Question Thunderbolt / Enclosure

Tech Junky

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Jan 27, 2022
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So, I have a TB4 port on the laptop and ordered a TB4 AIC for the server.

Now, the problem is how to test / verify. The current enclosure works great but it's a C-10gbps that gets full 1GB/s.

Well, that's nice and all but, TB3/4 should hit ~2GB/s+ and require different HW.

I would prefer to forego the TB3 option as it's rated for 22gbps and TB4 is 32gbps and supposed to roll in USB support w/o a bridge chip.

Also, TB4 should bring prices down w/o the royalty to Intel for licensing / certification.

The next thing coming to mind is whether or not OEM's will be adding Gen4 support to max out the theoretical 5GB/s possible as TB3 uses a Gen3 interface on the board.

I've been down the rabbit hole looking at enclosures and the best I can tell is there's 2 types. TB only and TB+USB-10gbps. Obviously USB is important for using it on other systems that don't have TB.

The speed difference between enclosures seems more related to the drive being used rather than a technical limitation of the controller. Though I've seen plenty of OWC enclosures using 6th gen TB controllers while more recent using the prior 7th gen controller. Seems in ~2 years time since the current 8th gen controller has been released by Intel no one has made a product yet and on the USB4 side ASM4242 likely won't be released until the fall.

I guess since up until recently TB has been mostly a MAC enthusiast / needed option since they typically can't crack open a case and add anything themselves. Hopefully being more open sourced and deployed on more PC based systems things will change where the pricing for an enclosure drops from ~$130 average down to USB like prices closer to $50. I paid $50 for the TB4 AIC used off Amazon figuring some idiot couldn't figure out how to cable it and turn on the features int he bios to make it work or expected it to exceed the speed of whatever they were trying to connect to it. Which leads to another issue I have with TB is the inconsistency of the connections needed varies by which OEM makes the card / MOBO. Asus uses a 14-pin / Gigabyte 5+3 pin / ASRock 5-pin. So,, I have an ASR MOBO w/ a 5-pin but the market is dry for ASR AIC's and they only provide 27W of power on the ports which is kind of dumb. The card I have enroute though is the GB Maple Ridge with the 2 x 6 pin power ports to provide 100W of PD. I dug through everything I could to figure out what the addition 3-pin is used for and couldn't find any documentation on it anywhere. Maybe it's a legacy connection being used for some security protocol or hot-plug or ? *shrug*

Long story short.... any recommendations on enclosures? Any insider info on TB4? USB4 specs beyond bundling USB + TB into the same connector / waiving the royalty fee?
 

Tech Junky

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Card arrived for the 2nd attempt since the first one got cancelled due to inventory aka the seller sold it before Amazon could remove the listing. The card arrive all sealed up w/ all cables included. The static bag had a smudge where you could see where it was opened and then resealed which is fine.

Cracked the PC case and added the USB / 5-in TB / 2 x 6-pin PCIE PSU leads for 100W PD and then closed things up.

Had to edit some things to get the network working again since the IF numbers change with different PCI slots being populated.

Rebooted and spotted the TB4 come up in the dmesg scrolling across the screen.

lspci shows the card / interfaces working as they should be. Still need to get an enclosure to test them for max speeds but, all appears to be working. I expected to have to change something in the BIOS but, didn't spot anything relevant to TB4 but will check the manual later for any insights.

Code:
0c:00.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Thunderbolt 4 Bridge [Maple Ridge 4C 2020] (rev 02)
0d:00.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Thunderbolt 4 Bridge [Maple Ridge 4C 2020] (rev 02)
0d:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Thunderbolt 4 Bridge [Maple Ridge 4C 2020] (rev 02)
0d:02.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Thunderbolt 4 Bridge [Maple Ridge 4C 2020] (rev 02)
0d:03.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Thunderbolt 4 Bridge [Maple Ridge 4C 2020] (rev 02)
0e:00.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation Thunderbolt 4 NHI [Maple Ridge 4C 2020]
10:00.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation Thunderbolt 4 USB Controller [Maple Ridge 4C 2020]

dmesg | grep -i Thunderbolt
[    0.834411] ACPI: bus type thunderbolt registered
[    0.834439] thunderbolt 0000:0e:00.0: enabling device (0000 -> 0002)
 

Tech Junky

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Been digging around on the subject at hand and noticing some things.

JHL6xxx - only do TB3 and aren't all that fast
JHL7440 - seems be the release everyone is using for the TB side and on the USB side JMS583/RTL9210/B
JHL8440 - is the latest Goshen Ridge / Maple Ridge peripheral release that's only mentioned with some indiegogo product that's past it's release date by a year or two now

So, I reached out to Acasis because they're hyped up all of the Mac sites as being the best option to confirm their controllers because it's not listed anywhere and this what they responded with:

TBU401 and TBU405 use same dual chip. i.e. thunderbolt: JHL7440, USB: RTL9210B


I pinged the originally because I had some thoughts on why they would be releasing a new model (405) in hopes it might be a controller update and not just putting lipstick on a pig. I've also been considering the Konyead below in the capture because it's immediately available within a couple of days w/ Prime. Ultimately though I think the TBu401 is probably the best option unless TB4 controller based options are being released in the near future. USB ASM controllers coming out this fall around the release of Intel/AMD new options.


 
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Tech Junky

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Ordered the TBU401 for the tool free access to swap drives as needed quicker. The Acasis website is a bit interesting as sometimes it wouldn't take the discount for for $100 off (TBU401-10) or (TBU405-10) depending on the model but, it could just be me w/ pihole / chrome blocking things at the time.

