Thoughts on McCain

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: apoppin

McCain is perfect as President !!

:thumbsup:

for 1958 .. as i said .. he had fresh ideas then

 

[Painman]

Sorry, No.

I respect McCain's service and sacrifice to this nation.

I acknowledge that he seems to love his country very much.

But, the man has been out there demonstrating fundamental misunderstandings about the conflict we currently find ourselves in, which he has also decided to make the centerpiece of his campaign.

He thinks we may be in Iraq for 100 years. No, not in a fighting role, but in a role similar to the one we played in post-WWII Europe and the one we still play now in S. Korea after the war there.

McCain just doesn't understand that the Muslim world is a completely different animal. We will never, ever, reach a point in the occupation of Iraq in which our troops don't get shot at or blown up.

Our military presence in the heart of the Muslim world is seen as a violation, a desecration.

McCain simply does not, or cannot, see this.

I'd personally rather not think there's anything sinister about his POV - I'd rather just see it as OldThink. I see a man still fighting the war of his own time, one that was quite arguably ended in the wrong sort of fashion, but he seems to be hidebound within that frame.

That presumably makes the man honorable, but at the same time, given the incredibly different set of facts and circumstances surrounding the current conflict, incredibly dangerous.

I once again have to bring up the point that the man either (at best) doesn't understand the fundamental differences betwen Shia and Sunni extremists within the context of the current conflict, or (at worst) consciously chooses to gloss them over in order to drum up low-information voter support for continued military presence in the region.

Again, I'd prefer not to think the worst about Sen. McCain, but I just can't give him complete benefit of the doubt.

In the end, it makes little difference. His foreign policy is a recipe for disaster either way. His domestic policy seems to be a mix of "What Bush Said" and "I'll have to ask my advisors".

No Thanks, John.

 

[fskimospy]

To say that McCain condemned Falwell and then somehow went into the lion's den to reach out to his former enemies is an incredibly dishonest way of framing what actually happened. Let's be honest here. In 2000, McCain said Falwell was an 'agent of intolerance'. In 2008, he was asked about it and pretty much said 'I don't think that any more'. In reality this is called "sucking up to the hard right to win the presidential nomination". In addition, he is nowhere close to the maverick that everyone likes to think he is. He voted with the GOP majority close to 90% of the time. OOOooooh! Such daring!

You can like him if you want, but you should at least be honest with yourself about why you do.

 

[Painman]

Well, indeed.

I mean, according to Hagee, God Hates Fags and and Catholics.

According to Parsley, God's Divine and Provident Mission for the USA is to obliterate Islam.

I'm still waiting for a plurality of media bobbleheads to ask McCain to denounce and reject these hateful, wrongful and bigoted viewpoints of his endorsers - much less distance himself from the endorsers.

Meanwhile, the main show at lots of mainstream media outlets remains to be what Obama is willing to do (or ought to be willing to do) in order to stay famous and dandy.

Ya know, just like Amos & Andy.

After all, White America threw Black America a bone some 40-odd years ago. Gee Whiz, why wasn't that good enough? Why are those Negroes still Uppity?

:disgust:

 

[TallPilot]

Like it or not, McCain will be the next president, no way hillary or obama can get ellected

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: TallPilot
America's current foreign and domestic policies stink like Bush's freshly extruded turds, smeared all across the bathroom walls by Dick Cheney, but I'll wave my Chinese manufactured American-flag-on-a-stick as energetically as necessary in order to try and dispel the odor.

Fixed.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Setting aside my problems with Hillary (evil hack) or Obama (arch-Lib). . .

You lost me at that point. Obvious fanboy pandering about McCain to follow and you did not disappoint. Bragging about his blistering attacks on religious conservatives, then pointing out he spoke at Falwell's commencement. You conveniently ignore the fact that his attacks on the religious politicos nutjobs hurt McCain and his Falwell speech was part of him crawling on his knees to apologize to them.

I greatly admire McCain as a man, much as I did the original Bush, but I think he will be a poor President. Some simple reasons:

1) His white-hot temper. We don't need a President who will act in anger.

2) His "principles" are often abandoned in flip-flops. Prime example-his 180 degree reveral on the GWB tax cuts for the rich-set up as temporary, now their expiration are being decried as tax "increases"-voodoo economics all over again.

3) Much like the original Bush, his reign would be pretty much a continuation of his predecessor's policies. But unlike that Bush, McCain would be following an abject failure, a failure in both policy and execution.

The best that could be said about electing McCain now is that he will probably implement GWB's failed policies better than GWB did. Whoop-de-do.

McCain would have been the best choice in 2000, by far, but not today.

 

[HomerJS]

My biggest problem with McCain he is incapable of learning from history.

