Thoughts regarding the X-Box...

[charlesincharge]

<< Just buy all the consoles: DC, PS2, XBOX, GC. The way peeps seem to upgrade their video cards (every 6 months) demonstrates that cost is certainly not a problem. >>


One is about all i can afford, as much as i would like the ps2 also.
But all kidding aside, I just spent the last 4 hours gaming online with halo and nascar (no im not a nascar fan) and OMG it was SO much fun.


I only have halo and nascar and i think i can squize enough dough fer one more title, can someone suggest the second best title for xbawz?(in your opinion of course)

 

[Insane3D]

DOA3, Project Gotham Racing

 

[VisionsUCI]

I'm glad that everybody can post their opinions in this thread, although I think that we've had enough posts with only like three words in them. The XBOX is a good system, and I'm sure when more games come out for it, I'll get one. Also, programming will be a lot easier for the console than others, like the PS2. It will be easy for manufacturers also to use standard dvd disks rather than the small optical ones tha nintendo has. My question is whether there will be a good hack of the XBOX in the near future allowing us to play its games on PC. And, for that matter, since the XBOX is so similar to my pc (almost the same specs), I'm wondering why there aren't games for the PC that would self load without having to be installed. Imagine putting CS into your cdrom drive, logging on, and then playing it... (my two cents)

 

[Bluga]

Check out gamespot's Games of the Year. Only DOA and Halo make it. All other are PS2 games.

 

[MrWhiteUK]

Some people really make me cringe, I would like to post hurling abuse at them but I wont. I will calmly say people who think the xbox is a low-end pc are missing vital information. I see where you're coming from, you look at the parts and think, hmm Pentium processor, nVidia gpu, hold my PC has faster parts.

Correct, most people do have faster cpus it's not the point. What you need to do is read up (uh oh he said the 'R' word I'm outta here) on how the PC and Xbox (or PS2 for that matter) render graphics. Read how data is transported around, how memory is accessed, what the difference is between the busses and layout. THEN come back with a comment.

Why do people get so riled up about it anyway, hey someone has released a machine to play games which is more powerful, cheaper, easy to use and less problems than my PC, damn them!

 

[tecumseh]

"Why do people get so riled up about it anyway, hey someone has released a machine to play games which is more powerful, cheaper, easy to use and less problems than my PC, damn them!"

We'll it matters what type of game you like to play!! Games such as the Sims, AoE, UT, Quake, Combat: Overlord, Everquest, DAoC, Diablo 2, Red Alert, Civ series and Balders Gate 2 are better played on the PC.

Games such as Madden 2001, DOA 3, FF series, MGS series, SH series, Mario and Lugi, Pikiman NBA live series, Fifa series, GT series and Project Gothem are better played on the console.

Then you have your in-betweens: Halo, GTA series, Max Payne could be played equally on the PC and console. (IMO)

Different styles of play fit different systems better.

 

[Supahfreak]

I have a Gamecube, it's the sh!t. That said, my friend got his son an XBOX for Christmas and they really like it and Halo. The only problem they mentioned is when they play Halo in Dolby Digital they hear a "crackling". It's prolly not the unit cause they can play DVD's fine in DTS. Anyone else have a flawed Halo out there. We are thinking it's the game since the movies play OK and it only happens when they play Halo. Anyhoo, I would get an XBOX but Christmas has run me BROKE:disgust:

FreAk

 

[bjc112]

the only way the Geforce 3 in some of out computers would be able to hang in there for games like DOA3 would be to have UDMA? or is it UMA?

 

[bjc112]

<< Check out gamespot's Games of the Year. Only DOA and Halo make it. All other are PS2 games. >>



well considering XBOX has only been out for a lil over a month, that doesnt qualify many games ....

shows you how god HALO is

Supa freak my friend does have a bad HALO disc... he can only play multiplayer on it, he's gotta take it back, i wonder if a bad batch shipped?!?

