirely. I know for certain it can on the LG OLEDs.

My LG OLED blows me away every time I see it, especially dark scenes. The first time the picture went black, I thought the TV turned off. I can't imagine ever going back to LCD after this.

I remember folks visiting my home years ago and witnessing the CRT projector I had going in a controlled environment. The first time the image faded to black they thought something went wrong.

It is nice when black reproduction means just not generating light instead of trying to block light that is always on.

 

[desura]

It definitely has gotten to that I prefer watching movies on my amoled tablet rather than on my plasma television.

 

[sxr7171]

There is no way the Sony performed better than the OLEDs in a dark room. Not a shot in hell. As good old Pioneer once said, black is the canvas. There is no canvas to be had with a back light, no matter how many zones your FALD LED has.

Did you see these in a proper environment? Contrary to LED TVs, OLEDs do not put out a lot of light, if you saw these in a normally lit showroom the OLED had a huge disadvantage.

With regards to HDR, I am excited for it as colour accuracy and gamut are at the very top of my requirements, but it's in the same camp as 4K right now until we actually get a good amount of source material. 4K has been around for a few years now and 4K sources are still extremely scarce. I don't have hopes of seeing HDR material any time soon.

Before I got my OLED I saw it in the showroom it was terrible. I trusted the technology so I got it anyway. At home it's unbelievable and it's the cheapest OLED out there. The LG 55" 1080p one. I downgraded in size too and now I just closer to it about 8' and just love it. Better than my Panny plasma which btw is bigger.

It looks unreal. It needed some calibration to get it up to its capabilities but man after that it blows away everything I've seen. Granted I haven't taken home any LCD TV ever to compare only plasma.

 

[sxr7171]

That smoothing effect that bothers you, and many others, can almost always be turned off entirely. I know for certain it can on the LG OLEDs.

My LG OLED blows me away every time I see it, especially dark scenes. The first time the picture went black, I thought the TV turned off. I can't imagine ever going back to LCD after this.

I would never.

After seeing it I realized the true meaning of resolution. It's not how many pixels are on the screen. It's about how one pixel can be lit and the next one completely dark. That to me redefines how I look at resolution going forward.

You put up a night shot of Hong Kong on it and no other display could imagine coming close to it. You really get the full feeling of resolution when see the detail coming off of it. You could put 4 even 16 pixels in the space of one pixel and it wouldn't matter because on an LCD they will all be lit up about the same. On an OLED every pixel is truly independent in luminosity. The detail you can notice is incredible.

 

[sxr7171]

Hmm, the Sony z series seems to be like the first good lcd I've heard of.

Is there like an older cheaper comparable model? Like a predecessor, that is cheaper?

From what I heard it's the next gen FULD. Nothing to compare to but OLED and I would never pay anything close to what that costs for this year's "solution" to make LCD look decent. Moar backlights. Not very good until each pixel has its own backlight which doesn't leak. Pretty much impossible with LCD.

Also as for HDR I'm glad they are working on it but I'll wait until they finish working on it. And then after content comes out. You could buy one today and wait for the standard to get settled and implemented and then for content but by that time so many better TVs will be out. It's the reason for me personally I didn't mind getting a 1080p. There's a good 3 years of use and then it can go to a bedroom. At 28lbs it won't be hard to move either.

 

[sxr7171]

I saw multiple units, both in lit & dark environments. The HDR OLED's & HDR Sony 75" were in both. One thing I will say is that I always reserve final judgement until I have my own sources hooked up so I am watching reference material with the proper connections...you never know what settings & sources someone else is running. I am fortunate in that I do a lot of home theater stuff on the side, so I get to play with all kinds of fun new toys :awe: However...I would take the 75" Sony in a heartbeat. I was really, really impressed. tbh I've never seen an LED TV I've loved until this one. I don't like how LED lighting makes the image look, until now!