It's a concensus invading Iraq is the biggest stategic blunder since Vietnam. An argument can be made going to war based on what we knew before it started. However McCain is on the record stating knowing what we know now he would do it all over again.

This is enough of a reason not to elect him President.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: TallPilot
Like it or not, McCain will be the next president, no way hillary or obama can get ellected

i agree ... they have only one chance and it is fading ..
Obama and Clinton need to "team up" - now - if they want a real chance to defeat the Rep Candidate

Americans do not vote based on "logic" .. and they figure that McCain is "better" than Bush - true 'dat - but a Bad War is a Bad War .. and McCain is going to Mire America further with his lack of comprehension of what a "foreign policy" really is .. i think McCain's idea of "foreign policy" is cashing it out
:roll:

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
To say that McCain condemned Falwell and then somehow went into the lion's den to reach out to his former enemies is an incredibly dishonest way of framing what actually happened. Let's be honest here. In 2000, McCain said Falwell was an 'agent of intolerance'. In 2008, he was asked about it and pretty much said 'I don't think that any more'. In reality this is called "sucking up to the hard right to win the presidential nomination". In addition, he is nowhere close to the maverick that everyone likes to think he is. He voted with the GOP majority close to 90% of the time. OOOooooh! Such daring!

You can like him if you want, but you should at least be honest with yourself about why you do.

He can do that as soon as Obama steps up to the plate and is honest with us about his great reverend.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
McCain doesn't have a chance. It will be either Hitlery or Osama. I hope the one that does get elected supports some kind of internet censorship because I can't watch shit like that anymore.

As a Ron Paul supporter how can you even suggest censorship?? That goes against everything a libertarian stands for.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
McCain doesn't have a chance. It will be either Hitlery or Osama. I hope the one that does get elected supports some kind of internet censorship because I can't watch shit like that anymore.

As a Ron Paul supporter how can you even suggest censorship?? That goes against everything a libertarian stands for.

It was a joke.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Painman

Originally posted by: TallPilot
America's current foreign and domestic policies stink like Bush's freshly extruded turds, smeared all across the bathroom walls by Dick Cheney, but I'll wave my Chinese manufactured American-flag-on-a-stick as energetically as necessary in order to try and dispel the odor.

Fixed.

That would have been more funny if it wasn't so true.

It is sig worthy though. :thumbsup:

 

[manowar821]

So you guys want to vote another terrorist into the white house?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
To say that McCain condemned Falwell and then somehow went into the lion's den to reach out to his former enemies is an incredibly dishonest way of framing what actually happened. Let's be honest here. In 2000, McCain said Falwell was an 'agent of intolerance'. In 2008, he was asked about it and pretty much said 'I don't think that any more'. In reality this is called "sucking up to the hard right to win the presidential nomination". In addition, he is nowhere close to the maverick that everyone likes to think he is. He voted with the GOP majority close to 90% of the time. OOOooooh! Such daring!

You can like him if you want, but you should at least be honest with yourself about why you do.

Daring enough to make him a red-headed stepchild to many on the hard right.

I am honest with myself... McCain panders less than most (including Hillary or Obama IMO). That's it.

You should be honest and admit that McCain has never had a strong relationship with the religoes on the Right and certainly isn't their ideal candidate. Of course he still wants all the votes he can get, but everyone knows he has a general distaste for the fundamentals.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: eskimospy
To say that McCain condemned Falwell and then somehow went into the lion's den to reach out to his former enemies is an incredibly dishonest way of framing what actually happened. Let's be honest here. In 2000, McCain said Falwell was an 'agent of intolerance'. In 2008, he was asked about it and pretty much said 'I don't think that any more'. In reality this is called "sucking up to the hard right to win the presidential nomination". In addition, he is nowhere close to the maverick that everyone likes to think he is. He voted with the GOP majority close to 90% of the time. OOOooooh! Such daring!

You can like him if you want, but you should at least be honest with yourself about why you do.

Daring enough to make him a red-headed stepchild to many on the hard right.

I am honest with myself... McCain panders less than most (including Hillary or Obama IMO). That's it.

You should be honest and admit that McCain has never had a strong relationship with the religoes on the Right and certainly isn't their ideal candidate. Of course he still wants all the votes he can get, but everyone knows he has a general distaste for the fundamentals.

Daring:roll:. McCain, the man of honor and integrity who will do whatever it takes to win. Isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: manowar821
So you guys want to vote another terrorist into the white house?

