Thoughts on modern cases and size

[WilliamM2]

I still use an Antec SX-800 I bought in 2001. I've grown quite attached to it. I love the fact that it's huge, and easy to work on.

I have an extra bedroom that I use only for the computer, it's not like a small case would give me more living space.

 

[George_o/c]

I also prefer ATX cases, just because they are more spacious, hence easier to work with, especially if you are swapping parts all the time (for example RAMs or motherboards for reviews). Doesn't have to be a full tower, roomy midi towers like the 693 or the HAF-XM are perfect as well.

Regarding the motherboards, for some reason I've always preferred the ATX ones. Mini-ITX doesn't suit me at all, I've tried the H55N-USB3 three years ago and it felt really weird, had problems with cpu cooler clearence and VGAs... However, I could see myself buying a microATX motherboard in the future, since they don't differ that much from the atx size

 

[Zap]

actually zap isnt it more then that...
the boards are also more shallow in the back no?

The actual specification for mATX is the same width as ATX, thus there is just as much room for CPU coolers, VRMs and four RAM slots as ATX.. Motherboard manufacturers can choose to make their boards smaller, of course.

If you want a computer that can fit 3 HDD's an optical or two and a decent sized video card. Why not get one that can support 8 drives, 2 large video cards or more and give yourself some room to grow and know your not knocking your knuckles every time you make the change?

Why not? How about "why?" Some of us are confident that we do not need that "room to grow." Ever.

Go to a big LAN party and take a look at all the computers there. I would wager that probably a good half of them could be ITX with no impact on performance, capacity or functionality based on the actual hardware level (CPU, GPU, drives) actually present. Probably another 40% can be mATX, leaving probably under 10% that has so much hardware that ATX is required.

Even when they make a smaller power supply for a Mini-ITX case it is cheap and underpowered and of a low quality.

450W is sufficient for a single GPU. Regarding quality, these SFX units are quite decent. That is, unless one is OCD about "quality" and are the type to drop $300 on a PSU because ripple is 2% less than any $200 PSU.

When it comes to gaming you just have to accept that a system will just be larger.

Speaking as a fairly hardcore gamer, I am not willing to accept that for myself.

My original post is stating that exact problem - there aren't enough SMALL mATX cases.

ZALMAN ZM-T2 is 6.65" x 16.73" x 13.7", making it reasonably small. But yes, I've mentally designed a number of mATX and ITX cases which I feel are improvements over what is in the market today. Anyone want to fund me?

Hard drives come up to 3 TB nowadays.

4TB for maybe a year now. 5TB has been announced for maybe next year.

3. See phones - one pays 10s of dollars premium for a mm thinner phone. Because it needs to fit a pocket - which could be very space constrained.

Actually, I'd bet those are desirable due to "teh sexy," and have little to do with "fits in space constraints." :awe:

 

[Topweasel]

Why not? How about "why?" Some of us are confident that we do not need that "room to grow." Ever.

Go to a big LAN party and take a look at all the computers there. I would wager that probably a good half of them could be ITX with no impact on performance, capacity or functionality based on the actual hardware level (CPU, GPU, drives) actually present. Probably another 40% can be mATX, leaving probably under 10% that has so much hardware that ATX is required.

Again compared to the options of mATX cases. There is little reason to limit your future expansion to cut 3 pounds of metal and make it a tighter fit. If you are building a full blown desktop you are doing it because you want it to be more option filled and configurable than an ITX setup.

That said LAN party gamers should all convert their setups to ITX. If you are bringing 3 monitors and an eyefinity/NVsurround setup, you are doing it to show off an not for it's portability. Otherwise a 670/7950 single GPU would be enough for even a 30" monitor and therefore no reason to be lugging around 4HDD, two opticals, a 1k PSU, and so on.