 

[charlesincharge]

<< That said, my friend got his son an XBOX for Christmas and they really like it and Halo. The only problem they mentioned is when they play Halo in Dolby Digital they hear a "crackling". It's prolly not the unit cause they can play DVD's fine in DTS. >>


They should return the game for another one or something. Mine works flawless, even with THX. Although i wish i can get my GTPXP to werk with it, but thats hercules' fault.

 

[ElFenix]

<< It will be easy for manufacturers also to use standard dvd disks rather than the small optical ones tha nintendo has. >>

thats not an issue. microsoft presses the discs for xbox itself, so that not even the devs know the anti-priacy features of them. i think nintendo does the same.



<< or is it UMA? >>

its UMA. which makes it akin to running the whole program on your geforce alone and using the AGP bus to get data to the p3. the p3 is behind the northbridge though, and instead of writing directly to the GPU's ram it writes to system ram, which is far slower.

 

[ArchAngel777]

For the LOVE OF GOD, stop making the same idiotic grammar mistake. I have seen it like 346 times in this thread; it's pathetic, and obnoxious.

3rd Grade English Lesson:

Your= Possessive
"Bring your bike into the garage"
"Eat your fruits and vegetables"

You're= You ARE
"You're an idiot"


Hmmmm, that is pretty lame to nit pick grammer.

 

[CTho9305]

<<

<< and if you think an Xbox will outperform a high end computer... your DREAMING... >>


Just by this comment I know you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Play DOA3 and come back and tell me which PC game looks better. I'll help you out...there are NONE. And this is a game that came out on the XBox's launch! >>



by this comment you show YOU have no idea what you're talking about. this is not a fair comparison. to be fair, you would have to write a PC game aimed SOLELY at high end machines. if you went ahead and dropped support for anything sub 1ghz, sub geforce3/radeon 8500, sub 512mb ram, the PC would kick the crap out of the xbox. AND PC games are played at 1024*768 and higher, not 320*200 or whatever TVs are.

I'm sure an Xbox could be emulated at faster-than-original speeds on a good PC with a current Geforce3 (or possibly whatever is top of the line in 6 months)

 

[CTho9305]

<<

<< How many people actually have a 3,000 dollar plus HDTV setup?
mine was $1300 and i have had broadband for going on 2 1/2 years. I dont care about the majority. >>



You should. The majority is what dictates what programmers put into the games. >>



this is why the xbox may LOOK faster than current PCs. programmers write Xbox apps to use the max available power of the majority of Xboxes - which is of course the same across the board. programmers write PC apps to work on anything from (sub)400mhz to 2ghz+, but in order to not write two completely separate versions, it will be slow on the low end machines and not take full advantage of the high end machines.

 

[Dug]

<< Man, another misinformed person. >>


Whatever dude. Like I said nobody gives a crap about 4-5 year old consoles.
How many PS1 threads do you see popping up around here?



<< by this comment you show YOU have no idea what you're talking about. this is not a fair comparison. to be fair, you would have to write a PC game aimed SOLELY at high end machines. if you went ahead and dropped support for anything sub 1ghz, sub geforce3/radeon 8500, sub 512mb ram, the PC would kick the crap out of the xbox. AND PC games are played at 1024*768 and higher, not 320*200 or whatever TVs are. >>



It is a fair comparison. Because you're speaking hypotheticaly. You say IF. IF doesn't get you to far in the real world.
But lets take your example for a second and say someone did write a program specifically for a high end system. How is that going to kick the crap out of the xbox. What can be rendered RIGHT NOW on a Geforce 3 ti500 that can't be done on an xbox gpu with dual vertex shaders?
BTW Xbox games are 640x480. This can be done interlaced or progressive. ALL games support this. And yes there are games that are designed to run 1080i too. Which is about equivelant to 1280x1024.

One last thing. I still don't see any pc games take advantage of dd 5.1.

 

[BeauJangles]

I felt the Xbox's controller detracted from the gaming experience. It feels like a cheap POS, and it is much too large.

