Three teenage burglars shot dead in Oklahoma. An AR-15 was used

[HamburgerBoy]

More survivors means likely jail time for the shooter. For all we know the "words exchanged" were "shit we're sorry we will leave don't shoot." Dead kids tell no tales.

Pretty sure that if any of them survived and were still found with weapons and their blood inside of the house, their testimony would not be worth much (sans audio recording like the one dude that reveled in taking ten minutes to kill some girl execution-style).

If this happened in Connecticut rather than Oklahoma you might be correct though.

 

[momeNt]

More survivors means likely jail time for the shooter. For all we know the "words exchanged" were "shit we're sorry we will leave don't shoot." Dead kids tell no tales.

In the time between processing the fact that they broke into a house of an armed man, and being dead, OF COURSE they were sorry. They weren't sorry before though when they put on their masks, their brass knuckles, sharpened their knives, and broke through the sliding glass window, no, they were just thinking of how they were going to divvy up the score. That is where they went wrong. The victim owes them no obligation to not experience the consequence of their actions.

Being told sorry don't shoot, can also be enough time for them to draw their weapon and shoot him, once its in that situation, it is probably safest to just keep going until all the threats are put down.

Not that the situations are comparable, but here is someone letting their guard down and getting drawn on.

http://www.macon.com/news/local/crime/article134803664.html

The first person who drew wasn't justified in the first place, but being told "don't shoot" while being masked and armed with a weapon in somebody's home? I don't think you'll find much sympathy there.

 

[Sheep221]

America has stand ground/castle doctrine laws, has more guns, and homes get robbed much more often than elsewhere, I mean isn't that fucked up? What the hell they were thinking, is bunch of iPhones and whiskey bottle worth dying for ??

 

[dank69]

America has stand ground/castle doctrine laws, has more guns, and homes get robbed much more often than elsewhere, I mean isn't that fucked up? What the hell they were thinking, is bunch of iPhones and whiskey bottle worth dying for ??

You're aware that the human brain isn't developed enough to correctly assess risk until age 25, right? What were they thinking? They weren't is the answer.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

America has stand ground/castle doctrine laws, has more guns, and homes get robbed much more often than elsewhere, I mean isn't that fucked up? What the hell they were thinking, is bunch of iPhones and whiskey bottle worth dying for ??

Most crimes are done impulsively, afaik. They probably weren't thinking ahead by more than a few minutes.

 

[ksheets]

I really HATE the term Assault Rifle...its like referring to an American Staffordshire Terrier as a Pit Bull....

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Despite the attempt to demonize the AR-15, I see nothing wrong with the outcome in this incident.

 

[Jaskalas]

4 people, 3 acting as home invaders with prepared "gear" to commit said crime. Only the witnesses to that encounter could tell if opening fire was the right call. I'll defer to the judgement of the victim of their crime, until such time as contrary evidence proves otherwise in a court of law.

Why place your life and your home in the hands of criminals?
Answer: You don't. You do everything in your power to stop them.

 

[blankslate]

From what I have heard on this story it seems to be a justifiable shooting. The result is tragic for the parents of the home invaders but the shooter was in his home and defending himself.

As far as an AR-15 being called an assault rifle... well it's like people calling magazines clips. It's not going to change much.

but being the magazine fed, air cooled, gas operated firearm that it is.. with 30 round mags it is a weapon to consider if you intend an assault... or vigorous defense for that matter. It's not hard to learn to shoot at all or be fairly accurate with.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

It also gives increased credence to the Heller Ruling by the SCOTUS that the AR-15 is a useful and normal weapon for civilians to use in their own defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
This ruling is still being ignored in some Circuit Courts and all the more reason to hope this Republican Senate uses the nuclear option to get 7 conservative judges seated............. or at least Gorsuch.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

More survivors means likely jail time for the shooter. For all we know the "words exchanged" were "shit we're sorry we will leave don't shoot." Dead kids tell no tales.

Although I don't necessarily agree with it (the household having guns). I have to admit/agree that in this case, the overall outcome may have saved the householders.
It at least saved them from a horrible house invasion/burglary and may have saved them from injury or even being murdered.

Despite the attempt to demonize the AR-15, I see nothing wrong with the outcome in this incident.

Although I'm NOT a fan of normal householders having Ar-15's, and think the outcome is a bit extreme (3 deaths).
I agree that it has helped save innocent people, in this case.

 

[Sheep221]

You're aware that the human brain isn't developed enough to correctly assess risk until age 25, right? What were they thinking? They weren't is the answer.

Adult age is around 18, so everyone who cannot differ right from wrong by then, yea it's unfortunate.

 

[desura]

Bad things can happen during home invasions.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/2...sey-home-invasion-beating-gets-life-term.html

Meh, invade someone's home like that and you should risk death. Good riddance, I don't really care about their families. I hope that their families have to pay the homeowner for the property damage and for each individual bullet shot.

 

[MtnMan]

I still think overall, normal households should NOT have very powerful gun, such as AR-15 like, assault rifles.
But, on some occasions, such as this one, it may have actually helped save the householders from being harmed.

I guess in theory, a normal hand gun, would have equally well protected the household. But if the intruders had been armed with guns, the AR-15 like gun may have swung things in the householders favor.

You say that like it was a bad thing. These punks broke in, and paid the price. Try it in my house you may be welcomed by either an AR-15 or a 12GA shotgun with 00 buckshot, while the wife is shooting you with her handgun.

Do you even know that an AR-15 shoots a round no larger in diameter than a 22lr round? I suspect not.