As far as overall image quality, that's a tough one - the 2015 LG OLED 65" still had the most amazing black levels ever, just really, really incredible black levels - but no HDR. The color representation on the X940D was just awesome. Felt like I was watching a jumbo-sized iMac screen (one the newer models, that is). Also, the Sony looked excellent in the fully-lit demo room as well as the theater demo room. I would pick the Sony in a heartbeat.

I still have yet to see either the 65" or 77" 2016 LG OLED G6 model with HDR, however. I'm sure that's top dog, but my shop hasn't gotten their display units in yet for those. But given that the 77" G6 is $24k, it makes a lot more financial sense to get the $6k Sony (2" smaller), unless you're really after the cream-of-the-crop PQ. But yeah, surprisingly, I wasn't all that blown away by the 2016 HDR OLED screens. Even in the dark. They were good, but the way that Sony processed the picture...I had my nose up against it & it was still good! Haha. Call all around to your local electronics stores & high-end HT stores and see if they have any on display that you can check out.

I was very surprised at what my eyes saw. I'm still running my 60" Mitsubishi DLP RPTV in my living room because I love the filmic picture quality of it & haven't found anything suitable to replace it, short of a 2015 OLED from LG. I've been on the fence about replacing it with a 65" TCL Roku TV for convenience, but man, I don't like LED PQ all that much. Downside is, there's no way I'm spending six grand on a television, so I really shouldn't have exposed myself to it

You obviously have a lot of experience with this stuff. I'm not so lucky. You very well might have found a good LCD but in one year I hope we can get that level of performance at half the price. They would have to roll it out on cheaper sets as LG rolls out more OLEDs.

I would have to say based on my limited experience nothing beats backlit LCD in a lit room. I can admit OLED and plasma viewing in a daylight room can never compete with that backlit look. Having an 5k iMac I am familiar with the look. It's like looking at a well done backlit display sign (not a digital one just a printed one like on a bus stop). Almost like looking a slide but much bigger.

 

[sxr7171]

My requirements are much more modest. I just want a 55" 4K HDR OLED that I can buy for under 2K. I sit close enough to my TV that 4K makes sense at that size. When that happens, my Kuro is coming off the wall. I'll shed a tear, but the day will come.

How close? I sit about 6-8' away from a 1080p 55" OLED and I wouldn't even go back to computer monitor for gaming and video. Text can be difficult but at that distance it's usable and you don't see any screen door or pixels. 55" is pretty small relatively speaking and I think you need to be sitting closer than 6' to need a higher resolution. Also a big factor is that I can run my games on a single Titan X while all the 4K using guys or even 3440x1440p absolutely must have Sli to have decent frame rates. That might change with the new Titan and obviously this only matters if you game on it.

I plan to use it until 3rd or 4th gen OLED comes out and sorts out the motion issues and graphics cards can handle 4K easily. Not to mention some decent amount of 4K content. If you plan on using it as a monitor for text and work (and sit close enough for that) then yeah the 4K is a must.

Edit: I was wrong. The answer is 7.1'.

http://isthisretina.com/

Assuming the retina "standard" is sufficient for you. Which I think is better than most peoples' eyesight. Another way to put that is whether an iPhone becomes unbearable to you if it is closer than 11". Which I can't personally focus at that distance unless I take my glasses off.

Of course that's not a valid comparison at 55" but it gives you an idea of how close you need to be.

 

[Railgun]

That is why my Panasonic quality and image processing plus OLED (for example) would blow everything else away.

You mean like this one?
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/tx65cz952b-201601044222.htm

Wouldn't call it blowing anything away, but I too am waiting anxiously for the right Panny OLED.

 

[Kaido]

You obviously have a lot of experience with this stuff. I'm not so lucky. You very well might have found a good LCD but in one year I hope we can get that level of performance at half the price. They would have to roll it out on cheaper sets as LG rolls out more OLEDs.

I would have to say based on my limited experience nothing beats backlit LCD in a lit room. I can admit OLED and plasma viewing in a daylight room can never compete with that backlit look. Having an 5k iMac I am familiar with the look. It's like looking at a well done backlit display sign (not a digital one just a printed one like on a bus stop). Almost like looking a slide but much bigger.