 

[ragiepew]

<< "While I do agree that they are expensive some people can afford them... hell the xbox has sold near 1M systems in just over a month. So from that stand point the XBox is sucessfull... like I said, I think there is plenty of room for 3 players in the console market."

Again someone else who is sadly misinformed!!!

What the EXPERTS and PROFESSIONALS are predicting:

1st place) PS2
2nd place) GC
3rd place) Xbox

They always knew that the Xbox was going to do well at launch, but the real test will be in 4-5 years. Can the Xbox penetrate 50-65 million American homes?? I say that it will not be done!!!The PS2's dominance is much to powerful at the moment. And where are the exclusive titles for the Xbox? Besides Halo (which is Awesome) I just don't see it!! MGS2, GTA3?? Didn't people just play these titles on there PS2's??? By the time the Xbox puts out these titles, they will be old news!!! These titles will be old by then!!!

And let's not even get started on the Japanese market. It's been proven time and time again, that if you don't win over the Japanese market your console will FAIL!! There is no if's, and's or but's about it. And the Japanese market hates Microsoft!!!

Glad I didn't buy an Xbox!

>>



It really doesn't matter what anyone is predicting... take a look @ actual numbers if you want... Noriaki posted this and here's a little exerpt from it...

"
<< Sony sold 962,000 PlayStation 2 consoles between Nov. 11 and Dec. 8, according to CSFB estimates based on figures compiled by research firm NPDFunworld. Microsoft, which launched xbox on Nov. 15, sold 934,000 consoles. The GameCube, introduced Nov. 18, sold 602,000. >>

From the LA Times article.

Should have posted that up top.
Actually the PS2 has a 4 day advantage in these numbers. Didn't notice that before.

xbox and PS2 are pretty damn close as is...

That's 28day run for the PS2, or ~34,357/day
And a 24day run for the xbox, or ~38,917/day

Perhaps PS2 isn't in the lead after all.
"

Please sir do YOUR research before posting... therese are Actual numbers... no estimates my friend.

Anyway, the whole point of my posting in this thread is to raise the question of why we all must go bashing eachother... there IS room for 3 players in the console market... just because Sega didnt make it doesn't mean that MS wont... Sega is not Microsoft now are they...

 

[Damascus]

<<

<< It will be easy for manufacturers also to use standard dvd disks rather than the small optical ones tha nintendo has. >>

thats not an issue. microsoft presses the discs for xbox itself, so that not even the devs know the anti-priacy features of them. i think nintendo does the same. >>



This is true for every console. The developers NEVER get to touch the discs. All disc
pressing is done by the maker of the console whether it be Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony.

ragiepew: I thought everyone had already discredited those numbers since they
were taken by NPD.

 

[Agent004]

<< << Sony sold 962,000 PlayStation 2 consoles between Nov. 11 and Dec. 8, according to CSFB estimates based on figures compiled by research firm NPDFunworld. Microsoft, which launched xbox on Nov. 15, sold 934,000 consoles. The GameCube, introduced Nov. 18, sold 602,000. >>

From the LA Times article.

Should have posted that up top.
Actually the PS2 has a 4 day advantage in these numbers. Didn't notice that before.

xbox and PS2 are pretty damn close as is...

That's 28day run for the PS2, or ~34,357/day
And a 24day run for the xbox, or ~38,917/day

>>



That's like comparing an rotten apple to pears.

Let's not forget that those numbers are for launch of XBox, while figures for PS2 are not. If the launch figures of XBox only managed to match PS2 in it's current sales. After launch, XBox will be outsold pretty badly. PS2 will win by the virtue of user installment bases and numbers.

