Thoughts on 'paid leave'?

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,651
50,912
136
The birth rate is already below replacement in the United States. While that's arguably better for the environment, ask Russia, Japan etc how great that is for social structures.
I would like one of the people who advocate for declining population to offer an example of a place where declining population has turned out to be good.
 
Nov 17, 2019
12,310
7,431
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Whether or not a company offers a benefit should be up to the company. Maybe by choice. Maybe by contract negotiations. It should NOT be required by law.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
Where I'm from (Germany) it's 12 months mandatory paid leave and 14 if the father wants two months BUT you have the right to request twice that and this can be done up to the childs 8'th birthday.

Employers plan ahead as notice is given and that's fine. Obviously the days for sick leaver or for taking care of your sick child are not regulated, as it works in any civilized nation.

Naturally your paid vacation is not counted towards any of that so you'll still get your four weeks every year (which is a bit low compared to other nations) so you can add that in there.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
Whether or not a company offers a benefit should be up to the company. Maybe by choice. Maybe by contract negotiations. It should NOT be required by law.

LOL... yeah, and you wonder why your workers are fed up to their fucking NECKS with your abject bullshit.

This is so incredibly dumb, you're not more productive than other nations per capita but you sure love to teach your employees that they are useless scum sucking away profit.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,944
5,569
136
Why would it end your business? This makes no sense as your competitors would have to provide the same benefit.

I mean the entire world has this benefit so the idea that it would lead to some catastrophe is pretty self evidently silly.
Because I'm already at the top of the market. Most people can't afford my services, so they end up going to the illegal operators. Those guy's pay cash, no insurance, no OT, no license. If they weren't greedy as hell it would be impossible to compete with them.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,131
37,424
136
Because I'm already at the top of the market. Most people can't afford my services, so they end up going to the illegal operators. Those guy's pay cash, no insurance, no OT, no license. If they weren't greedy as hell it would be impossible to compete with them.

So...you're saying the market works.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
Because I'm already at the top of the market. Most people can't afford my services, so they end up going to the illegal operators. Those guy's pay cash, no insurance, no OT, no license. If they weren't greedy as hell it would be impossible to compete with them.

So instead of fixing your fucking problems with illegal operators you take it out on the employees? And this makes sense to you?

Reminds me of history lessons on how the nobility over here in Germany used to treat people.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,618
2,263
126
Allowing time off is one thing. Paying you to stay home and burp a kid is another.

Who does your job while you're out? Do they hire somebody else temporarily, raising costs by paying two people? Or do they offload your duties onto someone else, increasing their job load?

Paying people to do not work is a bad idea. If you want Family leave, fine. Go use your PTO/Vacation time. You want to be paid to be off work and still retain all your other time off as well? Sorry, but you cant have your cake and eat it too.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,618
2,263
126
I worked construction nearly all my life. If you aren't on the job...you don't get paid. No paid vacation, no paid sick days, no paid holidays, no paid family leave...and if you're gone more than a day or two...the company might just call the union hall and get a replacement for you.
I never had a problem with that.

Its those lazy socialists / democrats /etc., always looking to hook people on handouts.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,131
37,424
136
So instead of fixing your fucking problems with illegal operators you take it out on the employees? And this makes sense to you?

Reminds me of history lessons on how the nobility over here in Germany used to treat people.

We've had a shortage of trade workers for well as long as I can remember. This void has long been filled by illegal labor from abroad and not just Mexico...lots of Poles when I was in Chicago. Instead of increasing the legal supply of this labor through immigration and doing tighter regulation of employers we've just pushed it under the table, which is traditionally how America usually chooses to deal with policy problems.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
Paying people to do not work is a bad idea. If you want Family leave, fine. Go use your PTO/Vacation time. You want to be paid to be off work and still retain all your other time off as well? Sorry, but you cant have your cake and eat it too.

The nobility has spoken and family values are NOT important when it costs nobility even less than nothing. As I said, the rule is 12-18 MONTHS of paid time off for the mother (or the father) and other nations are not suffering from productivity issues as YOU ARE.

So maybe his highness looking down on his peasants should stop pissing on them for a while and see if that helps?
 
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MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
We've had a shortage of trade workers for well as long as I can remember. This void has long been filled by illegal labor from abroad and not just Mexico...lots of Poles when I was in Chicago. Instead of increasing the legal supply of this labor through immigration and doing tighter regulation of employers we've just pushed it under the table, which is traditionally how America usually chooses to deal with policy problems.

I've heard this story before, those damn Poles... Last time I heard about it it was Nigel Farage spouting his fascist shit. Here's a novel idea, or not so novel, just more novel than any American idea about labor rights, industry wide unions, labor laws and as soon as fuck you'll see that there are people who will do the jobs needed without even having to bring in outsiders to dump wages (which is what that is used for in every nation).
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,253
10,841
136
Population growth over the past 10 years is at its lowest since the great depression. We currently have insufficient population growth to sustain the population without immigration. So no, we don't.

There is what capitalism and the consumer economy needs to maintain, and what the earth can actually support. At least without massive changes to how we live, farm, and deal with waste and resource usage.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
no one defends the rich business owners quite like Americans, it's insane the lengths that people go to in order to justify it even with plenty of world wide examples of a better way

The way the American worker has been absolutely brainwashed to relish the idea of working as hard as possible for as many hours as possible for as little pay as possible is noble, or character building, or honorable is fucking insane. "I worked 90 hours a week and never slept and never saw my family and damnit I'm a hard worker!" .... k.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,111
21,234
136
no one defends the rich business owners quite like Americans, it's insane the lengths that people go to in order to justify it even with plenty of world wide examples of a better way
It's insane.

I lose sleep that I didn't get into a career that would allow me to move to Europe.

Honestly I thought after Obama got elected we were actually going to start moving forward faster so I was happy and content. Then the GQP filth party blocked everything if his, and then Trump came, and I realized almost half this country are just assholes and we ain't going anywhere with that amount of the population being shitheads and the archaic political system here

Now I want that escape plan, but it's going to be much more complex than it would have been with another job.
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,126
5,151
146
Railing against something that helps workers just because these benefits either weren't available when you worked, or you never took advantage of them, is pretty sad.

The whole point of working hard and advancing society is to make things better for the next generation, otherwise you're nothing but a selfish piece of shit.

Should we force young engineers to use slide rules because, "Back in my day, that's all we had and it was hard, but I did it so they should to!"?

When I was starting out in my career, I worked hard (> 50 hours/week) and the company didn't give us many benefits. I'm still with them, and in that time they've added 401k matching, additional PTO, etc, and now I'm a manager who lets my team leave early if they get their work done (and I make sure they never work as much as I did when I was younger) - something that the managers I previously worked under would have a stroke about. The only thing I'm angry about is that I can't give my employees more.
 
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