Three Cheers for FRANCE!

[imported_Shivetya]

In a meeting with security officials, Hortefeux reiterated President Nicolas Sarkozy?s goal of 25,000 expulsions by the end of 2007 - compared with 24,000 in 2006 - and set a year-end goal of 125,000 arrests for alleged illegal entry or illegal residence, a ministry statement said. The number of those already arrested was not immediately clear.


gotta hope a revolution in leadership happens here one day, throw the bums out and get someone who will not take the politically correct route...

 

[feralkid]

Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

 

[babylon5]

Illegal immigrant. Not the legal Immigrants who wait in line.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves

They need to leave

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves

They need to leave

By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves

They need to leave

By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?

That's a pretty flawed argument coming from somebody such as yourself... I am a little shocked. I didn't know deportation was a punishment for jaywalking first of all... and by YOUR logic, jaywalking is either as bad as illegally entering the country, or illegally entering the country is as harmless as jaywalking.

Edit: Would you say that dealing crack should be treated equal to speeding?

 

[babylon5]

For Rainsford's logic:

Evaristo Silva came to the U.S. illegally to chase the American Dream. Now a citizen and farm owner, he sees a need to restrict immigration.

By Miguel Bustillo
Times Staff Writer

June 21, 2006

Although Latino immigrants have been praised for creating a bustling small-business community that has invigorated the Yakima Valley, they have also been blamed for higher crime, as well as overcrowding in some of the city's oldest neighborhoods, where it is common for several immigrant families to share a single worn-out bungalow. Numerous street gangs roam Yakima, and their graffiti brands venerable buildings with crude monikers such as "Original Loko Boyz" and "Can't Stop Mexicans."

"If it keeps up like this, people won't fit here anymore," Silva said of illegal immigration. "Have you seen the graffiti in Yakima? They are having urban problems there, gang problems. It was never like that before."

Feds to bolster war on Illegal gangs

City Atty. Rocky Delgadillo and L.A. County Dist. Atty. Steve Cooley said they are partnering more closely with federal immigration officials and attorneys to identify the gang members for deportation, adding that illegal immigrants appear to make up a significant portion of the gang population.

LINK



Entire article available upon request.

 

[babylon5]

More logic for Rainsford:

A Hospital on Border Going Over the Edge

By David Kelly, The Los Angeles Times, Dateline Bisbee, Arizona, June 20, 2004

This feature story discusses the financial problems encountered by U.S. hospitals along the Mexico border that treat large numbers of illegal immigrants.

U.S. law requires that hospitals treat anyone and everyone who shows up in their emergency rooms. Kelly writes: "In a study last year by the U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition examined health care costs in 28 border counties in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California. It found they had lost $200 million treating illegal immigrants that year."

The 13-bed private community hospital in Copper Queen, Arizona, for example, has lost $800,000 in 2003 caring for migrants, and $500,000 the year before. The hospital lies in the "Naco corridor," where U.S. Border Patrol agents arrested 154,000 illegal immigrants in 2004.

Kelly writes: "Every day hundred of immigrants set off from Naco, Mexico, six miles from Bisbee, and head north through this ragged edge of Arizona. If they get hurt in the desert or while being smuggled in vans and trucks, they usually wind up at Copper Queen. The facility also take emergency transfers from Naco, which has no hospital."

Stephen Lindstrom, medical director at Copper Queen, is quoted as saying: "The numbers are incredible. They are constantly bringing in dehydrated and injured Mexicans, but I don't think we've ever got a dollar."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Should I keep citing articles? Or we just go around and around about the term "Illegal". How about we dont' call people who cross border to a country without going thru Immigration Department, Illegal? We call them, "Apple"? Apple Immigrants are harming a country economically

 

[CanOWorms]

I hope that there is some oversight over France's actions. Many European countries routeinly deport legitimate refugees as illegal immigrants, giving many of them a death sentence. Many refugees are also violently detained, resulting in death before they even leave Europe.

Anyone with knowledge of France's history of genocide should be concerned.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
In a meeting with security officials, Hortefeux reiterated President Nicolas Sarkozy?s goal of 25,000 expulsions by the end of 2007 - compared with 24,000 in 2006 - and set a year-end goal of 125,000 arrests for alleged illegal entry or illegal residence, a ministry statement said. The number of those already arrested was not immediately clear.


gotta hope a revolution in leadership happens here one day, throw the bums out and get someone who will not take the politically correct route...

Wow I never would have figured I would ever be typing a statement like this but Frances leadership has far more guts than the US leadership does.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

You pull this ignorant crap all the time, here, since you have trouble reading, I'll try and help you out.