 

[Punker429]

This is my first post here on Anandtech; I?ve been reading the reviews for at least a year now so I figure hey why not join! Well One thing I own both Xbox and PS2 they are both very similar lots of people are saying the Xbox is very poor but its still new technology hasn?t been tested and used to the full advantage of all that power it?s packing. One thing that would be cool is, I really like the Nintendo game cube controllers and hate the Xbox controllers, I hope somebody makes some sort of adapter that would allow you to use the game cube controllers with the Xbox, the game cube controllers are one of the best controllers I have used.

 

[Supahfreak]

<< This is my first post here on Anandtech; >>



Welcome Dude!!!

Dont worry, just upping my posts. I'm not gay

FreAk:Q

 

[ragiepew]

with response to the numbers... I didnt post them to compare XBox to PS2 to GC... i posted them to refute tecumseh's claims... other than that the numbers have no meaning... you are right, xbox/gc are new and comparing their numbers to PS2 wouldn't make much sense... just like comparing top selling games... the PS2 always will win because of its established user base.

That said, I think both XBox and GC are doing quite well and both (as well as the PS2 ) have some great games... why cant we just compare games and not have to worry about which consoles they are made for... ahh utopia... we will never get there it seems ...

<edit>
Oh... Welcome Punker429!!!
</edit>

 

[DamienVorlion]

What a load of crap.

I had a PS2, and now I have an XBOX.

I noticed how most of the PS2 owners are saying that an XBOX is a "low end computer"; if you believe that truly than that statement implies that a PS2 is a "game boy". The XBOX has a superior hardware design, by far of any game console out there.

And what about this "bulky" controller issue; too big for your little hands? It feels and fits my hands the best of any controller I have held. It does look bulky, but it?s not in the looks but in the functions. The same goes for the XBOX "bulky" console. It's smaller than my modern S-video VCR and I have no idea why anyone would bring this issue up, unless for a pathetic "your spelling mistakes" last bluff.

Another thing, modern computer games are written for DirectX, not some 5 copies over to support every high/low end system configuration. If your system can keep up, they run up to specs, if your system can't, they will run slower.

Since XBOX uses DirectX 8, it will be a breeze to port any modern computer game to the system and to write new games. And when they do start rolling out in a few months, the sales will truly show which system the consumers prefer.

My XBOX has never frozen. The OS is a hacked kernel version of Win2K, with only a few drivers and a very small ideal kernel.

 

[erub]

Wow, I just read that whole thread Some valid points are made up here.

I like the way the controllers for the XBOX are. I have long hands (bigger than most), and it just feels great. Very sturdy too, and it feels like it won't be affected by small bumps and such. Same with the XBOX - it feels durable. Who cares how big it is? How big is your TV?!? My DVD player is much larger, and its about the same size as my VCR - boohoo. I hope you can afford flat panel displays and micro ATX cases, otherwise your computer is much larger too .

Halo is awesome. I played online yesterday. I got my ass whooped, but that's just cause I'm not that good at FPS yet. And no, I didn't pay Microsoft - gamespy has a special addon program to start games on the XBOX.

I rented NHL 2002 - very cool game, although I wouldn't buy it (I don't like hockey that much). NASCAR Racing is also very fun. The XBOX must be very popular cause blockbuster is almost all out of games - I guess it will be a while till I try DOA3

The XBOX is not meant, like some of you people think, to totally eradicate PC Gaming as it exists today - it appeals to a different market segment.

 

[tecumseh]

"I didnt post them to compare XBox to PS2 to GC... i posted them to refute tecumseh's claims"

Muwahahahahahahhhhahahahahhaa j/k

Ah the great console wars. I remember back in the day when you had Atari, Intellivision and Coleco. I don't think the fans of those systems were as loyal as today's fans though.

I did see DOA 3 last night at my local Eb's and I have to admit that it did look incredible. I will also admit that the PC could never pull off DOA 3 as well as the Xbox could. For me personally, I kinda grew out of the fighting games. We'll, they were never my favorites anyway. I do love sports games (Madden, fifa, etc..) and the console is the system to really enjoy that type of gaming genre.

Maybe in a year I'll get an Xbox. But for now I can wait!