US shipping for $6 isn't too bad either w/ 2-5 day delivery / no sales tax. Will have to see if there's a FTX fee though since I think their PayPal account is based out of Hong Kong, Total was $124.99 shipped. This beats dealing with Amazon UK w/ expedited shipping ~$140 w/ tax or the gouging from a US seller at $229 w/o tax which is now showing out of stock anyway.

The Konyead is still appealing though as a quick ship @ ~$140 w/ tax on Amazon.

Everything I came across with Acasis though indicates it should perform well and very little hassle compared to the other options. Using the RTL9210B for USB is familiar territory and nothing but glowing reviews across different sites / users. The JMS583 as I've tested in the past draws critical reviews worse than my testing experience with the controller. When I did my testing I tried out the JMS / VL / RTL versions and JMS/VL worked but underperformed considerably while the RTL was hitting 800's consistently. Not quite as high as some tests show with different drives but, good enough for a $100 1TB drive.

It should be interesting to see what this new enclosure can do as I have a few different drives I can test with Gen3 & 4 options to see how much bandwidth it unlocks. A couple of Phison based options and a SN850 as my primary drive currently. I'm also considering an additional drive for the enclosure being a SN770 2TB which shows some reasonable numbers in reviews and has pretty good numbers for a mid tier drive for $200. It should pair nicely with the enclosure seeing as though TB speeds are hobbled to 3GB/s there's no need to go much higher up the ladder for specs.

Cheaper option by $20 would be the SN570 or going primo SN850 extra $40.

Either way $125 for the enclosure is a steal when the average price right now is hovering around $170
 

Tech Junky

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This is interesting buying from acasis.com and shipping with Amazon even through they don't have stock listed on Amazon for either TB enclosure. And..... no tracking on Amazon even with a tracking ID being provided.

https://track.amazon.com/ -- add the shipping ID

Never have I ever had a shipment from Amazon w/o ordering through Amazon so this is a bit interesting seeing the logistics from an outside source / order using Amazon as the carrier / delivered by Amazon similar to Prime.
 

Tech Junky

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Did some initial testing with 3 drives - BPX Pro 1TB / PNT CS3030 (Phison - E12 based) / SN850

Results are interesting but, still want to up my game with higher Write speeds to fully utilize the drive to make it worthwhile compared to USB-10gbps.



Laptop ENC





Server Enclosure - BPX





Server Enclosure - PNY




Server Enclosure SN850




Internal Tests Laptop



 
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Tech Junky

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Had picked up a couple of these a year ago for some additional cables w/ potentially TB in mind in the future but the focus was 10gbps /100W.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B093FQSYLB - $13 / 2.6ft where most TB cables are short / $20

Testing them in comparison with the TB3 cable that came with the enclosure and the speeds look just as good for the read vs the slower USB cable that tops out at 20gbps. The Write speeds though are faster with the Nekteck USB cable. Looks like NT released a TB 20gbps certified cable to replace the original w/ the TB stamp.

Looks like more cables are on the horizon for TB to boost those Write speeds + a new drive to speed things up.



 

Tech Junky

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So, I found some more concrete speed reviews... of course this is probably where I should have looked first.

ReviewsRW
SK Hynix Gold P3124502250
SN770 27502690
Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.026002700
Samsung 980 Pro 27002700
SN750up to 2000up to 2000
Pioneer 2TB (PS5012-E12)17002000
SN7502384.41645.3
SN75024502250

The SN770 it is then when I spot a good deal on the drive. Right now it's sitting at $200 New for a 2TB
 

Tech Junky

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TBC..

I have different cables coming tomorrow for testing and ordered a pair of 1TB SN770 drives which should max out the connection for more complete testing to the upper threshold of the speeds symmetrically.

I went 1TB on the SN770's for replacing the PNY in the laptop with something hopefully better based on test results. While the TBW's are 600 for 1TB and 1200 for the 2TB I don't tend to hang onto drives long enough to hit those kind of numbers for them to really matter.
 

Tech Junky

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Got the drives and did some more testing to confirm the speed issue was a bottleneck on the drives being tested.




Temps25C/70C29C/80C
SN770-443SN770-211
BPX Pro << SN850CDM 16GBx5SN770 << SN850CDM 16GBx5SN770 << SN850CDM 16GBx5
W MB/sR/W GB/sW GB/sR/W GB/sW GB/sR/W GB/s
Acasis (TB3)9613x1.82.63.1x2.8
Anker (TB3)9213x1.72.63.1x2.8
Cable Matters (TB4)9983x1.72.63.1x2.8
OWC (TB4)9463.1x1.82.63.1x2.62.63.1x2.7
Sniokco (USB4)9703.1x1.82.43.1x2.82.43.1x2.8
Avg Write Extended450-500
SN770-443 Internal3.5x3.4
HWINFO not workinginternally

Testing across 5 different cables all similar. Internal speed of course 400-600MB/s faster in a Gen3 x4 slot for R/W. Even the USB4 cable I've had for a year before getting the TB enclosure worked just fine as it should based on specs.
 

Tech Junky

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This has to be the cheapest cable in terms of costs when it comes to this testing though. @ $9.99





Of course with PD coming up in a day or two everyone jacks up their listing price for when the discount hammer falls to generate traffic / sales. I might pick a couple more of these up when they drop in price again.
 
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