So, between 'stop having kids', and 'stop shifting all the money to the top 1% at the expense of destroying the middle class and increasing poverty greatly', we have your vote.
I make 100k/year. My partner makes 60k/year. Even at 160k/year, we don't feel like we are economically viable to have kids yet. I just read in the article that one of the strikers have 4 kids and make minimum.
Economy is bad. Stop having kids. I don't blame them for wanting a better life but is you know you are in a bad economic situation, don't have kids.
Hmmm... :hmm:
I make 100k/year. My partner makes 60k/year. Even at 160k/year, we don't feel like we are economically viable to have kids yet. I just read in the article that one of the strikers have 4 kids and make minimum.
Economy is bad. Stop having kids. I don't blame them for wanting a better life but is you know you are in a bad economic situation, don't have kids.
Hmmm... :hmm:
this is another topic for another thread.
BUT if you can't have a kid on 160k you really need to look at the budget and figure out where you are wasting a ton of money.
BUT if you can't have a kid on 160k you really need to look at the budget and figure out where you are wasting a ton of money.
You're saying taking a baseline and raising it to a new baseline magically makes EVERYBODY permanently wealthier?
Here's a hint:
That's not true and it's all in perspective. They most likely live in a comfortable life style, why should they give up that life style to have children? Also, he sounds like a person who would be very good at planning out his family's future.
Introducing a kid to the world is hella expensive. Plus, with both of them working, they would have to hire a nanny and such. Then there is education, they most likely want what is best for their child, so they may spring for Private School instead of shoving their child into the shitty public school system. Then there is college to pay for.
Having a kid isn't just popping one out and dealing with it year by year. Good parents have a plan that ensures that the child has a very bright future. The problem with families is that these days they pop out kids and live from paycheck to paycheck, some working at the same type of jobs as McDonalds. Then they wonder why they can't support a family and blame it on the rich people, a bunch of morons And people wonder why our society is so fucked right now.
If their salary is doubled mine should be too.
That's illogical..
Waggy, can you even read? You would rather pay for people to live on welfare than for their employer to give them a livable wage? And you would do this simply because of the field their job is in? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Our parents managed to do a great job and not fuck up. And they didn't plan it down to every penny. Sometimes people tend to over complicate things. What you're forgetting is that one of the biggest factors is the parents themselves, not their money. I went to a magnet school for middle and high school in the "hood." Didn't have a lot of money growing up either. I could go on and on but there's no point. I won't knock him for not being comfortable with "only" $160k/year. I just find it silly, that's all
i'm with waggy on this one. i don't feel sorry for those people at all. i worked as a bagger in a grocery store when i was 14 until i was 22 graduating college and got my first "real" job. 2 of the summers while in college i was working 2 jobs at the same time.
my bagging job i earned $5.25/hr + tips.
one of my other summer jobs i made $13/hr and it was doing IT support type stuff.
the other summer job was at best buy making like $8.75/hr. both of those summer jobs i worked WHILE also working as a bagger at the grocery store.
there are actually some adults who work there "career" wise at the grocery store. they don't have families and probably live like shit. they are really nice people though and i still talk to a few of them when i go to the store. but they have nobody to blame but themselves for their position. i busted my ass in school to get a degree while i was working there, and it paid off.
these workers should not feel entitled to DOUBLE their pay for doing the EXACT SAME THIGN they have been doing at the current rate. if it costs too much to live where they are living, MOVE THE FUCK OUT OF THE AREA TO SOMEWHERE CHEAPER! 100% guaranteed if they move out, that some teens will take the position for the same price.
why do they feel they should be able to live in NYC with mcdonalds pay? oh yea ... ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY!
Also if I had a choice? I would definitely not have my kids going to school in the "hood".
A laugh at the idea that "the country" or "the government" is responsible for making sure you have a job or enough money for cell phones, flat screens and an X-Box.
