Threadripper BUILDERS thread

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ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
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So you're not a CFD guy but are a fluid dynamics expert yea? Um, no I'm not attributing the benefits of modern blocks to jet plate design, although many did move to a central inlet design as to cool the block evenly from the center outward. I'm saying clearly that the Glacier is a rudimentary design and the jet plate is a superior design. The differences are not fractional.



Sorry, I'm not talking about water delta.
You directly said compare blocks from 2005 to 2017, while focusing on the jet plate. What is a person to think? Also, water delta is fractional. Now how that translates to die heat removal is a different story. As you mentioned, the central position of inlet/outlet did a lot. But you are leaving so much out of what you are saying so as to seam unintelligible, when it is obvious you do possess knowledge.

My recommendation is take a moment, write down the qualifications of your statement (like removal of other factors) while trying to explain the benefits of the jet plate. Don't write with assumptions people will fill in the gaps. I think this will help get your point across.


Edit: also, you directly said hot and cold side in your original post. This is based on the ability of the water to take up heat and the movement of the fluid. So water delta is directly relevant.
 
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Atari2600

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2016
1,409
1,655
136
A good design will ensure even cooling across the IHS. A poor approach may leave some localised stagnated regions of water - which then poorly transfer heat into the main "flow" exiting the sink, causing a local temperature rise in the sink, on the IHS and eventually on the CPU. It'd be similar to what the issue of lack of coverage of TR4 with existing AIOs is - but even less pronounced than the already marginal (at stock) problems.

So less than optimal, but far from a problem (in fact, virtually negligible).
 
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ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
I am not going to RMA mine. The hassle is not worth it and like you said it's possible you will get another stick that doesn't run 3600. It's likely Gskill only tested these kits on Intel mainstream parts where 3600 is easily achievable.
Yeah, the thought of RMAing and facing the same issue maid me nauseous last night..
So, I'm currently re-running my 3466 testing + memtest right now. If It passes and no boot loops after some days of abuse, i'll lock that in as the max and wait until there is an update (possibly bios) about this situation. Good thing is, I can RMA this down the road if need be when things change (warranty).

Time to get comfy with this setup and get real work done. It's been long enough
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
AJC9988 is correct. The difference between the water at different points is at most fractions of a degree. A computer system is not like a car that can cause massive deltas in water temperature due to high temperatures. The water moves so quickly in your loop, the differences are negligible. Also, one of the reasons why order of components in your loop doesn't matter (except reservoir to pump).
Hmmm, how do you guys explain the massive amount of heat that pours out of the radiator when you're pushing the system vs not then? Obviously there's a considerable delta in the hot vs cold water? Or are you saying it's not actually as the full body of the water heats in such scenarios and the traversal through the loop/rad only drop it somewhat? I'm actually more shocked that there are no animations or analysis of this jet plane design if its so revolutionary. You have two dies contacting the cold plate pouring localized heat into them with some differential, the problem I'm trying to solve is how these inlet/outlet designs ensure inlet water goes to each die equally and out in a region or fashion that collectively grabs the hot water from both equally? Can this be done w/ any contact block design. Do you guys (with custom water blocks) see temperature differentials between dies when you're pushing your setups based on where the inlet/outlets are (cold->hot) side? It just seems moreso that this mechanism was meant for one central die : Inlet cold water on it and outlet it off die. With threadripper, it appears they didn't or couldn't resolve this fundamental ideology for two spread dies and thus just scaled everything. Problem is : You have inlet water pouring on one die whose heated water then traverse to the other and then captures some more heat and then out? Is this mitigated by water's capability to absorb heat efficiently whereby it still can just as efficiently absorb die #2's heat even in a heated state as good as it did die #1?
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,440
5,429
136
Hmmm, how do you guys explain the massive amount of heat that pours out of the radiator when you're pushing the system vs not then? Obviously there's a considerable delta in the hot vs cold water? Or are you saying it's not actually as the full body of the water heats in such scenarios and the traversal through the loop/rad only drop it somewhat? I'm actually more shocked that there are no animations or analysis of this jet plane design if its so revolutionary. You have two dies contacting the cold plate pouring localized heat into them with some differential, the problem I'm trying to solve is how these inlet/outlet designs ensure inlet water goes to each die equally and out in a region or fashion that collectively grabs the hot water from both equally? Can this be done w/ any contact block design. Do you guys (with custom water blocks) see temperature differentials between dies when you're pushing your setups based on where the inlet/outlets are (cold->hot) side? It just seems moreso that this mechanism was meant for one central die : Inlet cold water on it and outlet it off die. With threadripper, it appears they didn't or couldn't resolve this fundamental ideology for two spread dies and thus just scaled everything. Problem is : You have inlet water pouring on one die whose heated water then traverse to the other and then captures some more heat and then out? Is this mitigated by water's capability to absorb heat efficiently whereby it still can just as efficiently absorb die #2's heat even in a heated state as good as it did die #1?