Punks don't want to get shot, then stay the fuck out of my home.

 

[MtnMan]

You're aware that the human brain isn't developed enough to correctly assess risk until age 25, right? What were they thinking? They weren't is the answer.

So that is why we send 18 year old men into battle?

 

[MtnMan]

Although I don't necessarily agree with it (the household having guns). I have to admit/agree that in this case, the overall outcome may have saved the householders.
It at least saved them from a horrible house invasion/burglary and may have saved them from injury or even being murdered.



Although I'm NOT a fan of normal householders having Ar-15's, and think the outcome is a bit extreme (3 deaths).
I agree that it has helped save innocent people, in this case.

How about if it was 3 death, 1 bad guy and 2 innocent victims.... would that be 'better'? No, this one ended just fine.

 

[Darwin333]

Given the way things work in the US (guns wise), and the fact that the home invaders (burglars) came dressed all in black and were armed with a knife and stuff. I don't feel a lot of sympathy for them. Unfortunately they (the burglars) seem to have made sad/wrong decisions in how they want to lead their lives, crime wise. With tragic outcomes.
On the other hand, I think it would be better if countries had fewer or no guns available, for the general population.

So the homeowner would have been killed instead of the burglars?

 

[Darwin333]

My understanding is that if the householder(s) had only had normal hand guns. Then it would have been more likely that we would have seen more survivors.

I only had a limited number of characters for the title, and wanted to hint that the controversial AR-15 like gun, had been used.

EDIT:
You are right. I've updated the title, to hopefully minimize any confusion.

Shrug, a pump action shotgun with 00 buckshot would have made them just as dead but made way more of a mess.

 

[Darwin333]

From what I have heard on this story it seems to be a justifiable shooting. The result is tragic for the parents of the home invaders but the shooter was in his home and defending himself.

As far as an AR-15 being called an assault rifle... well it's like people calling magazines clips. It's not going to change much.

but being the magazine fed, air cooled, gas operated firearm that it is.. with 30 round mags it is a weapon to consider if you intend an assault... or vigorous defense for that matter. It's not hard to learn to shoot at all or be fairly accurate with.

Bah, I water cool my AR-15's making them super assault rifles.

 

[dank69]

So that is why we send 18 year old men into battle?

That is why they are gullible enough to pledge their life to do whatever their corrupt government tells them to do, yes.

 

[Svnla]

Don't want to be shot by the homeowner? DO NOT break into people homes. Very simple to understand.

As long as the perps were not shot in the back then it is a perfect example of Stand Your Ground Law.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

You say that like it was a bad thing. These punks broke in, and paid the price. Try it in my house you may be welcomed by either an AR-15 or a 12GA shotgun with 00 buckshot, while the wife is shooting you with her handgun.

Do you even know that an AR-15 shoots a round no larger in diameter than a 22lr round? I suspect not.

Punks don't want to get shot, then stay the fuck out of my home.

I'm not especially knowledgeable about guns.

In the UK, we usually have a fairly fast responding Police force, reasonably few home invasions and a tendency to be relatively safe, in our own homes.
But for various reasons, not all places are the same and/or have different ways of dealing with things.

In the UK, if my home was invaded in a similar way, I would fully legally have a right to use reasonable force to defend myself and to self defense. So the US is similar, except guns are much more common place.

How about if it was 3 death, 1 bad guy and 2 innocent victims.... would that be 'better'? No, this one ended just fine.

I agree with you. Assuming when/if the full story/details are released, nothing significantly changes.

 

[Svnla]

I'm not especially knowledgeable about guns.

<snip>

You don't say. From your previous post:

I still think overall, normal households should NOT have very powerful gun, such as AR-15 like, assault rifles.

Very powerful? AR-15? Really? And of course, the term "assault rifle".

Goodness. People do not know about guns should not speak about guns.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

So the homeowner would have been killed instead of the burglars?

I don't exactly know why/how. But here in the UK, we have very few guns and yet usually feel safe in our homes. Partly it is because we usually have fast responding (where necessary) and well equipped Police forces, crime rates are reasonably low and home invasions are usually very rare and (mostly) non-violent.
But I'm not exactly sure why there are these differences between the UK and the US.

But before someone jumps in to disagree. I agree that at times the UK also has bad/serious crimes including violent home invasions.

The problem (in my view) seems to be that allowing lots of guns into society, as well as helping defend householders, like in this case. Actually causes/allows many other gun related deaths, including mass shootings and worse terrorist acts, than if they had not had easy access to guns.

Shrug, a pump action shotgun with 00 buckshot would have made them just as dead but made way more of a mess.

I thought a similar thing, even before your post. I agree, it would probably have had a similar outcome.

===============================================================================

tl;dr
Although gun(s) helped in this case, I worry about all the other gun incidents where innocent lives were taken.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

You don't say. From your previous post:



Very powerful? AR-15? Really? And of course, the term "assault rifle".

Goodness. People do not know about guns should not speak about guns.

I've been perceiving the AR-15, as how the news media (especially in the UK, reporting), goes on and on about the AR-15.

The news reports are making out (in my perception), that it is suppose to be a military army (ONLY) weapon. It's a full assault rifle and switchable to be a fully automatic (sub-machine) gun.
More accurate and less dramatic reporting, seems to say that the full automatic mode is disabled or not present in the general public, non-army issued AR-15's.
A while back there were a number of mass shootings, where an AR-15 was blamed/used. Hence the dramatic news reports.