All I was getting at was the lack of user support for mATX shown by the lack of retail case options combined with the large amount of OEM systems using mATX. It's the enthusiasts building desktops that have obviously spoken that they would rather have more room and upgradability then making a case 3 pounds lighter and 3 inches shorter then a decent mid tower ATX.

 

[aigomorla]

this thread made me want to change my PC case.

Currently i use a Mountain Mods with Pedistool.

This makes my case one of the largest u can get which is not custom.
My case litterally stands almost 3 foot tall, is 18 inches wide and deep.. its a box.
However that is just 1 PC... A very large a FAT PC...

i am getting tired of having my PC's stacked ontop of each other in some corner..

I want something that can handle multipul PC's... I would LOVE a dual motherboard ITX box...
(George ask your guys at CM! )

The only one ive seen is for a Rack tho.

The other solution is a Rack... which i think i am gonna go...
In 5 yrs i think all my PC's and LC systems will be moved into one of these guys.

I think this is how a lot of us feel when we have more then 1 PC's to ourselves...
We would love something that can handle 2 PC's or even be scalable to handle more without looking ugly like stacking different cases ontop of each other.
(i dont think many of us stack same case PC's in a aesthetic manner either, because the date at which PC was built)

 

[smackababy]

I would love a rack. Especially with a KVM type set up, so I can swap between the multiple PCs without anything but a switch. I would certainly have a work and game PC then.

And the room to watercool! Oh my!

 

[aigomorla]

And the room to watercool! Oh my!

lol.... i was telling my friend my designs i started working on.

If i had a 48U rack installed in my room, i would also most definite use 8U just for the watercooling part.
It would be like a center cooling station feeding each of the PC's with a manifold...

The wonderful thing about racks is... u can get them used for cheap... however... the cases to go into the racks are not so cheap, and also typically require loud fans.
However watercooling them would change all that.

 

[smackababy]

lol.... i was telling my friend my designs i started working on.

If i had a 48U rack installed in my room, i would also most definite use 8U just for the watercooling part.
It would be like a center cooling station feeding each of the PC's with a manifold...

The wonderful thing about racks is... u can get them used for cheap... however... the cases to go into the racks are not so cheap, and also typically require loud fans.
However watercooling them would change all that.

I started actually looking and the cases don't seem that bad, at least not from some initial searches. Racks are super cheap on craigslist, thankfully.

I actually might end up buying a few. I doubt I'll be able to use just 8U for the watercooling though. >_>

 

[kasakka]

The only reason why I stick with ATX is because I have a case for it already. To me it seems case design is as bad as it is mostly because the parts that need to be crammed in haven't been designed to be small.

All extension slots are these big slots when surely today those connectors could be crammed into a much smaller surface area. Because of that desktop graphics cards are these humongous boards rather than for example two smaller ones side by side (with cooling on both sides). And why are power supplies so big? Not to mention most people have no need for the 3+ 5.25" drives or 6+ HDDs most cases allocate.

Even desktops are becoming LESS upgradable with Intel requiring new sockets for each generation, new DDR versions coming every few years and people just not having a great need to upgrade as software hasn't caught up with hardware.

 

[Agent11]

I like 5.25 bays, you can put in hotswap drive cages, watercooling reservoirs, lcd panels and all sorts of goodies in them. Also their size works well for 120mm radiators if you have enough of them.

The possibilities are almost limitless.

 

[Zap]

There is little reason to limit your future expansion to cut 3 pounds of metal and make it a tighter fit. If you are building a full blown desktop you are doing it because you want it to be more option filled and configurable than an ITX setup.

That's like saying sedans limit your future expansion, so everyone should either go with a motorcycle or go with a huge SUV/van with three rows of seats.

Isn't it good to have the option for an in-between?

 

[Topweasel]

That's like saying sedans limit your future expansion, so everyone should either go with a motorcycle or go with a huge SUV/van with three rows of seats.

Isn't it good to have the option for an in-between?