I L L E G A L

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves

They need to leave

By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?

Stop being ridiculous, you pull the same "jaywalking is the same as entering a country illegally" card in every thread. You seem educated enough to be able to differentiate between the two, act like it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves

They need to leave

By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?

Stop being ridiculous, you pull the same "jaywalking is the same as entering a country illegally" card in every thread. You seem educated enough to be able to differentiate between the two, act like it.

I am not in the least suggesting the two are identical. But dahunan suggested the reason to deport illegals would be because they are criminals, that breaking the law AT ALL means they aren't worthy of being in the United States. If it's something specifically bad about breaking the law by immigrating, then say so, otherwise it's nothing but a circular argument.

If you find me posting this in a lot of illegal immigration threads, it's because I have yet to hear a sensible answer to my question. Breaking the law, by itself, does not seem a reasonable basis for any sort of opinion unless you can come up with a reason WHY breaking the law is bad. If an illegal immigrant is a murderer, by all means deport them. Not because they broke the law against murder, but because they are murdering people! This is not a court of law, a reasonable debate should not include "because it's illegal" as justification of why something is bad...the law should reflect morality and common sense, not the other way around.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: babylon5
More logic for Rainsford:

A Hospital on Border Going Over the Edge

By David Kelly, The Los Angeles Times, Dateline Bisbee, Arizona, June 20, 2004

This feature story discusses the financial problems encountered by U.S. hospitals along the Mexico border that treat large numbers of illegal immigrants.

U.S. law requires that hospitals treat anyone and everyone who shows up in their emergency rooms. Kelly writes: "In a study last year by the U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition examined health care costs in 28 border counties in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California. It found they had lost $200 million treating illegal immigrants that year."

The 13-bed private community hospital in Copper Queen, Arizona, for example, has lost $800,000 in 2003 caring for migrants, and $500,000 the year before. The hospital lies in the "Naco corridor," where U.S. Border Patrol agents arrested 154,000 illegal immigrants in 2004.

Kelly writes: "Every day hundred of immigrants set off from Naco, Mexico, six miles from Bisbee, and head north through this ragged edge of Arizona. If they get hurt in the desert or while being smuggled in vans and trucks, they usually wind up at Copper Queen. The facility also take emergency transfers from Naco, which has no hospital."

Stephen Lindstrom, medical director at Copper Queen, is quoted as saying: "The numbers are incredible. They are constantly bringing in dehydrated and injured Mexicans, but I don't think we've ever got a dollar."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Should I keep citing articles? Or we just go around and around about the term "Illegal". How about we dont' call people who cross border to a country without going thru Immigration Department, Illegal? We call them, "Apple"? Apple Immigrants are harming a country economically

Do I need to point out that the only reason they are costing that hospital money is BECAUSE we've declared them illegal and denied them both healthcare and a safe way to enter the country?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

Illegals breed criminals because they were criminals themselves

They need to leave

By that logic, we should deport jaywalkers. Do you have a better argument against illegal immigration than "it's illegal"?

That's a pretty flawed argument coming from somebody such as yourself... I am a little shocked. I didn't know deportation was a punishment for jaywalking first of all... and by YOUR logic, jaywalking is either as bad as illegally entering the country, or illegally entering the country is as harmless as jaywalking.

Edit: Would you say that dealing crack should be treated equal to speeding?

Not at all, but then, it wasn't me who suggested any sort of equality existed. I don't know where entering the country illegally lies on the scale of criminality, but your statement suggests it doesn't matter...anyone who breaks the law is a criminal, and criminals breed criminals, yadda, yadda, yadda, and if immigrants are criminals, they should be deported. By that logic, a LEGAL immigrant should be deported for breaking any law, no matter how trivial (remember, it makes them a criminal) and we should punish speeding exactly like we punish dealing crack.

OR we could take a more reasonable approach and judge criminal offenses based on their damage to society. Like, say, treat illegal immigration as a crime without demonizing illegal immigrants as being worse than Hitler because they broke the sacred law.

Edit: It might be helpful to note that I don't treat the law in general as the sacred cow a lot of my fellow citizens seem to feel it is. If something makes sense, I'm perfectly willing to follow the rules. If it violates my own personal sense of right and wrong, or just seems downright stupid, I'll probably do whatever the hell I feel like. This might seem pretty goofy to a lot of people, and maybe it is, but while there are lots of times in history where some more civil disobedience would have come in handy, there seem to be very few times when what a country REALLY needed was more slavish obedience to the law.

 

[dahunan]

OK.. should all nations remove their borders and no longer worry about legal citizenship?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dahunan
OK.. should all nations remove their borders and no longer worry about legal citizenship?