This is mitigated by flow and the extremely high heat capacity of water.

Optimized flow designs will help, but the gains will be marginal.
 
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ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
Hmmm, how do you guys explain the massive amount of heat that pours out of the radiator when you're pushing the system vs not then? Obviously there's a considerable delta in the hot vs cold water? Or are you saying it's not actually as the full body of the water heats in such scenarios and the traversal through the loop/rad only drop it somewhat? I'm actually more shocked that there are no animations or analysis of this jet plane design if its so revolutionary. You have two dies contacting the cold plate pouring localized heat into them with some differential, the problem I'm trying to solve is how these inlet/outlet designs ensure inlet water goes to each die equally and out in a region or fashion that collectively grabs the hot water from both equally? Can this be done w/ any contact block design. Do you guys (with custom water blocks) see temperature differentials between dies when you're pushing your setups based on where the inlet/outlets are (cold->hot) side? It just seems moreso that this mechanism was meant for one central die : Inlet cold water on it and outlet it off die. With threadripper, it appears they didn't or couldn't resolve this fundamental ideology for two spread dies and thus just scaled everything. Problem is : You have inlet water pouring on one die whose heated water then traverse to the other and then captures some more heat and then out? Is this mitigated by water's capability to absorb heat efficiently whereby it still can just as efficiently absorb die #2's heat even in a heated state as good as it did die #1?
The water needs thought of as surface area. You use the surface area of the fins to increase the contact surface of the water, thereby helping transfer heat from one medium to the other. The water is in contact with the surface for fractions of a second before moving on. During that time, heat is transferred to the water. The newly heated water then travels to where it makes contact with the tubes in the radiator, transferring the heat from the water to the tubes. Those tubes transmit heat to the fin array where it sits until air moves past the fins, the contact transferring heat to the moving gas.

This is why when adding radiators, all you are doing is lowering the delta between the air and the water temps. You can only get that to a certain point, beyond which you get little gain. Yes, it adds liquid to the system, thereby adding surface contact to the heat plate, but the water will only pick up so much in that time. This is why they discuss equilibrium after 30 minutes and that, because it can only pick up and transfer out so much, that at some point you cannot do any more cooling with more radiators.

Now, when systems had higher flow restrictions and lower flow rates, the water was in contact for longer periods, resulting in higher water deltas between the inlet and outlet. That is when it had more impact. Modern systems with 1-2 gallon per minute flow rates and low flow restriction blocks change the equation.
 

ddogg

Golden Member
May 4, 2005
1,864
361
136
I have coolant sensors in my loops and my water temps increase by maybe 6C if I'm pushing the system. The heat you feel at the radiators is the heat being dissipated from the water as an entire body. But temps at different parts of the loop is less than a degree.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
Excellent. Thank you everyone for your replies. Learned a bit. Still want to see a jet plate animation but it seems it is a small efficiency boost that ensures you have better flow characteristics, less stagnation zones, and less destructive turbulence around the inlet/outlet areas?

but of course, nothing can beat raw increased surface area w.r.t to the fins. Also, the lionshare of the work is done by the flow rate/water's high heat capacitance? So jet plates are a small differentiator in the space..
 
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hasta666

Junior Member
Aug 18, 2017
17
8
81
TR's release was definitely a weak one. I'm still waiting for my MB (thanks Asrock) and I only could get my hands on 2 of the 4 DDR kits I ordered (thanks G.Skill). Plus I ended up with a Noctua cooler because nothing was available... Pretty frustrating. Hope everything will boot from scratch... in a week or two T_T
 

ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
Excellent. Thank you everyone for your replies. Learned a bit. Still want to see a jet plate animation but it seems it is a small efficiency boost that ensures you have better flow characteristics, less stagnation zones, and less destructive turbulence around the inlet/outlet areas?

but of course, nothing can beat raw increased surface area w.r.t to the fins. Also, the lionshare of the work is done by the flow rate/water's high heat capacitance? So jet plates are a small differentiator in the space..
You have to understand, higher flow means lower contact time. Lower contact time means less heat can be transferred between the cold plate and the water. That means the delta will be less because of less contact time. But, that also means more water contacts it in the same time period, stretching the heat out over more area. Ultimately, you get a better water temp equilibrium using this method than a low flow option, which can vary after each block significantly, which would make loop order important. So there is a lot more to it and it rehashes old arguments in the water cooling community not relevant here.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
1. Support AMD Ryzen Master 1.1.0.
2. Improve DDR4 compatibility. 128GB(8x16GB).