Let's put things in perspective here. These jobs exist AT ALL because consumers are buying product from a private company. Period. FUCKING PERIOD.
So let's say all McDonald's jobs went away, now what? You aren't entitled to "have something to do" or to be paid. You are not entitled.
Nice strawman.
The fact is, if we want to have McD's open for breakfast and lunch, it needs to be staffed by people who aren't in school. Lacking enough multimillionaire philanthropists, society is faced with *needing* adults to work those jobs. You simply cannot eliminate that fact. We can't have 100% of our society employed as doctors, lawyers, and engineers.
Increasing the minimum wage has nothing to do with increasing the money supply.
Entitlement mentality? Maybe they grew up there?
As has been posted many times in this thread, the real value of minimum wage has dropped like a rock since the 70s. If it kept up with productivity gains, minimum wage would be over $20/hr.
Yeah, there are some people who started off without much in life, worked hard, made all the right choices, and have elevated themselves, but there are plenty of people who have been stuck in the cycle of poverty with no way out.
Some people are born to crappy parents. Some made a stupid mistake or decision when they were younger. Some didn't have enough money to go to college. Some people were abused by an older person. Some were lazy when they were 18, but now work 60+hrs a week.
Those of us who were more fortunate can either use our relative success to help others out by paying an extra nickel for our Big Mac, or we could say fuck them and make ourselves feel charitable by occasionally talking to the guy bagging our groceries.
I know my parents did a great job and not fuck up, but I also know that they had to grind out a life. We certainly weren't well off, and they knew the sacrifices they had to make, which they made. Meaning longer work hours, less vacation, less luxuries.
Also if I had a choice? I would definitely not have my kids going to school in the "hood".
The only reasonable solution is to ban McDonalds.
/Bloomberg
this is another topic for another thread.
BUT if you can't have a kid on 160k you really need to look at the budget and figure out where you are wasting a ton of money.
They'd just raise prices.
Geez. Not everyone is like you.
160k can be not that much if you're paying off grad school debt. 100k can be enough to keep you afloat with payments, rent, and food, and they might rely on the extra 60k to make headway into paying down debt and starting to build a nest-egg for a house. Losing the 60k while his wife is off work could be something that isn't in the cards for them.
Here is a fun fact for you. Engineers (The "basis" of the middle class") coming out of college on average make ~$52k a year (4 year degree). As salary there is expectations of 40hr+ min a week. (45 is a good point). Add on top of that days the business is closed/vacation time all employees get.
$52k / 50 weeks (2 weeks of vaca/closed down time) = $1040 / wk
$1040 wk / 45 hours a week = $23.11 / hr
So if minimum wage was to drastically jump to say $15-$20 for no schooling vs $23-24 an hour after 4 years of possible debt an college. And you do not see an issue with that?
Just some fun math for everyone. It goes to show it isn't just minimum wage that is falling behind, but all wages. Thus JUST raising the minimum wage would have drastic consequences as that is not the primary issue, but an overhaul of the system (which will not happen)
Here's another fun fact for you.
Construction labourers (ie, unskilled, no training, shovel monkeys) make ~$16/hr (depending on demand and geography etc etc), while a carpenter apprentice (skilled, trade school educated) makes ~$14/hr.
Sometimes you make less doing skilled work because of the upside of career advancement. The labourers will be doing labour at $16/hr + inflation forever. The apprentice will become a journeyman after a few years, and can then move up to foreman ($70k), superintendent($100k), and maybe even project manager ($150k+).
You can also look around to other countries. Minimum wage in many places in Canada is $10/hr. In Australia it's over $16/hr (with discounts for age, disability, geography etc). Raising the minimum wage doesn't blow up the economy and turn the country upside down.
I don't have any student loans but I'm living comfortably (living in a single family home) and saving up money with less money than that and with 3 children in the DC metro area. You could throw in student loan payments and I'd still be ok. Like he was coming down on the "fast food worker," maybe he needs to learn how to live within his means.