Oh for sure. 2015 OLED prices are already dropping like crazy. The 55" 1080p OLED is almost down to $999.

Previously, I'd never seen an LED screen I really liked. That 75" Sony X940d with HDR was really spectacular. Of course, I'd still want to run my own tests on it using my own sources, and personally, there's no way I'd ever pay $6k for a TV, but it was a beautiful set!

Right now I'm running a BenQ HT2050 (iirc, $799?) in my bedroom, which gives me an awesome 92" 1080p picture on my wall, and a Mitsubishi WD-60C10 60" DLP in my living room, which I bought back in 2011 (just replaced the bulb, back in business!). Assuming the RPTV holds up for another couple years, I'll just wait for the sets to improve even more & drop even further in price. Black Friday 2018 here I come

 

[merlion]

Oh for sure. 2015 OLED prices are already dropping like crazy. The 55" 1080p OLED is almost down to $999.

Where is it down to this price level? We're talking the LG EG9100, right? Amazon currently has this model for a hair under $1450. If a reputable dealer has it for close to $1K, I'll be all over it.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Where is it down to this price level? We're talking the LG EG9100, right? Amazon currently has this model for a hair under $1450. If a reputable dealer has it for close to $1K, I'll be all over it.

Frys cleared them out for that price recently. I couldn't benefit my Frys was sold out.

 

[Kaido]

Where is it down to this price level? We're talking the LG EG9100, right? Amazon currently has this model for a hair under $1450. If a reputable dealer has it for close to $1K, I'll be all over it.

Fry's is LG-authorized & had the 55EG9100 (curved 1080p OLED) for $996 last month:

http://slickdeals.net/f/8872935-fry...ed-3d-hdtv-996-free-store-pickup-w-email-code

Unfortunately no stores near me

Normally the lowest I've seen so far is $1199 via eBay (usually like a "deal of the day" type of thing) through an authorized online store like Adorama or whoever as the seller.

 

[sxr7171]

Oh for sure. 2015 OLED prices are already dropping like crazy. The 55" 1080p OLED is almost down to $999.

Previously, I'd never seen an LED screen I really liked. That 75" Sony X940d with HDR was really spectacular. Of course, I'd still want to run my own tests on it using my own sources, and personally, there's no way I'd ever pay $6k for a TV, but it was a beautiful set!

Right now I'm running a BenQ HT2050 (iirc, $799?) in my bedroom, which gives me an awesome 92" 1080p picture on my wall, and a Mitsubishi WD-60C10 60" DLP in my living room, which I bought back in 2011 (just replaced the bulb, back in business!). Assuming the RPTV holds up for another couple years, I'll just wait for the sets to improve even more & drop even further in price. Black Friday 2018 here I come

Yeah that's a great strategy. I did get the 1080p 55" LG I paid a bit more than $999, but at that price it's nearing almost a throw away price where you can enjoy the quality early with some omissions and some definite kinks. But it is best to just wait if you're happy with what you have.

 

[sxr7171]

Fry's is LG-authorized & had the 55EG9100 (curved 1080p OLED) for $996 last month:

http://slickdeals.net/f/8872935-fry...ed-3d-hdtv-996-free-store-pickup-w-email-code

Unfortunately no stores near me

Normally the lowest I've seen so far is $1199 via eBay (usually like a "deal of the day" type of thing) through an authorized online store like Adorama or whoever as the seller.

Check also Microcenter if you have one. That's where I got mine.

 

[gus6464]

OLED fanboys...

 

[merlion]

Check also Microcenter if you have one. That's where I got mine.

I'll be near a Microcenter tomorrow, so I'll stop in and see what they've got. I really only need 1080p, but I'm seeing the 9500 and 9600 dropping in price as well, so also an option I suppose.

 

[poofyhairguy]

OLED fanboys...

Eh, a lot of us loved/love plasmas too.

More like "Great Picture Quality Fanboys."

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I wish plasma was still in the game. I wouldn't mind an 80" 4K HDR plasma set.