I just spent the whole day running memtest and rerunning stability test to proof 3466 .. Now a new bios that can possibly increase stability ...



F' it.. staying at Bios Vers 1.3. Someone here w/ the ram issue lemme know if this stabilizes 3600Mhz@16-16-16-36 or 16-18-18-38 .. time to farm out the labor
 

ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
1. Support AMD Ryzen Master 1.1.0.
2. Improve DDR4 compatibility. 128GB(8x16GB).

I just spent the whole day running memtest and rerunning stability test to proof 3466 .. Now a new bios that can possibly increase stability ...



F' it.. staying at Bios Vers 1.3. Someone here w/ the ram issue lemme know if this stabilizes 3600Mhz@16-16-16-36 or 16-18-18-38 .. time to farm out the labor
LOL!!! This is why you find a working stable one and wait for a couple months. Then you revalidate and wait 6-12 months if stable. Repeat.
 
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ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
LOL!!! This is why you find a working stable one and wait for a couple months. Then you revalidate and wait 6-12 months if stable. Repeat.
100% correct. My industry experience and knowledge as such sometimes gets suspended momentarily so that I may dream of a near term possibility but it is indeed time to lockdown, validate, and get to business . I can't wait to get this sucker ripping through threads... As I look at memtest finally about to complete it's like the calm before the thread storm :


To top it off, I have a little GPU treat coming in from AMD manana. She (vega 56) and muh nvidya card are about to get up close and comfy in the same chassis. Anyone who says I bat for any particular team is wrong .. even have a spicy intel rig close by
 
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ddogg

Golden Member
May 4, 2005
1,864
361
136
So I just realized that my bottom USB 3.0 ports don't seem to work in windows, but if I plug my USB drive and go to the BIOS it recognizes it. Do I need to turn something on? Only setting I've disabled is the HD Audio.
 

ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
So, I do not know why the USB drive is acting up.

But for those that cannot get 3600 stable, why don't you set all timings to Auto, but set the speed to 3600. Verify stability. Then tighten from there. It will be loose as hell to start, but literally, it should boot. Tried it last night with the new BIOS. 3733 still would not work, but 3600 found a boot solution first try!
 
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ddogg

Golden Member
May 4, 2005
1,864
361
136
So, I do not know why the USB drive is acting up.

But for those that cannot get 3600 stable, why don't you set all timings to Auto, but set the speed to 3600. Verify stability. Then tighten from there. It will be loose as hell to start, but literally, it should boot. Tried it last night with the new BIOS. 3733 still would not work, but 3600 found a boot solution first try!

What timings did you try at 3600?
 

ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
What timings did you try at 3600?
You misunderstand what I said. I said set the speed to 3600, then, under timings, set them ALL to AUTO! See what the board algorithm comes up with for timings. After that, verify that it is stable. Then tighten them.

I already said I had a boot solution prior, but it doesn't work for many here. So this is a way to figure it out without using my other process involving calculations.
I think the algorithm did like 16-25-25.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
96
I think the algorithm did like 16-25-25.
ewww, i like my timings tight !
For anyone wondering, 3466 16-16-16-36 was rock solid through a 7 hour memtest run, burnintest, and prime95 (2hours). I'm going with this setting.
 
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ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
ewww, i like my timings tight !
For anyone wondering, 3466 16-16-16-36 was rock solid through a 7 hour memtest run, burnintest, and prime95 (2hours). I'm going with this setting.
I didn't say stay with those, I said you have a stable boot solution (if it tests stable). Then you tighten it down. But you guys talked of boot loops and no boot solutions. This is how you can start.
 

ddogg

Golden Member
May 4, 2005
1,864
361
136
I'm happy with what I have right now to be honest. Got tired of tweaking haha. Putting the CPU now through some real workloads. Played a game of PUBG tonight while streaming on twitch with OBS and having 2 VMs running. It just chugs along with ease. I could probably encode videos while doing that and it still wouldn't break a sweat.
 
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