I didn't say that. I said the market has spoken. If you tried selling a crossover sub compact SUV "crossover" with van doors and didn't sell would keep designing and selling them?

mATX has been an option for decades and has had very decent selections at different points in it's life. But as people make smaller and smaller full ATX cases (HAF 912 for example) that use internal flexibility to make use of the smaller footprint and as ITX grows in popularity, you notice that mATX has taken a large hit in options. That means the market has spoken, maybe you have use for a sub compact crossover with van doors, doesn't mean that its a viable enough platform for sale of the item.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I didn't say that. I said the market has spoken. If you tried selling a crossover sub compact SUV "crossover" with van doors and didn't sell would keep designing and selling them?

mATX has been an option for decades and has had very decent selections at different points in it's life. But as people make smaller and smaller full ATX cases (HAF 912 for example) that use internal flexibility to make use of the smaller footprint and as ITX grows in popularity, you notice that mATX has taken a large hit in options. That means the market has spoken, maybe you have use for a sub compact crossover with van doors, doesn't mean that its a viable enough platform for sale of the item.

Huh? What has the market spoken about? It seems to me the opposite is true. There are many more mATX choices now than there were a few years ago. Xigmatek Aquila, Thermaltake Armor A30i, Bitfenix Phenom, Aerocool DS, and several others have just been released. Maybe the people who actually sell this stuff for a living know something we don't know?

Granted, several of the cases listed also can use mITX so it may be that cases in the future will come in mostly two flavors: mITX/mATX OR ATX/EATX

Also, the Haf 912 that you cite as an example is roughly TWICE the size of the N200 I'm using. My son has the Haf 912 and its a great case but i wouldn't want it sitting on my desk.

It's great to have choices.

 

[Topweasel]

Huh? What has the market spoken about? It seems to me the opposite is true. There are many more mATX choices now than there were a few years ago. Xigmatek Aquila, Thermaltake Armor A30i, Bitfenix Phenom, Aerocool DS, and several others have just been released. Maybe the people who actually sell this stuff for a living know something we don't know?

Granted, several of the cases listed also can use mITX so it may be that cases in the future will come in mostly two flavors: mITX/mATX OR ATX/EATX

Also, the Haf 912 that you cite as an example is roughly TWICE the size of the N200 I'm using. My son has the Haf 912 and its a great case but i wouldn't want it sitting on my desk.

It's great to have choices.

It is great, but no mATX options have gone down a lot. Part of it is the Growth of ITX and the second is was the reestablishment of multi card gaming with SLI/CFX. In 2005/2006 mATX got a lot of attention. Almost as many options mATX as full ATX. Right now there might be a handful different and matx cases hoping to establish fill a niche or market demand.

But for example the BitFenix setup is an ITX case first and foremost that really should have been an mATX case because after the fact they decided they could throw on a couple slots and make it mATX. The new one is taking pretty much the same chasis and taking the handles off of it and basically just offering the mATX version out of the gate. That and the mATX version loses so much of the Flexibility the ITX version, so the one reason to pick mATX instead of ITX gets thrown out the door.

I am not saying there is no market. I am not saying that good mATX cases won't be coming out in the future. I am not saying mATX is dead or even dieing. All I am saying is that overall and not just because of ITX or shorter mid tower ATX cases, that mATX doesn't get the love some people including the OP desire because the market has spoken and there is less desire for matx by enthusiasts overall. Another reason is Laptops. As laptops and especially gaming laptops have become more and more affordable. There are less and less reason for someone to have a semi limited computer setup that is still pretty bulky at your desk. If you move around a lot (go to lan's and stuff) a laptop or ITX setup can do well. If you have size desires or limitations again most will shift towards the smallest setup not mid ground.

I am not trying to invalidate anyones opinions. There is a reason why there are something like 300 different cases on Newegg. There is enough variation in peoples desires to allow for a pretty wide array of fragmentation. Even then I don't know how many times I read about someone not being able to find his/her perfect case (the OP kind of being an example). It's just overall not given the love it used to.