No, but clearly there is a lot of room for a middle ground between that and what we have now.

The reason I say "no" is that, while there is really not a lot of problem with that idea in theory, in practice it would create a lot of temporary "floods" of people from one area to the other...the countries at the higher end of the living scale would be overwhelmed. That said, I think it would be GOOD for the world as a whole for populations to be able to SMOOTHLY move wherever they wanted. But our current system is WAY too limited to allow this, and most other countries are far worse. Like I said, good middle ground...

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: feralkid
Got a vested interest in French politics, or do you just like to see immigrants' asses kicked?

That right there is the problem - the distinction is not made between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants, and it's a pretty significant distinction, one which gets people arrested.
For instance, a car. How did you acquire it? If you acquired it legally, by trading money, well then, enjoy your car. If you acquired it illegally, by stealing it, then you can go to jail.
Right there is the important difference: illegal acquisition versus legal acquisition. Same will immigrants: illegal vs legal.

Legal immigrants? Sure, come on in. Pay taxes, and enjoy your life. Illegals? Stop mooching, leave, and if you want to, come back in through the proper channels.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: dahunan
OK.. should all nations remove their borders and no longer worry about legal citizenship?

No, but clearly there is a lot of room for a middle ground between that and what we have now.

The reason I say "no" is that, while there is really not a lot of problem with that idea in theory, in practice it would create a lot of temporary "floods" of people from one area to the other...the countries at the higher end of the living scale would be overwhelmed. That said, I think it would be GOOD for the world as a whole for populations to be able to SMOOTHLY move wherever they wanted. But our current system is WAY too limited to allow this, and most other countries are far worse. Like I said, good middle ground...

The problem I have is so many people who are highly educated and from good social backgrounds want to come to America but are turned away .. BUT.. people who are from lower quality social backgrounds .. do not know any english, don't have a high school education and will freely break many .. .many laws come into this country everyday and then demand we pay them social welfare funds and change our street signs and local languages to fit theirs etc etc

I understand that some laws are unjust... but if it IS THE LAW .. then why should they feel OK to break it.

When they come here they break other laws in order to stay here too...

BTW, how is the illegal immigrant population in Maryland? right.. Canadians don't want to sneak into America

Go to LA and Texas and Colorado etc..Hear the stories about illegals and healthcare and flooding of schools and GANGBANGERS ...

Do the legal immigrants BECOME GANGBANGERS?

Do the legal immigrants HAVE 4 and 5 children and then become one parent families... so the children have no parenting and then JOIN GANGS

http://www.google.com/search?h...ang+members+california

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Not at all, but then, it wasn't me who suggested any sort of equality existed. I don't know where entering the country illegally lies on the scale of criminality, but your statement suggests it doesn't matter...anyone who breaks the law is a criminal, and criminals breed criminals, yadda, yadda, yadda, and if immigrants are criminals, they should be deported. By that logic, a LEGAL immigrant should be deported for breaking any law, no matter how trivial (remember, it makes them a criminal) and we should punish speeding exactly like we punish dealing crack.

OR we could take a more reasonable approach and judge criminal offenses based on their damage to society. Like, say, treat illegal immigration as a crime without demonizing illegal immigrants as being worse than Hitler because they broke the sacred law.

Edit: It might be helpful to note that I don't treat the law in general as the sacred cow a lot of my fellow citizens seem to feel it is. If something makes sense, I'm perfectly willing to follow the rules. If it violates my own personal sense of right and wrong, or just seems downright stupid, I'll probably do whatever the hell I feel like. This might seem pretty goofy to a lot of people, and maybe it is, but while there are lots of times in history where some more civil disobedience would have come in handy, there seem to be very few times when what a country REALLY needed was more slavish obedience to the law.

The argument that "it's illegal", IMO, would better articulated as "they are breaking the law in a way which completely undermines our legal system and circumvents the rule of law which is the foundation of society". In other words, IMO, they are breaking the law in such a way that basically invalidates our legal system. They came into this country saying "F*ck you America, you can't keep me out", and that is why I BELIEVE that this is so much worse than speeding or jaywalking or most other non-violent crimes.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: babylon5
More logic for Rainsford:

A Hospital on Border Going Over the Edge

By David Kelly, The Los Angeles Times, Dateline Bisbee, Arizona, June 20, 2004

This feature story discusses the financial problems encountered by U.S. hospitals along the Mexico border that treat large numbers of illegal immigrants.

U.S. law requires that hospitals treat anyone and everyone who shows up in their emergency rooms. Kelly writes: "In a study last year by the U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition examined health care costs in 28 border counties in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California. It found they had lost $200 million treating illegal immigrants that year."