Terrorism is an effective means of achieving political, societal and economic goals. There are several good books regarding the political economy of terrorism that are worth reading. Of course, some people consider the use of terror to achieve goals distasteful. But I'm not in the position to make that kind of moral judgement when results are far more important.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: eskimospy
To say that McCain condemned Falwell and then somehow went into the lion's den to reach out to his former enemies is an incredibly dishonest way of framing what actually happened. Let's be honest here. In 2000, McCain said Falwell was an 'agent of intolerance'. In 2008, he was asked about it and pretty much said 'I don't think that any more'. In reality this is called "sucking up to the hard right to win the presidential nomination". In addition, he is nowhere close to the maverick that everyone likes to think he is. He voted with the GOP majority close to 90% of the time. OOOooooh! Such daring!

You can like him if you want, but you should at least be honest with yourself about why you do.

Daring enough to make him a red-headed stepchild to many on the hard right.

I am honest with myself... McCain panders less than most (including Hillary or Obama IMO). That's it.

You should be honest and admit that McCain has never had a strong relationship with the religoes on the Right and certainly isn't their ideal candidate. Of course he still wants all the votes he can get, but everyone knows he has a general distaste for the fundamentals.

Still he will be glad to have them instrumental in electing him and he will no doubt "decry it" but really look the other way when 'his' fundamentalists say Obama is the Anti-Christ and whip up racial tensions like never before.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: manowar821
So you guys want to vote another terrorist into the white house?

Terrorism is an effective means of achieving political, societal and economic goals. There are several good books regarding the political economy of terrorism that are worth reading. Of course, some people consider the use of terror to achieve goals distasteful. But I'm not in the position to make that kind of moral judgement when results are far more important.

So you have no problem with terrorism so long as it's your side doing it?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: eskimospy
To say that McCain condemned Falwell and then somehow went into the lion's den to reach out to his former enemies is an incredibly dishonest way of framing what actually happened. Let's be honest here. In 2000, McCain said Falwell was an 'agent of intolerance'. In 2008, he was asked about it and pretty much said 'I don't think that any more'. In reality this is called "sucking up to the hard right to win the presidential nomination". In addition, he is nowhere close to the maverick that everyone likes to think he is. He voted with the GOP majority close to 90% of the time. OOOooooh! Such daring!

You can like him if you want, but you should at least be honest with yourself about why you do.

Daring enough to make him a red-headed stepchild to many on the hard right.

I am honest with myself... McCain panders less than most (including Hillary or Obama IMO). That's it.

You should be honest and admit that McCain has never had a strong relationship with the religoes on the Right and certainly isn't their ideal candidate. Of course he still wants all the votes he can get, but everyone knows he has a general distaste for the fundamentals.

Daring:roll:. McCain, the man of honor and integrity who will do whatever it takes to win. Isn't that an oxymoron?

I don't think he'd do whatever it takes to win, and have said as much. In fact, I believe he has an unusual way of disagreeing while still working with those he disagrees with.

I'll scratch your confusion up to my lack of effective communication (as opposed to your illiteracy), but I gotta say that your constant eye-rolling like a twelve year old girl doesn't convey the message, to me at least, that I think you're intending.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: manowar821
So you guys want to vote another terrorist into the white house?

Terrorism is an effective means of achieving political, societal and economic goals. There are several good books regarding the political economy of terrorism that are worth reading. Of course, some people consider the use of terror to achieve goals distasteful. But I'm not in the position to make that kind of moral judgement when results are far more important.

So you have no problem with terrorism so long as it's your side doing it?

I have no problem with terrorism no matter who's doing it. It's an effective tactic that costs very little to employ, but inflicts dramatic costs on the enemy. All's fair in love and war. I don't hold it against them, we're in a war.

 

[TallPilot]

Originally posted by: manowar821
So you guys want to vote another terrorist into the white house?

No!! I would never vote for hillary

 

[ericlp]

I hate the guy... and won't be voting for him....

 

[kage69]

My thoughts on McCain...



Even though I consider him on a level far above that of the standard chickenhawks (Cheney, Bush, etc) he largely made himself unelectable since getting screwed in the 2000 Republican primary. He's still better than Huckabee, and certainly Romney and that sob Giuliani - but he's still, IMO, the wrong pick given all that he's done and said these last seven years. Bending over to accept the abuse from your compatriots doesn't strike me as leader like, and like it or not his age and possible past treatment at the hands of communists is catching up to him. I'd love to chalk it all up to a few "senior moments," but my conscious tells me that would be wishful thinking.

I don't want McCain as president as I find it hard to respect his political career, and am pretty sure a McCain victory would basically spell a continuation of many disastrous Cheney policies.
We need these criminal neoconservatives on trial, not being trickled over to another admin.

McCain had his chance, and it was in 2000. We need something else.

 

[Vic]

My thoughts on McCain... he's a puppet. He had some political dignity and independence in the past, but he's sold that all off this cycle to be POTUS.