Can you say the same about Nvidia when they've sent binned chips to reviews like these ~Double standards I guess are a common feature of Nvidia's viral marketing & also widely practiced by their supportersHTML:www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_780_Ti/30.html
I also found this interesting from Kyle @ [H]
So, when we compare performance we run the 290X in quiet mode, but when we compare noise we run the 290X in uber mode. Just like it reminds Kyle of posters on [H], it also reminds me of Ryan's review of the 290. nVidia is working every angle they can to plant seeds.
blackened23
It seems to me AMD and NVIDIA have a much better understanding of how the enthusiast $400+ market works and what it responds to than either of us.
From what I see the enthusiast market responds to Performance and Price/Performance.
If that wasn't the case, NVIDIA with a graphics card less noisier that consumed less power and came with a three AAA game bundle wouldn't have dropped the price of the GTX 780 by $150.
It doesn't, but:Where does it say its a binned chip?...or are you just guess and spreading FUD?
(not going to post link, time stamp @34:40)"I don't know if I got just a bad [290x)] sample [...], but one thing I will say is when nvidia send samples out to the press, they were so [profanity] blatently cherry-picked its unbelievable [...] so I'm little bit underwhelmed that AMD have not been [..] this stuff aswell"
Great silicon but crappy cooling? I don't get who would want this stock cooler. You gotta either wait for custom boards or replace the cooler with a custom one immediately.
As for copying Nvidia's design, I'm not sure they can do that. Nvidia almost certainly doesn't have a patent on the functional aspects of the blower (there's nothing new or innovative about that) but they may well have a design patent on it, given the amount of time and effort they put into development.
What materials are they using?
Is amd's aluminum? Nvidia Copper?
I would also imagine there are some heatpipes hiding inside the nvidia cooler.
It doesn't, but:
[repost of http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35699366&postcount=58]
On the matter of review samples:
One reviewer said in his youtube 290X cooler (yes, cooler - because that was the main point of review) video review, this:
Quote:
(not going to post link, time stamp @34:40)
No heat pipes, they are both vapor chamber coolers. On the Nvidia card, notice the rear of the card with the aluminum fins? It intakes air from the rear whereas the Radeon only pulls from the fan. The air intake looking holes are actually fake on the 290x. Nvidia uses a Delta blower fan which has a ton of CFM. If AMD had a rear intake on the fan, it may have reduced temperatures about 5-10c depending on your intake fan situation.
And why would AMD care about copying the ornamentation? The function is what they need, and if the functional elements aren't patented, they should use it.
A densely-packed fin arrangement can provide very effective cooling, but only with high static pressure from the fans (which usually translates to high RPM and lots of noise). This is why you'll often see this in server heatsinks: saving space is important, and no one cares how much noise the fans make because they are in an isolated room somewhere.
Having a wider fin spacing means theoretical maximum cooling is less, but you can get decent results with low airflow. This is why you usually see wide fin spacing on products designed for quiet, passive/semi-passive cooling, like the Thermalright Macho and the Arctic Accelero S1 Plus.
Nvidia seems to have calculated that wider fin spacing would provide enough cooling for their ~250W cards while allowing for lower airflow that keeps noise levels down. For whatever reason, AMD went with a more tightly-packed fin arrangement, which means the fan has to spin at higher speeds to attain the static pressure needed to blow the hot air out.
The Nvidia blower looks to be about the same diameter, but is taller (as are the corresponding heatsink fins). This is probably hurting AMD's reference design a lot. Nvidia can get the same airflow at lower RPM.
I'm not sure Nvidia is gaining anything in terms of performance by using a metal blower instead of plastic (though it unquestionably looks better). Virtually all case and CPU fans, even premium ones, are made out of plastic, and this works fine. The same goes for the shroud: switching to metal/plexiglass is an aesthetic design win, but probably doesn't affect performance.
Could AMD fix this cheaply? Who knows. The shroud and blower impeller are probably injection molded, and creating new molds is not cheap at all.
As for copying Nvidia's design, I'm not sure they can do that. Nvidia almost certainly doesn't have a patent on the functional aspects of the blower (there's nothing new or innovative about that) but they may well have a design patent on it, given the amount of time and effort they put into development. Honestly, AMD would probably be better off just making a deal with one of its AIB partners to use their cooler in the reference design. Any of the third-party coolers (with the possible exception of XFX) are better than what AMD is cranking out.
Nice post. I really want AMD to look into their reference blower designs next time around because alot of people do prefer this type of cooler. It makes the overall product that much more attractive imo. Im sure the R290 would still be an attractive buy if it was priced at $449 with a much capable cooler.
One thing that is somewhat surprising to me atleast is that no one yet has attempted to do a three slot "blower type" solution!
HIS does a 2+ slot blower. Works pretty well. Much quieter and improves cooling by ~12°C over the reference cooler. Their dual axial fan design is better though.
HIS does a 2+ slot blower. Works pretty well. Much quieter and improves cooling by ~12°C over the reference cooler. Their dual axial fan design is better though.
After reading through the page below and the one following it describing how NVidia achieved the acoustics with its current cards, you will realize that just copying the design wouldn't serve any purpose unless AMD used all the exact same components and laid them out exactly the same on the PCB.
My Personal Crusade: Acoustics
Improving the ergonomics as NVidia has takes significant engineering and testing. To the point that NVidia hired people specifically to address these issues. Something AMD is clearly not interested in investing in, instead choosing to let AIB makers foot the bill. Neither side is really right or wrong, but it is should be obvious why NVidia products cost more.
One thing that would concern me about that cooler is that the VRM's look completely bare.
One thing that would concern me about that cooler is that the VRM's look completely bare.
According to hardware.fr the VRMs are much cooler
on the AMD ref than in the 780ti.
Arcording to hardware.fr, the 290X reaches 98.6C on their thermal cam. Ouch! Its obvious what card is poorly designed, and its not the 780ti. And hot VRMs is nothing new, remember 125C on HD4xxx and HD2xxx? And 100C+ on HD6xxx?
LOL, hearsay from 1 reviewer....you must be right!
LOL, hearsay from 1 reviewer....you must be right!
Arcording to hardware.fr, the 290X reaches 98.6C on their thermal cam. Ouch! Its obvious what card is poorly designed, and its not the 780ti. And hot VRMs is nothing new, remember 125C on HD4xxx and HD2xxx? And 100C+ on HD6xxx?