The 13-bed private community hospital in Copper Queen, Arizona, for example, has lost $800,000 in 2003 caring for migrants, and $500,000 the year before. The hospital lies in the "Naco corridor," where U.S. Border Patrol agents arrested 154,000 illegal immigrants in 2004.

Kelly writes: "Every day hundred of immigrants set off from Naco, Mexico, six miles from Bisbee, and head north through this ragged edge of Arizona. If they get hurt in the desert or while being smuggled in vans and trucks, they usually wind up at Copper Queen. The facility also take emergency transfers from Naco, which has no hospital."

Stephen Lindstrom, medical director at Copper Queen, is quoted as saying: "The numbers are incredible. They are constantly bringing in dehydrated and injured Mexicans, but I don't think we've ever got a dollar."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Should I keep citing articles? Or we just go around and around about the term "Illegal". How about we dont' call people who cross border to a country without going thru Immigration Department, Illegal? We call them, "Apple"? Apple Immigrants are harming a country economically

Do I need to point out that the only reason they are costing that hospital money is BECAUSE we've declared them illegal and denied them both healthcare and a safe way to enter the country?

What is your idea of a "a safe way to enter the country"? Destroy INS border crossing station, so any Illegals can
walk/take a bus come to America? No checking at the border of any kind?

Let's say we let that happen. Assume they no longer get sick or die from sneaking thru desert, if they get sick and become
ill, and they go to a hospital, and a doctor attend to them, some even need repeat visit...who is going to pay for their
hospital cost? Do you suggest Illegals making low wages pay for their own Doctor's bill? How can they, we like these labors to come in and work cheap. Where are they going to get the money? Who will pay their hospital bill even if they
take a cab with A/C to come to USA, but get sick after? Who in reality will pay for their bill?

 

[imported_Infidel]

France is a glimpse into the future for our own country. We'll eventually be overburdened, unable to support basic infrastructure, with a disillusioned immigrant population prone to violence. I say we nip it in the bud now lest we become like France in the next few years. Immigrants these days are overly concerned with maintaining their identities and their cultures, not like the immigrants that founded this country and wanted to be Americans first and foremost. I'm tire of America being raped for her prosperity and not getting anything of value in return (value is subjective of course).

BTW, my theory on illegal amnesty in the US is that Bush and Neocons know that the first step in unifying the 3 North American countries is to resolve the border issues. Once the border is gone, nafta is in place, the big trans national highway in place, we'll be ready for the North American Union. It's got to be a Neocon fantasy, I can't imagine any true conservative would support a plan like that.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Infidel
France is a glimpse into the future for our own country. We'll eventually be overburdened, unable to support basic infrastructure, with a disillusioned immigrant population prone to violence. I say we nip it in the bud now lest we become like France in the next few years. Immigrants these days are overly concerned with maintaining their identities and their cultures, not like the immigrants that founded this country and wanted to be Americans first and foremost. I'm tire of America being raped for her prosperity and not getting anything of value in return (value is subjective of course).

BTW, my theory on illegal amnesty in the US is that Bush and Neocons know that the first step in unifying the 3 North American countries is to resolve the border issues. Once the border is gone, nafta is in place, the big trans national highway in place, we'll be ready for the North American Union. It's got to be a Neocon fantasy, I can't imagine any true conservative would support a plan like that.

Very well said!

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Do I need to point out that the only reason they are costing that hospital money is BECAUSE we've declared them illegal and denied them both healthcare and a safe way to enter the country?

That's another ridiculously flawed argument. We haven't in the least denied them a safe way to enter the country. Thousands of immigrants come here legally every year. The vehicle for legal entry is there... many just make the choice that they don't want to wait their turn, and they enter illegally.

You say that we declare them illegal, so they don't get health care? This is a rhetorical argument if I have ever heard one. So instead you advocate a system where anybody from anywhere in the world can come to America and regardless of their citizenship, and their financial ability to do so, reap the benefits of our health care system? You just advocated a US taxpayer funded world health care plan.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Infidel

Immigrants these days are overly concerned with maintaining their identities and their cultures, not like the immigrants that founded this country and wanted to be Americans first and foremost.

Maybe the first immigrants wanted to be Americans first (I doubt it though, I think that they identified with their religion first and foremost just like a recent poll regarding American Christians claims that many, 40-50%, identify themselves as Christian before American). It's debatable if immigrants primarily considers themselves Americans first and foremost , the idea of them keeping any of their identities or culture is not new. Italians, Germans, Irish, etc. in the US still retain a lot of their culture.

The US does not have a single distinct culture. That's what happens when culture belongs to the people and not the government.